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The 'some' restrictions you're referring to won't smooth the curve, can't have it both ways.

I'm classed as a micro-business. I deliberately chose that because I don't want to be exposed to too much risk. My contracts were all cancelled on Tuesday, when the intra-state travel advisory came out. But, I've planned for these scenarios. I suppose that makes me a 'nervous nellie' generally, but one part of me is not that sympathetic to many of my colleagues out there, that don't manage their risk properly, because 'she'll be right, will never happen' attitude so prevalent in this country. It's such a strong cultural imbedded thing. Act like a dick, then cry like a baby the instant something challenging comes up. It does my head in. If you'd told those people to act more responsibly in the good times, they'd tell you to F.O. Then in the bad times expect everyone to come running to their aid. It's good you're all looking out for each other, because it's not other people's job to clean up after risk-takers.
Yes, you're a PSI contractor through a company with very little overheads, quite easy to be prepared for downturn with few overheads and just a cat to feed. Most businesses have commercial rent, wages, SGC, equipment leases, excessive compliance costs, list goes on. Can't just wish that away when suddenly something out of your control causes nil income to be derived, how could anyone foresee something like this occurring? Yes, there's challenging times with business but this is armageddon for most business but to you they're just acting like a "Dick".

Your contempt for SME's who risk their behinds is astounding, because they take on risk your empathy towards them is NIL, it's so callous!!
 

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A lot of people have families to support and have back up jobs or financial earning capacity as a back up. No one could ever anticipate this and the government has literally shut down entire industries where skills aren’t transferable.

For someone who pretends to have all this compassion for others you seem to have absolutely zero clue on what all those people who instantly lost their income with no other ability to earn i come might be going through
Spot on, Kelli's compassion level is only for those who fit in her little "Bubble".

I'm gobsmacked that someone could label a business who puts their butt on the line as "acting like a dick".
 

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Authorised Replicant
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From what I understand, Centrelink's transition from “Newstart” to “JobSeeker” was always scheduled to occur in March 2020 (the date was actually set last year from what I understand).

This must be the worst case scenario for Centrelink - literally an economic disaster occurring with millions applying for payments just as they’re updating all of their systems and processes to deal with a transition from one payment to another.
 

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Environmental Busybody
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It's not about going for the big reward, it's about the fact that most businesses do no plan for entire industries shutting down instantly and indefinitely.

These businesses drive the economy, these people are entrepreneurial, they employ people.

Are they and the people they employ more important to the country than say a druggie who just got his newstart doubled and gets to sit in the safety of his home through all this? Sure are to me.
Because the face of this crisis, is a druggie on newstart?
 

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Kelli - that small group of people you refer to effectively provide the employment and taxes for the rest of the country. Where is the government going to get it tax income if the source of its own revenue is destroyed?

Rather, I think the public sector has screwed up its risk management. Why on earth does it not have enough ICU beds and ventilators for a pandemic? The public sector is making the private sector pay for its own incompetence
 

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We can all say one group is more important, more worthy than another, suffering the most or have the most negative consequences. We can all lay blame on others but in the end the virus is the enemy and has to be defeated to get back to some kind of normality and in around 100 years time we can do it all again and learn nothing.
 

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Environmental Busybody
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Kelli - that small group of people you refer to effectively provide the employment and taxes for the rest of the country. Where is the government going to get it tax income if the source of its own revenue is destroyed?

Rather, I think the public sector has screwed up its risk management. Why on earth does it not have enough ICU beds and ventilators for a pandemic? The public sector is making the private sector pay for its own incompetence
That's pretty funny coming from someone that has complained about taxes etc. All our institutions have been white-anted due to neoliberalism and ideas about small-statism by the people you vote for. Which is really other-statism, diverting taxpayers money from institutions and giving it to their mates. Then they wonder what happened when things go wrong. It's not only the health system, it's many of our institutions, the ABC (where we're getting the only reliable information right now), the CSIRO (who could be leading research on this).

It's not only funds drying up, the culture is poisoning institutions. People too afraid to make decisions. Top down management that is the result of overblown aspirational culture, that is more concerned with building their own ranks than funding the people that actually do the work, or to listen and learn from them. Amongst many other cultural issues this country has.
 

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We can all say one group is more important, more worthy than another, suffering the most or have the most negative consequences. We can all lay blame on others but in the end the virus is the enemy and has to be defeated to get back to some kind of normality and in around 100 years time we can do it all again and learn nothing.
Yep, you are right. We are all at times, acting like experts. I'm merely trying to keep my amygdala small by reading what I can and keeping away from the overload of the MSM. I choose when to read and get up-to-date. This forum is part of that. We have various opinions but we all just want this to be over ASAP. It's kind of surreal.
 

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Destorying our history
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You say that it is all good not me troll. I nor health workers are the cause of the virus, I nor health workers are responsible for suicides or depression before or after the pandemic, I nor health workers have caused the economic depression, nor are any overwhelmed health workers responsible for any virus or mental health death and suffering. Mass deaths and virus complications also cause family and friends to have deep depression and suffering as well. There are no winners in any of this. You can be irresponsible and not follow instructions to self isolate deluding yourself that if we took no measures it would all go away and the economy and society would hummer along, I will choose not too.
I am self isolating (or social distancing) because I have the ability to and keep my job. My family gets fed and we keep the in tact the family home. Many people don't have these options and that is evident as they are going out of lockdown to line up at Centrelink.

I've just said that I'm one of those people. Along with many others probably, I knew the risks and I took responsibility and planned for them.

It's not 'those people' I have no compassion for. It's the usual suspects in here, making out like they're the most entitled people in society, like usual, and if their small rights don't outweigh other people's big rights, then they cry like big heartbroken babies. It's sickening. It's what bullies do.
You knew the risk that a once in a lifetime virus has shut us down like never before. Well done.

What I am saying is that people normally, myself included, keep options open and plan for maybe a short down turn if required. But wholesale shut down of industries is impossible to weather if you have lives depending on you and there are no other options.

Not sure who the entitled are or what the big rights are but surely people are entitled to earn a living and the big rights would e able to feed their family.

Mate if anyone is lacking empath here its you, you've suggested that the economy should come before those who are at risk and vulnerable, despite having no evidence to suggest that doing so would prevent a melt-down of the health system and economy anyway.

You're being incredibly short-sighted in only acknowledging immediate economic effects of the lock-downs with no thought to the long term impact of the alternate measures which you are proposing.
Not at all, vulnerable and at risk people can and should absolutely self isolate. The economy is already melting down as we type. Did you see the Centrelink lines?

Its not the immediate economic effects I'm concerned with, its the long term economic damage and the associated health effects of the economic damage. There will be businesses that never recover, unemployment will hit minimum 10% but likely double that, incomes will fall, mental health issues will manifest, drug abuse, homelessness increases, domestic violence. Things people cannot self isolate from with devastating consequences.

But yeah, I lack empathy.
 

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Just thinking with our First World, its economy, its institutions, its society crumbling and in turmoil turning on one another and its people becoming uncertain, afraid, not knowing if they can get decent healthcare, not knowing if they can put food on the table, living hand to mouth that is how the third world lives and they are the majority of humanity. Worth a thought.
 

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Environmental Busybody
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Yes, you're a PSI contractor through a company with very little overheads, quite easy to be prepared for downturn with few overheads and just a cat to feed. Most businesses have commercial rent, wages, SGC, equipment leases, excessive compliance costs, list goes on. Can't just wish that away when suddenly something out of your control causes nil income to be derived, how could anyone foresee something like this occurring? Yes, there's challenging times with business but this is armageddon for most business but to you they're just acting like a "Dick".

Your contempt for SME's who risk their behinds is astounding, because they take on risk your empathy towards them is NIL, it's so callous!!
Stop pretending you don't understand what I'm getting at.
 

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Destorying our history
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Yes, you're a PSI contractor through a company with very little overheads, quite easy to be prepared for downturn with few overheads and just a cat to feed. Most businesses have commercial rent, wages, SGC, equipment leases, excessive compliance costs, list goes on. Can't just wish that away when suddenly something out of your control causes nil income to be derived, how could anyone foresee something like this occurring? Yes, there's challenging times with business but this is armageddon for most business but to you they're just acting like a "Dick".

Your contempt for SME's who risk their behinds is astounding, because they take on risk your empathy towards them is NIL, it's so callous!!
Yet bludgers get the ultimate sympathy while those who champion tax cuts so they can better support themselves are Hitler. Certainly a mindset I’ll never understand.
 

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Destorying our history
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For future reference when the next pandemic eventually occurs how many lives are worth each percentage point decline in GDP? Just so we know what the acceptable death toll is. Thanks.
This is great resource to show how unemployment affects suicide.


In the US research attributed an increase of 5000 suicides to the GFC unemployment fall out. So far the US has about 1000 covid19 deaths.

The big difference is working age suicides and the fall out of that vs the majority of deaths being non working age who can self isolate.
 

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That doesn't answer my question and also exposes two shortfalls in your reasoning:
1. The entirety of GFC unfolded over a good couple of years. US has 1,000+ deaths and it's only been going on there for a month or so.
2. You seem to be treating suicides are more tragic and more worthy of prevention than other deaths.

Furthermore there is these strange logic that somehow the older generation (and other vulnerable at risk types) can be protected by self-isolating them only. Putting aside the fact that nursing homes are pretty isolating anyway, the older generation are substantially less able to care for themselves than the younger generation. Let's not forget the high risk of suicide amongst the older generation as well. On top of that how long do these at risk types need to be isolated for before the virus has passed through the entire population and it's safe again?
 

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power of tower
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The restrictions might be starting to have a positive effect in some states.

New confirmed cases-

Victoria March 22............. 67 new cases peaked
march 23.............59 new cases
march 24............ 56 new cases
march 25 ........... 55 new cases
march 26............ 54 new cases




QLD March 24............. 78 new cases peaked
march 25 ..............46 new cases march 26.............. 50 new cases


W.A march 24..............35 new cases peaked march 25...... .......30 new cases
march 26.............. 26 new cases








New South Wales and South Australia not as positive yet. Though even their new case rates are holding

NSW March 22............ 97 new cases
march 23......... 136 new cases
march 24...........149 new cases
march 25...........211 new cases peaked
March 26 ......... 190 new cases







S.A March 22........... 33 new cases
March 23.......... 34 new cases
march 24 .........36 new cases
march 25 ........ 27 new cases
march 26......... 38 new cases peaked

Source ABC News


Might have a chance of flattening the curve yet.

Fingers crossed.
 

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I agree with the restrictions and the current death rate in the world with the various forms of restrictions and testing for the different age groups is 80 years plus 14.8%, 70 - 79 years 8%, 60-69 years 3.6%, 50-59 years 1.3 %, 40-49 years 0.4%, 30-39 years 0.2%, 20-29 years 0.2 %

So lets do the maths

So we will heartlessly forget about the over 70s because they are an economic burden anyway and for the good of the economy their deaths do not matter or hopefully we will protect them to drastically reduce their death rate.
So if my sums be right with around 2.5 million in Australia aged 65 to 69 @ 3.6% death rate = 90,000 deaths
Around 3 million 50 to 59 year old in Australia @ 1.3% virus death rate = 39,000 deaths
Around 3.2 million 40 to 49 year old in Australia @ 0.4 % = 12,800 deaths
Around 3 million 30 to 39 year old @ 0.2% = 6,000 deaths
Around 3.2 million 20 to 29 year old @ 0.2 % = 6400 deaths



^^ Do we consider that acceptable? Do we keep distancing, better prepare health workers or let the death rate figures explode to foolishly think it will miraculously save the economy?

 

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Destorying our history
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That doesn't answer my question and also exposes two shortfalls in your reasoning:
1. The entirety of GFC unfolded over a good couple of years. US has 1,000+ deaths and it's only been going on there for a month or so.
2. You seem to be treating suicides are more tragic and more worthy of prevention than other deaths.

Furthermore there is these strange logic that somehow the older generation (and other vulnerable at risk types) can be protected by self-isolating them only. Putting aside the fact that nursing homes are pretty isolating anyway, the older generation are substantially less able to care for themselves than the younger generation. Let's not forget the high risk of suicide amongst the older generation as well. On top of that how long do these at risk types need to be isolated for before the virus has passed through the entire population and it's safe again?
That was just one year and only suicides not things like overdoses or domestic violence victims or murders. Not to mention the raft of mental health issues.

Older people can self isolate and those assisting elderly can take precautions. Either way those elderly needing assistance are at the exact same risk now under isolation and interacting with others as required.

Do we just keeping people unemployed until it all passes?
 
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