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Galactic Ruler
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Here's hoping she bet on the wrong horse and she is gone from public life for good sooner rather than later. I hope the entire council gets the boot and we get some new big city-friendly members on council.

Clover Moore hits out at move to force businesses to vote in City of Sydney elections

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/clover-mo...-elections-20140812-1030ni.html#ixzz3A95TyNSI

Sydney’s lord mayor Clover Moore has hit out at plans to force 80,000 businesses to vote in council elections, accusing the state government of undermining democracy in a desperate bid to draw publicattention away from the scandals plaguing the Liberal Party at ICAC.

Business owners will be automatically enrolled to vote in the city’s elections under the proposed changes to the City of Sydney Act - a move widely expected to undermine Cr Moore’s hold on the mayoral chains next time council heads to the polls.

The government will back a Shooters and Fishers bill expected to be introduced into the lower house on Tuesday that would flood the City of Sydney's electoral roll with businesses, which would have up to two votes each.

The current arrangements, which require businesses to re-enrol for every election, "effectively disenfranchise a large proportion of those who pay the rates of the City of Sydney", NSW Premier Mike Baird said.

"This is a fundamental flaw in the democratic system of local government elections, which is denying many businesses a say in how their council is run, and one I intend to fix," Mr Baird said.

Last election, only 1700 businesses cast votes, out of about 100,000 registered voters.

Sydney Lord Mayor Clover Moore is against plans to force 80,000 businesses to vote in council elections.

The proposal, floated in March by a state parliamentary inquiry, would force the council to adopt a model similar to that of Melbourne, where it is mandatory for businesses and landlords to vote in elections.
But Cr Moore said the Melbourne model was flawed "and leaves Sydney exposed to serious corruption".

"This is a government desperate to distract the public from the findings of ICAC and the corruption that's been exposed between the Liberal Party and developers," Cr Moore said.

"The Premier won't stand down a Liberal MP who has confessed to taking bribes from developers, but instead is rushing a bill to reduce the say of local residents."

Cr Moore likened the proposed changes to the dual-role legislation, or "get Clover" laws, that forced her to relinquish her state seat of Sydney.
"I'm confident the community will see this for what it is - an attempt to manipulate democracy and take control of the City," Cr Moore said.
"It's not fair or democratic to give businesses two votes and residents just one."

The member for Sydney in the NSW lower house, Alex Greenwich, said he was concerned the government was rushing through the bill without consultation.
"I'm concerned that their bill may allow vested interests to rort the voting system, drowning out the voice and vote of small businesses and residents," Mr Greenwich said.

"The businesses I talk to love the work Clover is doing, but are deeply concerned about serious allegations against Liberal members while they have been in government."

But independent councillor and small-business owner Angela Vithoulkas has been lobbying for this change for years.

She told Fairfax Media better representation of small businesses would change the way councillors approach elections and the policies they promote.
“Councils need to genuinely look at what we can do to stimulate local economies, because state and federal government won’t,” Ms Vithoulkas said.
“Small-business owners have been slugging it for years and paying the rates that make Sydney so strong. Now they finally get a voice without having to jump too many hoops.”

Ms Vithoulkas added that, while it was great news for the city, she was concerned no one on the council or in local business had yet seen the draft legislation.

“It’s disappointing the legislation has so far been kept away from stakeholders. A focus on big business rather than the whole range would be concerning,” she said.
 

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Galactic Ruler
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Discussion Starter #2
"The businesses I talk to love the work Clover is doing, but are deeply concerned about serious allegations against Liberal members while they have been in government."
Can i ask what businesses he's been talking to? A newsstand kiosk operator maybe, certainly not big business?

She told Fairfax Media better representation of small businesses would change the way councillors approach elections and the policies they promote.
“Councils need to genuinely look at what we can do to stimulate local economies, because state and federal government won’t,” Ms Vithoulkas said.
“Small-business owners have been slugging it for years and paying the rates that make Sydney so strong. Now they finally get a voice without having to jump too many hoops.”
What???????????????????????????????
 

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I agree it could spell the end for Clover if the City of Sydney's 80,000 business vote in the elections. At the very least, she'd lose her majority on Council (which Clover Moore Independent Team members currently hold) and we'd see more Liberals on council. It would also benefit people like Angela Vithoulkas.

Can i ask what businesses he's been talking to? A newsstand kiosk operator maybe, certainly not big business?


What???????????????????????????????
Well, newspaper kiosk operators deserve a say too. Most of the businesses in Sydney (and anywhere) *are* small businesses. The job of local councillors is to represent LOCAL residents and stakeholders, not just big national and multinationals. As for Vithoulkas, she's right - councils *do* need to look at stimulating local economies. Apart from anything else, most of Sydney's rate base (i.e. their income) is derived from small business.
 

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I would actually be sorry to see her go. No one is perfect but I think she has done this city a lot of good, albeit for the "fluffy" stuff like parks, laneways, art and beautification of the city on a whole. I would hope that none of that hard work is pushed aside by a new Mayor.

I agree that building height and other regulation needs addressing and hopefully that is coming.

I have only been in Sydney for 14 years, so I don't have a huge memory to recall for the city past, but what did Sartor and Turnbull do for the city that is memorable? (That's a genuine question, not a snide remark).
 

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Sydney: World's best city
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Clover Moore is great with the basics of running a city e.g. providing local services etc. I have supported the city of villages concept because I think it improves the appeal of inner city suburbs as places to shop and live. She has been excellent on advocating better public transport and making streets more friendly for pedestrians but has been neglicent in trying to attract big businesses here to Sydney. City planning is outdated and has changed little. I'm concerned with how the current council refuses to work alongside the state in improving the city e.g. Barangaroo development.
 

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Well, the one man one vote idea of democracy doesn't apply for local government anyway. Residents, ratepayers (landlords) and commercial lessees are all enfranchised. In NSW the residential franchise is mandatory.

Further, you're only entitled to vote once in a council electoral area, but if your council has wards you could vote once in each ward if you are enfranchised in each ward.

In this case with respect to the City of Sydney: non-residents must re-register before every local government election. I suspect you will find most lessees that don't vote don't (and won't) register either.

So in the end very little could change.
 

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Now I understand why all these morons from down south complain about not being able to vote in council elections up here. I just thought they were mad as cut snakes, not jurisdictionally challenged.

I find the idea of voting by other than natural persons for any form of governmental election to be fundamentally dangerous.
 

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Galactic Ruler
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Discussion Starter #9
Businesses should NOT be allowed to vote. What kind of undermining of democracy.
What democracy would that be? So you think it's fair for CoS's small residential base to have total control over decisions in isolation? Business certainly need their voice and in the case of a CBD as important as Sydney it deserves to have the loudest voice. Some of you seem to be forgetting what a CBD is. I will remind some of you that the 'B' doesn't stand for bike-paths.
 

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Now I understand why all these morons from down south complain about not being able to vote in council elections up here. I just thought they were mad as cut snakes, not jurisdictionally challenged.

I find the idea of voting by other than natural persons for any form of governmental election to be fundamentally dangerous.
In the past I've tended to agree but I've had a bit of a re-think. About 80 per cent of the City of Sydney's revenue base (i.e. rates) is derived from the city's 80,000 businesses. Most of the business owners don't actually live within the City of Sydney itself, which is actually a rather small area. Since these people are the main contributors to the City of Sydney's revenue, shouldn't they get *some* say in how the city is run (i.e. how the money is spent)?

I guess all local councils are affected by similar issues to some extent but with the City of Sydney it's much more pronounced because the council administers only the CBD and some inner suburbs - the prime purpose of its the area is arguably commercial, which is different to a council that administers mainly residential areas.
 

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Businesses should NOT be allowed to vote. What kind of undermining of democracy.
Remember what we are talking about, local council elections for the CBD of a major city. A CBD used by millions of people, in which currently is represented by 191,918 'locals'.
Allowing businesses to vote will actually make for a more democratic local government, and will better represent the role the CBD plays in a city of millions.
 

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So should businesses be allowed to vote in federal and state elections because they pay taxes? Where do we draw the line?

Only residents should vote for residents, not entitles. Otherwise there would be widespread rorting with fake businesses getting votes.
 

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Remember what we are talking about, local council elections for the CBD of a major city. A CBD used by millions of people, in which currently is represented by 191,918 'locals'.
Allowing businesses to vote will actually make for a more democratic local government, and will better represent the role the CBD plays in a city of millions.
That population is bigger than most local governments in the entire country. It's more than the entire Northern Territory.

The more sensible thing to do would be to do away with as many local councils as possible.
 

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Business' in Melbourne City Council elections get two votes each, residents only one. There have been many accusations of corruption, but none proved yet I think.
 

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That population is bigger than most local governments in the entire country. It's more than the entire Northern Territory.

The more sensible thing to do would be to do away with as many local councils as possible.
City of Sydney should be a single LGA that spans from Strathfield to Bondi.
But politically speaking, allowing businesses to vote is much easier to implement.
 

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Business' in Melbourne City Council elections get two votes each, residents only one. There have been many accusations of corruption, but none proved yet I think.
Businesses not business'. Sorry.
 
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