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But very small overall population so easy to control.
Don't be a pedantic slave to ideology.
My NZ mates have said they had it easy ,late arrival, tiny population & very low number of multiple occupancy dwellings.
By the same token so has Sweden.
Biggest city is smaller than either Brum, Liverpool Manchester or Leeds .
It's a richer more equal & socially cohesive society. It's not the major plane travel hub of the planet etc etc.
Compare like with like say UK , France ,Germany lol
They also have virtually no public transport in NZ. It helps keep people apart from each other
 

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My apologies, it is the fastest growing in Europe, not the biggest:


A few months ago, The Spectator became the fastest-growing current affairs magazine not just in Britain but in Europe. Magazine industry figures are out today and we’re delighted to announce that in the second half of last year, each issue of The Spectator sold 83,020 copies, up 8.9 per cent on the year. This is an average for the six months: the figure now is significantly higher. In April, we’ll become the first magazine in the history of publishing to print a 10,000th issue: we’ll do so with sales at an all-time high.

What’s driving our success? We have the best writers – Rod Liddle, Matthew Parrisand Charles Moore, to name just a few – and let them write what they want. We have the best (and most beautiful) books and arts pages. Instant analysis from James Forsyth, Katy Balls and Isabel Hardman – the best-informed journalists in Westminster. And our growing readership lets us invest in giving subscribers more of The Spectator, including:

  • Podcasts. We have over 1.4 million monthly listens for our growing stable of podcasts, including the daily Coffee House Shots, where James Forsyth, Katy Balls and guests analyse the latest developments in Westminster and beyond (here’s the latest, on why Sajid Javid quit the government today); Americano, where Spectator USA editor Freddy Gray and guests make sense of US political madness; and Sam Leith’s Book Club, with interviews and discussions on the latest releases in the world of publishing, from poetry to physics.
  • Emails, including Isabel Hardman’s Evening Blend – Westminster’s most-read politics email, delivering the best Spectatorwriters straight to your inbox. With 90,000 subscribers and a 40 per cent open rate, Evening Blend is Britain’s no. 1 politics email.
Well we know the right is on the up globally and The Spectator gaining bums on seats reflects that. But it's a blip in an overall historical trend towards progressive attitudes.
Hanging, abortion, Gay rights, race issues, female education & participation, minority empowerment etc etc.
History will show us the Obama was the begining of something where as Trump was the end.
Ditto Brexit. Yes it's coming & yes it may force a shake up in The EU. But whatever we call it our relationship, integration & connection with Europe & EU within its self is only going one way . Next is AI & UBI & they will render nationally argued priorities ever more meaningless.
The libertarian or ' contrarian' economists will be forced to accept changing tech & attitudes.
I'll be long gone but I'd say in 30-50 years...
 

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Well we know the right is on the up globally and The Spectator gaining bums on seats reflects that. But it's a blip in an overall historical trend towards progressive attitudes.
Hanging, abortion, Gay rights, race issues, female education & participation, minority empowerment etc etc.
History will show us the Obama was the begining of something where as Trump was the end.
Ditto Brexit. Yes it's coming & yes it may force a shake up in The EU. But whatever we call it our relationship, integration & connection with Europe & EU within its self is only going one way . Next is AI & UBI & they will render nationally argued priorities ever more meaningless.
The libertarian or ' contrarian' economists will be forced to accept changing tech & attitudes.
I'll be long gone but I'd say in 30-50 years...
Firstly, I think you need to read the Spectator if you think they are opposed to gay rights, female education, race equality, etc.

Secondly, if Obama was the beginning of something, we may as well hand the keys to China now and be done with it.

Thirdly, libertarians and contrarians tend to be embrace new technologies and attitudes. It's your left authoritarians who like to reject new technologies and enforce a set of attitudes on everyone.

Fourthly, all the evidence appears to be that soft-left social democracy is in crisis.
 

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They also have virtually no public transport in NZ. It helps keep people apart from each other
Yes, yes, I understand all this. I am a Kiwi. More important than how many buses they have is how bloody far away they are from everywhere else.

I never claimed Norway or Sweden are directly comparable to us and I never brought up NZ at all.

The point is that although there are differences, there are also massive similarities between Western developed nations in Northern Europe and when a national government of a leading nation says "oops, maybe we didn't need to destroy the economy overall" this is worth a) reporting and b) discussing.

The article I shared actually argued that the UK government should do the same sort of analysis and publish the data in the same sort of way.

This seems eminently sensible.

The fact that so few UK media have covered this analysis underlines what has been evident for weeks, which is the left wing establishment is now ideologically wedded to the idea that lockdown is the only answer (it does tick all their authoritarian and elitist boxes, after all).

And given that they have been spending all their energy trying to get Cummings fired for breaking lockdown, of course they don't want to dilute the narrative that breaking lockdown makes you worse than Hitler.
 

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Firstly, I think you need to read the Spectator if you think they are opposed to gay rights, female education, race equality, etc.

Secondly, if Obama was the beginning of something, we may as well hand the keys to China now and be done with it.

Thirdly, libertarians and contrarians tend to be embrace new technologies and attitudes. It's your left authoritarians who like to reject new technologies and enforce a set of attitudes on everyone.

Fourthly, all the evidence appears to be that soft-left social democracy is in crisis.
Just to pick on a point, everybody pretty much has handed the keys to China and our reliance on them must be curtailed. We need to be more self sufficient, and I’m a remainer. I’ve believed for a long time that we don’t produce/manufacture enough of our own products. Components? Yeah, but if Brexit IS going ahead, we need to become an island again and it’s up to those who led the Brexit campaign to find the funding for it. Not just keep dipping the public purse.
 

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Yes, yes, I understand all this. I am a Kiwi. More important than how many buses they have is how bloody far away they are from everywhere else.

I never claimed Norway or Sweden are directly comparable to us and I never brought up NZ at all.

The point is that although there are differences, there are also massive similarities between Western developed nations in Northern Europe and when a national government of a leading nation says "oops, maybe we didn't need to destroy the economy overall" this is worth a) reporting and b) discussing.

The article I shared actually argued that the UK government should do the same sort of analysis and publish the data in the same sort of way.

This seems eminently sensible.

The fact that so few UK media have covered this analysis underlines what has been evident for weeks, which is the left wing establishment is now ideologically wedded to the idea that lockdown is the only answer (it does tick all their authoritarian and elitist boxes, after all).

And given that they have been spending all their energy trying to get Cummings fired for breaking lockdown, of course they don't want to dilute the narrative that breaking lockdown makes you worse than Hitler.
Godwin’s Law took a bit longer to appear than I thought it would.
 

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The easing of lockdown continues here. There are no longer any red zones but the Paris region and two overseas territories of Mayotte and Guyana are now classified as orange. There are around a dozen departments which still have clusters of the virus with the two departments causing most concern being the Val d'Oise (near Paris) and Mayotte (Indian ocean). The R rate is thought to be 0.77.

Most primary schools are already open and other schools are to start gradually opening from next week. Also next week cafés, bars and restaurants can open although in orange zones that will be restricted to outside terraces only. Everyone must be seated, wear masks when moving around and tables are restricted to 10 people maximum. Tourist accommodation can open in green zones but remains closed in Paris until 22nd June. The 100km restriction on travel is to be lifted next week. All parks and gardens can reopen this weekend, beaches, lakes, campsites, museums and other monuments open from next week. Theatres, gyms and swimming pools can reopen from next week in green zones, cinemas from 22nd June - masks will be compulsory. Discos, nightclubs, casinos and all sporting events must remain closed for time being. Weddings and funerals can be held as per normal subject to a limit of 10 people.
 

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Yes, yes, I understand all this. I am a Kiwi. More important than how many buses they have is how bloody far away they are from everywhere else.

I never claimed Norway or Sweden are directly comparable to us and I never brought up NZ at all.

The point is that although there are differences, there are also massive similarities between Western developed nations in Northern Europe and when a national government of a leading nation says "oops, maybe we didn't need to destroy the economy overall" this is worth a) reporting and b) discussing.

The article I shared actually argued that the UK government should do the same sort of analysis and publish the data in the same sort of way.

This seems eminently sensible.

The fact that so few UK media have covered this analysis underlines what has been evident for weeks, which is the left wing establishment is now ideologically wedded to the idea that lockdown is the only answer (it does tick all their authoritarian and elitist boxes, after all).

And given that they have been spending all their energy trying to get Cummings fired for breaking lockdown, of course they don't want to dilute the narrative that breaking lockdown makes you worse than Hitler.
I wasnt disagreeing with you. I was simply pointing out a further reason the Kiwis had it easy. They even had basic advantages within their urban areas. But of course Saint Jacinda gets all the praise.......
 

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lol but it actually is.
Godwin's Law: "The theory that as an online discussion progresses, it becomes inevitable that someone or something will eventually be compared to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis, regardless of the original topic."

I wasn't comparing anyone with Hitler or the Nazis, I was mocking those who make those sorts of comparisons. #NotGodwinsLaw
 

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The fact that so few UK media have covered this analysis underlines what has been evident for weeks, which is the left wing establishment is now ideologically wedded to the idea that lockdown is the only answer (it does tick all their authoritarian and elitist boxes, after all).

And given that they have been spending all their energy trying to get Cummings fired for breaking lockdown, of course they don't want to dilute the narrative that breaking lockdown makes you worse than Hitler.
Are you sure? The left wing establishment despises Cummings for having lost the EU referendum for them, this was their pay back opportunity.
 

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The left wing establishment despises Cummings for having lost the EU referendum for them
People on the left can be Brexiters, just as people on the right can be Remainers. Plenty of people and journalists on the right are angry with Cummings and the way the Government have treated this whole saga.
 

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Agreed but I think the right wing Remainers are maybe less mad as Brexit has propelled the Conservatives into power once more as a result of Labour tearing itself a part on the issue so they have a sop for their loss.

Reading between lines, I personally think people are mad because they are Remainers - or they believe the media storm whipped up by the Remainer journalists.

If we look at another example, that scientist who broke lock-down to have an affair - a very clearcut, example of breaking wrong doing, he did wrong very clearly so but are you angry with him? I am not. This fake anger is there for a reason.
 

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The fact that so few UK media have covered this analysis underlines what has been evident for weeks, which is the left wing establishment is now ideologically wedded to the idea that lockdown is the only answer (it does tick all their authoritarian and elitist boxes, after all).
This has been the weirdest part of the Corona debate for me so far. I'm not that politically interested but would generally tend to agree with the so-called "left wing establishment" on most issues. But with lockdown I find myself completely baffled - a lot of otherwise sensible people almost seem to consider the lockdown as a good in itself and are very hesitant to discuss its obvious direct and indirect negative effects. And attempts at comparing these effects with the effects of the disease itself aren't really condoned at all, that's what get you labeled pro-death, at least among the more extreme of the lockdownistas.

It's so weird. Perhaps the lockdown was necessary; perhaps it still is, but given the impact it has on society, the need for it should be constantly questioned, not taken as a premise.
 

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This has been the weirdest part of the Corona debate for me so far. I'm not that politically interested but would generally tend to agree with the so-called "left wing establishment" on most issues. But with lockdown I find myself completely baffled - a lot of otherwise sensible people almost seem to consider the lockdown as a good in itself and are very hesitant to discuss its obvious direct and indirect negative effects. And attempts at comparing these effects with the effects of the disease itself aren't really condoned at all, that's what get you labeled pro-death, at least among the more extreme of the lockdownistas.

It's so weird. Perhaps the lockdown was necessary; perhaps it still is, but given the impact it has on society, the need for it should be constantly questioned, not taken as a premise.
Yes, the psychology of this is all very interesting. There's a phenomenon called 'hyperpolarisation in groups'. It means that when a group of people with similar values debate a topic, they all tend to coalesce around the most hardline position. The political media who have been covering this story are a bit of a hive mind (similar social backgrounds, shared friendships, they've all worked with eachother, they hang out together and discuss stories together, they appear on eachother's podcasts, etc). So as they talk about lockdown together, they become more and more sure that lockdown is the best and only answer. I think that, more than political affiliations, is what has happened with the media.

When you have a hardened position on a topic, you reject contrary information. See: This forum.
 

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Agreed but I think the right wing Remainers are maybe less mad as Brexit has propelled the Conservatives into power once more as a result of Labour tearing itself a part on the issue so they have a sop for their loss.

Reading between lines, I personally think people are mad because they are Remainers - or they believe the media storm whipped up by the Remainer journalists.

If we look at another example, that scientist who broke lock-down to have an affair - a very clearcut, example of breaking wrong doing, he did wrong very clearly so but are you angry with him? I am not. This fake anger is there for a reason.
WTH he resigned the same day the story broke lol. Cummings in still in the job a week after, that's what the anger is, there is probably an element of him having some capacity in writing the rules which he ignored too.

This has been the weirdest part of the Corona debate for me so far. I'm not that politically interested but would generally tend to agree with the so-called "left wing establishment" on most issues. But with lockdown I find myself completely baffled - a lot of otherwise sensible people almost seem to consider the lockdown as a good in itself and are very hesitant to discuss its obvious direct and indirect negative effects. And attempts at comparing these effects with the effects of the disease itself aren't really condoned at all, that's what get you labeled pro-death, at least among the more extreme of the lockdownistas.

It's so weird. Perhaps the lockdown was necessary; perhaps it still is, but given the impact it has on society, the need for it should be constantly questioned, not taken as a premise.
Whilst this is true to some degree it's certainly a far left position. My reading of it is that you cannot recover a life but you can recover an economy. If those actions lead to issues down the line you can deal with them then but right now you stop people dying from the thing that is killing them now not what might kill them in a year.
 
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