[PeterfromNorth]

Paris approach with the Boulevard Périphérique (its ring road basically), demonstrates what can be done with some creative thinking. They've built a tunnel and put a lake on top in one section. That's obviously never going to happen in Leeds, but busy roads don't need to be barriers. or you drop everything to the street level and have a road like the Avenues in New York.

 

[Leeds No.1]

The problem with the IRR here is that it's pretty much the best way to get across the city at the moment. There's no decent Outer Ring Road and the other side of the IRR is at-grade with many traffic lights. No extensive mass transit seems to be coming any time soon and so would it be particularly wise to downgrade one of the better pieces of transport infrastructure in the city with no alternative?

 

[seetheworldgoby]

I agree it's funny how a railway viaduct for example would be seen as positive but a road is a no no. I think a four lane at grade road would be awful. Here's a photo of hatch in Manchester it shows how you can weave a functioning elevated road into the city. I do wonder if electric cars will make elevated highways more attractive due to reduced noise and air pollution.

 

[Rob]

Here are some new images of the revised City Reach scheme.

It looks to be a massive and comprehensive plan which would totally transform this now rather run down A65 approach into Leeds (also with the adjacent Tannery proposal). Very ambitious, but as usual it is a case of will it actually happen?

Full 2 Sep 2021 presentation slides here -
https://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/documents/b27513/City Plans Panel - 2nd September 2021 - Presentation Slides 02nd-Sep-2021 13.30 City Plans Panel.pdf?T=9

Overall scheme, with complete Otter Island development in the foreground

Proposed view from Kirkstall Road

 

[PeterfromNorth]

I'm really interested to see how this turns out, but my gut instinct is there is still too much wasted space, moving two/three of the buildings or making others higher, could have created a fantastic pocket park right by the water.

 

[Subliving]

Looks to me like there is a park by the water?

Subliving.

 

[tigerman]

Looks to me like there is a park by the water?

Subliving.

Yes there looks to be plenty of landscaping going down to the river - I suppose there is always a balance to strike in these matters though.

 

[PeterfromNorth]

Looks to me like there is a park by the water?

Subliving.

I'm probably splitting hairs, but I just think with some realignments of buildings it could have looked more like a pocket park than a strip of park along the water. The green corridors could turn out great for liveability for residents rather than overlooking Kirkstall Rd.

 

[Ttebroc]

Thumbs up for initial proposals for massive mixed use development | TheBusinessDesk.com

Developer wants to construct more than 1,400 homes and 362 student rooms on 4.9 hectare site

www.thebusinessdesk.com

"Panel members broadly welcomed the proposals, and particularly praised the amount of land allocated for green space.

But councillors Caroline Gruen and Elizabeth Nash said they would like to see some more variety in the design of the buildings. Cllr Nash said the uniformity of the accommodation as it is currently planned reminded her of Soviet era apartment blocks."

 

[roundhayparker]

I've asked this before but how does one influence a council plans panel?
How do the powers that be determine what makes the panel fit for purpose? Or not as the case may be? I don't think it is an exaggeration to suggest there are people on ours, who present a real risk of throttling the growth of this city.

Back to the scheme, I'm struggling to see how you could fail to like this!

 

[Alexi Lalas]

Thumbs up for initial proposals for massive mixed use development | TheBusinessDesk.com

Developer wants to construct more than 1,400 homes and 362 student rooms on 4.9 hectare site

www.thebusinessdesk.com

"Panel members broadly welcomed the proposals, and particularly praised the amount of land allocated for green space.

But councillors Caroline Gruen and Elizabeth Nash said they would like to see some more variety in the design of the buildings. Cllr Nash said the uniformity of the accommodation as it is currently planned reminded her of Soviet era apartment blocks."

I’ve never really understood why they seem to have so much authority, though I know they can only really reject something with good reason. Comparing the plans to Soviet blocks is just opinion though, I personally like the uniformity though I like Soviet blocks. But I’d this really grounds to reject a proposal?

 

[Rob]

They overwhelmingly loved this proposal, some were saying when can you start, so this will almost certainly be approved when an application comes in.

 

[Ttebroc]

I’ve never really understood why they seem to have so much authority, though I know they can only really reject something with good reason. Comparing the plans to Soviet blocks is just opinion though, I personally like the uniformity though I like Soviet blocks. But I’d this really grounds to reject a proposal?

They can, if they so choose, refuse an application for completely unacceptable reasons. There have been several examples in the past year or so (outside Leeds) of developers winning appeals and full costs for applications which were refused by committees for purely political reasons not related to planning or due to dubious 'design' issues.

Planning officers obviously strongly advise them how they should look at applications but you will notice on a lot of these Panel meetings that councillors make rash comments like 'officers shouldn't be telling us what to do or how to vote', and I sometimes think they like disagreeing with them for the sake of feeling powerful.

 

[shed7]

They can, if they so choose, refuse an application for completely unacceptable reasons. There have been several examples in the past year or so (outside Leeds) of developers winning appeals and full costs for applications which were refused by committees for purely political reasons not related to planning or due to dubious 'design' issues.

Planning officers obviously strongly advise them how they should look at applications but you will notice on a lot of these Panel meetings that councillors make rash comments like 'officers shouldn't be telling us what to do or how to vote', and I sometimes think they like disagreeing with them for the sake of feeling powerful.

Ttebroc, did the developers of the former Neighbour BTR scheme you were involved appeal?

 

[tomleeds]

Thumbs up for initial proposals for massive mixed use development | TheBusinessDesk.com

Developer wants to construct more than 1,400 homes and 362 student rooms on 4.9 hectare site

www.thebusinessdesk.com

"Panel members broadly welcomed the proposals, and particularly praised the amount of land allocated for green space.

But councillors Caroline Gruen and Elizabeth Nash said they would like to see some more variety in the design of the buildings. Cllr Nash said the uniformity of the accommodation as it is currently planned reminded her of Soviet era apartment blocks."

Surely they're supposed to give constructive criticism? Comments like this are just rude.

I think it's really disrespectful to the architects who will have put a lot of time and effort into this.

 

[erewhon]

Surely they're supposed to give constructive criticism? Comments like this are just rude.

I think it's really disrespectful to the architects who will have put a lot of time and effort into this.

I quite agree with you and would add that it’s also bloody rude and disrespectful not to have read the papers that were sent out before the meeting. The few times I’ve watched panel meetings, everyone’s time was wasted by members asking questions they would have know the answers to if they’d bothered to prepare properly for the meeting.

 

[Rob]

It was a rude comment, I'm sure the room went quiet in shock, and some little comments were made after by other members saying its not like communist housing.

 

[roundhayparker]

I quite agree with you and would add that it’s also bloody rude and disrespectful not to have read the papers that were sent out before the meeting. The few times I’ve watched panel meetings, everyone’s time was wasted by members asking questions they would have know the answers to if they’d bothered to prepare properly for the meeting.

So in other words they're a bit of a shower. Lacking any objectivity or acknowledged standards of rigour, instead applying low or even slovenly levels of basic professionalism. Comparable to a neighbourhood watch group if you will

 

[erewhon]

So in other words they're a bit of a shower. Lacking any objectivity or acknowledged standards of rigour, instead applying low or even slovenly levels of basic professionalism. Comparable to a neighbourhood watch group if you will

I know the remuneration paid to most councillors would not enable them to resign their day jobs to do this full-time so we must bear that in mind. But if you put yourself forward as a councillor to sit on the plans panel, you must be prepared to put in the time and effort to justify your place there.

After I left university I worked for a company as a very junior errand boy. But it meant I had to attend board meetings to fetch and carry for them. If board members asked the kind of daft questions that some members of the plans panel ask, they would get slapped down by the chair. And one persistent offender got a very public bollocking after the meeting.

I’d love to see that principle applied here.

 

[shed7]

21/08190/FU | Hybrid planning application for a phased development; full permission for demolition of existing buildings and structures, site remediation, regrading and preparatory works, erection of four residential buildings (use class C3), townhouses (use class C3 ) and student accommodation (sui generis) with ground floor and other uses comprising any or all of retail, commercial, community, health, cultural and leisure (use classes E, F1 and/or F2) and associated means of access, parking, landscaping, associated infrastructure works and construction of a new river wall and bridge crossing; outline permission, to be implemented in phases, for mixed use development comprising residential use (use class C3); and other uses including all or some of the following: retail, leisure, commercial, health, cultural and community uses (use classes E, F1 and / or F2); car parking, new public spaces; hard and soft landscaping; cycle parking; access; servicing; and other associated infrastructure and engineering works | 10 - 81 Kirkstall Road Burley Leeds LS3 1LH

21/08190/FU | Hybrid planning application for a phased development; full permission for demolition of existing buildings and structures, site remediation, regrading and preparatory works, erection of four residential buildings (use class C3), townhouses (use class C3 ) and student accommodation (sui generis) with ground floor and other uses comprising any or all of retail, commercial, community, health, cultural and leisure (use classes E, F1 and/or F2) and associated means of access, parking, landscaping, associated infrastructure works and construction of a new river wall and bridge crossing; outline permission, to be implemented in phases, for mixed use development comprising residential use (use class C3); and other uses including all or some of the following: retail, leisure, commercial, health, cultural and community uses (use classes E, F1 and / or F2); car parking, new public spaces; hard and soft landscaping; cycle parking; access; servicing; and other associated infrastructure and engineering works | 10 - 81 Kirkstall Road Burley Leeds LS3 1LH

publicaccess.leeds.gov.uk

Planning application is in, its a hybrid application part detailed, part outline.