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Environmental Busybody
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10,393 Posts
The immigration policy is as much about economics as human rights. If your own population stops producing consumers, we just import some.
 

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Environmental Busybody
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10,393 Posts
As to looking after old people argument of population growth, look at the system we have now, the result of the most prosperous few decades of our history, we have money for big cars and houses, but supposedly can't afford to pay people to look after old people well. Letting people at the bottom of the employment pecking order to pick up the slack. Not to mention other social issues.
 

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Banned
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1,176 Posts
Do you think progress at the pace we have will magically happen by itself without the right conditions? We need more growth and progress, not less. Consumption and growth drive need, which drives innovation. There’s a reason why companies like SpaceX are the first private enterprise to send people into space and it’s not because we limited growth and population.
 

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certains mots étrangers
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637 Posts
I think we need both and why should they be mutually exclusive? Why can’t we pay decent cash to healthcare workers who are involved in non-scaleable vocations (hence better to be in the public sector) to look after the marginalized while at the same time allow private enterprise to innovate, drive growth and thrive? @Kelli @Danukoz
 

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Suspicious observers doesn't post factual information. In fact if you read these papers a lot of them reference and understand anthropogenic warming due to CO2. Furthermore many of the papers are only discussing localised climate, not future GLOBAL climate.
A video on 'top 10 climate studies' should be enough of a give away to his credibility. No such thing.

Oh and Suspicious observers TOP NUMBER 6 paper is not published in a respected journal, and a quick google search of the paper title will show you all the flaws in that paper.
He is not a good source of information when talking about earths climate, which is more than the sun.
 

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939 Posts
As to looking after old people argument of population growth, look at the system we have now, the result of the most prosperous few decades of our history, we have money for big cars and houses, but supposedly can't afford to pay people to look after old people well. Letting people at the bottom of the employment pecking order to pick up the slack. Not to mention other social issues.
Kelli, not everyone should be paid a 6 figure salary, though I would agree that client facing workers should be paid much more than those in the back office, particularly nurses
 

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546 Posts
Suspicious observers doesn't post factual information. In fact if you read these papers a lot of them reference and understand anthropogenic warming due to CO2. Furthermore many of the papers are only discussing localised climate, not future GLOBAL climate.
A video on 'top 10 climate studies' should be enough of a give away to his credibility. No such thing.

Oh and Suspicious observers TOP NUMBER 6 paper is not published in a respected journal, and a quick google search of the paper title will show you all the flaws in that paper.
He is not a good source of information when talking about earths climate, which is more than the sun.
#6 was written by a person who has 54 publications to their name, who is the senior researcher at Stanford university, which is ranked 3rd globally, you discredit the contents of a paper because of where it was published, im sorry but i do not share your ability to so easily write off the validity when its written by someone with THAT MUCH credibility.

(USING #6)
it contradicts your statement "if you read these papers a lot of them reference and understand anthropogenic warming due to CO2", on the contrary it shows cause to discredit and be skeptical of any person who states to understand 'the science' of anthropogenic warming due to GHG,due to the innacurate modelling...

Below are some snipets from the paper..

Propagation of Error and the Reliability of Global Air Temperature Projections
It is the first time that global air temperature projections have been scrutinised by means of propagation of model calibration error using mathematical equations and probability.

It shows that the air temperature projections of advanced climate models are just linear extrapolations of fractional GHG forcing.It proved that Long-wave cloud forcing error is ±114 × larger than the annual average increase in green house gass forcing. A direct Quote from the paper states ''This fact alone makes any possible global effect of anthropogenic CO2emissions invisible to climate models/unable to be accurately measured''.

Any impact from GHGs will always be lost within the uncertainty interval. Even the most advanced climate models exhibit poor energy resolution and very large projection uncertainties.

The unavoidable conclusion is that a temperature signal from anthropogenic CO2 emissions (if any) cannot have been, nor presently can be, evidenced in climate observables.
Propagation of Error and the Reliability of Global Air Temperature Projections
 

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Environmental Busybody
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10,393 Posts
Because he's the measure of all truths?

You're just confirming that mindset, that a certain subset of people would do or say anything to avoid responsibility.
 

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So research into the secrets of the Universe and exploring outside our little fragile bio-dome is avoiding responsibility? Ok then... the reality is the space race and all that goes with it, has given us more opportunities and technologies than ever before to actually use those discoveries for the betterment of everyone. I'm kind of perplexed where you are coming from with this. It's like a parable, the way you express yourself, sometimes.
 

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1,176 Posts
Going into space is just another way to avoid facing responsibility.
It’s hard to understand what you actually want for society, you never offer any practical solutions, it’s just complaints and obtuse comments and the expectation of utopia. But going by some of the positions you take on issues it actually sounds like dystopia to me.

Regarding space travel, it’s not avoiding responsibility at all. We should aim to go to other planets. It’s actually responsible to go to other planets.

And if there are almost infinite resources in space, why should we limit ourselves and deprive us of that?

You seemingly have this odd outlook where you see us an imposition on the earth, and not actually part of it’s evolution. And the earth is more important humans. It’s almost a religious zeal but for environmentalism. And I wonder if u think we must pay for our ‘sins’ of the earth, by limiting our progress and not expanding further.

The parallels between environmentalism and religion are many.
 

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Environmental Busybody
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10,393 Posts
Unlike worshipping at the altar of self interest. What is it you find special in the world Danukoz?

It's just activity for the point of it. I don't understand the obsession with growing and spreading. That is a more interesting psychology than mine. It's not really a noble aim growth for the sake of it. Especially when it comes at the expense of other lifeforms.
 

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It’s called progress of the human civilisation. If we had taken that attitude all along we would still be living in caves. Its also a means of self preservation. You currently have all of human species on a single planet. Thats not a good situation for humans.
 

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Going into space is just another way to avoid facing responsibility.

Hindsight says we should have taken this position a long time ago...Europeans should have stayed in Europe...Everyone else would be where they originated but then using this theory we would all be living in Africa ?
Space...The Final Frontier...
 
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