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So basically the lesson learned is to keep doing what we're doing, and what the governments of Australia are pushing for: get vaccinated then get a booster.

Your posts come across as: being fearful / conservative about covid (like WA) is right and taking a more relaxed approach (a la NSW and VIC) is dangerous. It's how they come across but I note that you don't come out and say it explicitly. I also see a lot of people conveying that message and notice that they rarely say it explicitly - instead using vague inferences.

But I note that your suggested lesson learned is to do exactly what NSW and VIC have done.
Yes in general keep doing what we are doing but remain vigilant and cautious, I do fear for excessive death, serious illness and impacts to health systems like we are seeing in other places around the world so your observation is spot on. So I will try not to be vague, I don't think Victoria took a relaxed approach and NSW thought they could control the virus but both States went through a lot of suffering and long lockdowns that obviously I would like other States and Territories to avoid. Both NSW and Victoria had fewer options than places that currently have no virus in their communities. I would have thought best to try and avoid what Victoria went through as I don't want their death toll and case numbers. NSW seem to be doing better. WA, SA, Tassie, QLD and the NT so far have had no long lockdown and few deaths so I yes I like that. Getting to a nice high vaccine rate gives me and others a bit more security. My State so far has avoided the worse parts of this pandemic so I have some trepidation going forward.
 

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I would have thought best to try and avoid what Victoria went through
Correct, and that's what we're doing. You agree that nothing needs to change - we need to get vaccinated and that's what's happening.

So the Germany analogy isn't changing anything. We're vaccinating heavily, getting boosters and most importantly we can also protect ourselves at an individual level.
 

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Correct, and that's what we're doing. You agree that nothing needs to change - we need to get vaccinated and that's what's happening.

So the Germany analogy isn't changing anything. We're vaccinating heavily, getting boosters and most importantly we can also protect ourselves at an individual level.
Things can change when you least expect it so we need to stay on course. Yes we're as in WA, QLD, TAS, SA and NT and we need to get vaccinated to a high percentage but some are at a slower pace and we seem to be seeing increasing noisy resistance, non compliance, political opportunism and protests. What happens overseas is still important to many and it is good to know what is happening elsewhere. There are people in many Nations in Europe now realising their vaccine coverage is currently not high enough. So lessons to learn.
 

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Depends what you're trying to understand. If you're trying to understand the propensity of the virus to spread then it should be based on total population. If you're trying to understand how "well" a country has done with its vaccination campaign then using eligible population makes sense.
No I don't think that's reasonable either because children continue to be less likely transmission vectors (notwithstanding that right now in NSW and Victoria, as the by far and away largest group of unvaccinated, they represent a majority of transmissions).
 

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Intuitively it makes sense that kids would spread it. They get milder symptoms that would mean they have lower viral loads - so less likely to spread it on a per-exposure basis. But, their milder symptoms mean they're more active, more likely to interact with people and therefore have more opportunities to spread it. I wouldn't be surprised if, overall, they spread it as much as adults. From the experience of the UK, it runs wild through schools when given the opportunity.
 

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My prediction is that after Friday's National Cabinet meeting we'll see an agreement along the lines of:
  • A bubble with Singapore from mid-November, allowing two-way travel, including inbound tourists from Singapore
  • Full opening of tourists, international students and business travellers from 1st December for NSW, VIC and ACT.
  • Subsequent opening of tourists for other states based on state opening plans (late December to mid-January for QLD, NT and SA)
This allows the feds to work out things like recognition of international vaccine certs and other process changes in November using residents and citizens - before opening up to a larger volume of traffic from December.

It would also mean that for a few weeks, international tourists would be able to spend two weeks in NSW, ACT or VIC before travelling to QLD or SA.
I didn't quite get it right on tourists, but 1st December has just been confirmed as another loosening of international border restrictions. Basically, all visa holders except short term tourists and business travellers will be able to enter Australia from that date without an exemption. Japan and Korea are also now confirmed as additional travel bubbles from 1st December too - meaning tourists and business travellers can enter from those countries.
 

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But. no one expected hefty costs of PCR testing once reaching 80%. This really disadvantages the people who went out and became vaccinated early in anticipation of being able to travel freely at Christmas domestically.
 

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What I don't understand why States, Qld especially are imposing unnecessary costs with PCR testing? Rapid testing is sufficient for domestic travel purposes when a State reaches 80%.
because AP still thinks she can keep the virus out and is evidently starting to have pre-withdrawal symptoms about not being able to impose ridiculous rules on people. I'd suggest no-one in NSW/VIC/SA should bother going to Queensland until this rule is removed

the alternative approach is to lie and say you have a runny nose when you attend a PCR testing centre and the cost will then be covered by Medicare. As a result I can now see all of the PCR testing centres being overrun by intending QLD Tourists, in a similar way they were overrun when the Vic government imposed PCR testing if you wanted to visit the ski fields. I can tell you this completely pissed off those at the testing centres but then I guess what else can you expect from low IQ politicians and health beaurocrats who can't ever properly think through the impact of their decision making
 

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I suppose the 19 dead in Victoria from Covid today will not be going on interstate holidays or demanding freedumb. At the moment the non Covid States have similar rules in regards to testing. SA has just opened its border but requires testing for everyone except those from very low risk areas.
 

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Also, 17 were unvaccinated by choice. A choice they made. I have little sympathy at this stage people seeing the consequences of their on actions. The consequences that are well known about.

People dying from their own consequences shouldn't be a reason to stop those people who have taken the correct steps to prevent those consequences.
 

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Also, 17 were unvaccinated by choice. A choice they made. I have little sympathy at this stage people seeing the consequences of their on actions. The consequences that are well known about.

People dying from their own consequences shouldn't be a reason to stop those people who have taken the correct steps to prevent those consequences.
Might be a bit harsh there as it is only in the last few months we have had enough vaccines, we don't know their individual circumstances and there is no shortage of misinformation and distrust that is creating hesitancy. The non vaccinated are a issue that should not be dismissed as they will clog up the health system, create disharmony and division. That is why I am appalled at the two faced leadership of ScoMo.
 

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Nah, there has been heaps of vaccines and heaps of warning. I would have said it was a bit harsh if it occurred in September, but we've had enough vaccines for everyone to be double dose by late September, early October.

I am disgusted with Morrison on the vaccine front, however there are a few more issues:
  • Vaccinations to remote areas are slower than they should have been.
  • QLD and WA took way to long to setting targets and implementing carrots and sticks. This should have been talked about in August/September, and given people ample warning about what was going to occur. Delayed vaccination rates increases the risk on the community if there are any breaches.
 

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Agree with your points but I don't want my misguided cousins or friends or our indigenous communities to get seriously ill or die. I don't think we should be giving up on them in trying to change their views. Their choices do have consequences for the rest of us.
 
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