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天豆
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Debate heats up with transit union over making TTC an essential service
JENNIFER PAGLIARO
Globe and Mail Update
Published Monday, Dec. 20, 2010 5:48PM EST

The union representing TTC workers and the city have started a war of words over what it means to be an essential service in Rob Ford’s Toronto – and how the city will pay for it.

With workers' contracts expiring at the end of March and the city requesting that the province curb their right to strike, the union boss is already sparring with city officials over whether TTC workers deserve compensation on par with Toronto’s police and firefighters.

ATU Local 113 president Bob Kinnear has been quoted recently saying he believes transit workers, if declared essential, should get the same pay as Toronto’s other essential emergency services.

He told the Globe and Mail on Monday he has been forced to take this position by the city.

On Thursday, city council voted 28 to 17 in favour of asking the province to make the TTC an essential service. Now it’s a waiting game to see if the province takes action before union negotiations begin in February.

“We don’t believe that we meet the same threshold as the police and the fire. It’s the city that’s making that argument,” Mr. Kinnear said in an interview. “If the city – city council, and the Toronto Transit Commission – want to deem us an essential service equivalent to the firefighters and police, then we would obviously argue that the compensation should be the same.”

A 4th class Toronto police constable currently earns $56,731 in base pay, while a 1st class constable earns $81,046. A first class firefighter, the lowest rank, earns $78,741.

Meanwhile the top rate for a TTC operator is $29.43 per hour, and $35.31 per hour for a mechanic, according to TTC’s director of corporate communications Brad Ross.

Mr. Kinnear said employees typically earn $56,000 to $57,000 on average before overtime pay.


But TTC chairman Karen Stintz, who voted in favour of council’s request to the province, said the assertion that TTC workers be paid at the same level as Toronto’s finest was entirely off base.

“They aren’t doing the same job as police and firefighters,” she said. “I’m not sure that’s a reasonable expectation given that they’re not doing the same job.”

But Mr. Kinnear said by being made an essential service, the city is putting them in the same, albeit unwanted, position.

“We recognize the important job that police services and fire provide to this city and we have the utmost respect for them and the jobs that they do each and every day putting their lives on the line,” Mr. Kinnear said. “That’s the whole reason why we don’t believe we should be characterized the same as them.”

While he’s already said more work-to-rule campaigns are in store if the TTC is deemed essential, Mr. Kinnear said the focus will also turn to equal pay.

“Is it unreasonable to think, that if we were deemed, our organization was deemed, an essential service that we wouldn’t put forth our best arguments to increase the compensation?” he said. “Why wouldn’t we do that?”

That mindset is likely to anger already disgruntled transit users, but Mr. Kinnear said they have the city to blame.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...king-ttc-an-essential-service/article1845092/

:eek:hno:
 

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They won't get the full $10k but an arbiter will probably close the gap by $5k over 5 years. Look for the next TTC agreement to be closer to 5% raises per annum if the police get their 3%.

Funny thing is, once the TTC get theirs the police will argue that their job is much more dangerous and deserving of higher pay than TTC. Their arbiter, who will be a different person, may well grant them something for that logic. Toronto Police win "best paid police force in Canada" arguments regularly.
 

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Right.. Drivers should not get a raise becasue they do a job none of us can, or will do.

That logic is f'ed up!

If the coucil wants to take away worker's right to strike, give them an incentive not to strike.

Why people are for these sort of union-busting tactics is beyond me.
 

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Torontonian 4ever
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Because TTC operators are routinely paid over 100k for a service that does not even deserve anything near that salary.

On top of that inflated salary and excellent benefits, they consistently treat customers like shit, engage in wildcat strikes and have a union whose leader insults the city and its people.

I can guarantee that even if Ford goes after the TTC union with all teeth clenched and it blows up in his face, he will still be wildly popular with most of the city. Face it, REGULAR Torontonians (those who aren't mired by socialist ideals) would pay front row prices to see this specific union get booted.
 

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All Urban
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Because TTC operators are routinely paid over 100k for a service that does not even deserve anything near that salary.

On top of that inflated salary and excellent benefits, they consistently treat customers like shit, engage in wildcat strikes and have a union whose leader insults the city and its people.

I can guarantee that even if Ford goes after the TTC union with all teeth clenched and it blows up in his face, he will still be wildly popular with most of the city. Face it, REGULAR Torontonians (those who aren't mired by socialist ideals) would pay front row prices to see this specific union get booted.
This is a weird situation for Toronto to be in. Making TTC an essential service means higher salaries which means increased costs and less service to compensate, plus nothing to prevent wildcat strikes or work-to-rule ... in fact we would probably see more work-to-rule actions, slow trips, unexplained protest stops, etc.

I dunno, maybe annual salaries instead of hourly pay + overtime would be a good thing for the TTC.

Those operators who make more than 100k a year do a sh!tload of overtime in order to get those numbers - and they are doing overtime because there aren't enough drivers willing to take on those extra assignments.

Maybe if TTC drivers got an annualized salary of 50,000 and were limited in overtime, we would get more drivers and fewer overtime hogs.

Kinnear throwing the comparative wages on the table (which is sure to get shot down) makes it clear that he prefers the right to strike and negotiate contracts (and be the hardass) over increased salaries for TTC workers.

Cheers, m
 

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Because TTC operators are routinely paid over 100k for a service that does not even deserve anything near that salary.
Drivers work a lot of overtime to reach 100K. If you worked overtime, you would expect to be paid also! It's not "routine" as you claim.

On top of that inflated salary and excellent benefits, they consistently treat customers like shit, engage in wildcat strikes and have a union whose leader insults the city and its people.
Associating a few bad drivers with 12,000 other employees is typical of right-wing arguments. I have dealt with great employees, and bad ones. Every workplace will have crappy employees. It's sad you right-wingers feel the need to bitch and complain just because others have better jobs than you! It's sad really. Everyone has a right to make a good wage. If you do not like it, too bad!

I can guarantee that even if Ford goes after the TTC union with all teeth clenched and it blows up in his face, he will still be wildly popular with most of the city. Face it, REGULAR Torontonians (those who aren't mired by socialist ideals) would pay front row prices to see this specific union get booted.
Who knows. I do not bother making silly assumptions of what may, or may not happen.
 

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Torontonian 4ever
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Drivers work a lot of overtime to reach 100K. If you worked overtime, you would expect to be paid also! It's not "routine" as you claim.
Not just drivers, but ticket collectors. Bus drivers shouldn't be making over 70k in any situation; ticket collectors not more than 50k.

Associating a few bad drivers with 12,000 other employees is typical of right-wing arguments. I have dealt with great employees, and bad ones. Every workplace will have crappy employees. It's sad you right-wingers feel the need to bitch and complain just because others have better jobs than you! It's sad really. Everyone has a right to make a good wage. If you do not like it, too bad!
Well, I guess 90% of Torontonians are crazy right wing nutjobs, because as far as polls go, most agree with me. Btw, making an assumption that I'm complaining because they have a 'better' job is moot because:
a)I'm a student
b)I would rather make 60k doing something professional rather than driving a bus with little to no chance for career advancement.

Who knows. I do not bother making silly assumptions of what may, or may not happen.
Silly assumptions? Weren't you the ones who said whites should be discriminated against more because of something someone did 400 years ago?
 

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Not just drivers, but ticket collectors. Bus drivers shouldn't be making over 70k in any situation; ticket collectors not more than 50k.
You're no authority on what someone should make on a job. That is the problem with you right-wingers. You cannot stand people making more than you! You could never drive a bus, let alone deal with customers, it's astounding why you think you know what drivers should make. The arrogance is astounding!

Well, I guess 90% of Torontonians are crazy right wing nutjobs, because as far as polls go, most agree with me. Btw, making an assumption that I'm complaining because they have a 'better' job is moot because:
a)I'm a student
b)I would rather make 60k doing something professional rather than driving a bus with little to no chance for career advancement.
Sorry, dude. Sun polls do count as real polls. Toronto Sun, and all. 90% of Torontonians will never listen to a whiny student with a chip on his shoulder!

The TTC is working on improving relations between riders, and employees, and I see it everyday. Ridership is still growing, which says the majority of riders seem to be able to put up with the occasional rude driver!

I guess I should answer your bullet points:

a)Could care less if you're a student, even though it makes more sense, since you're angry all the time and whine so much!

b)A bus driver IS a professional! Since you're a student, your opinion really doesn't matter anyways. You're probably the kind of student who think he automatically deserves a high wage, because he has a paper! You're going to be in for a rude surprise! Kind of funny, since many drivers do have good post-secondary education. I know someone who left his good-paying job to drive for the TTC simply because he wanted to drive a bus! It's true!

Silly assumptions? Weren't you the ones who said whites should be discriminated against more because of something someone did 400 years ago?
You're the one who thinks white males are discriminated against in this country. The only way to respond to your idiotic comment was with another idiotic comment! Now will you stop bringing that crap up? You're a racist, I get it. No one wants to hear about it.

ANYWAYS,

The wages of TTC drivers are not really that high. 60K is pretty average these days, and if overtime was not allowed, I am sure you will see service suffer. The best way to deal with the increasing employment costs is to reduce the number of bus drivers. That means replacing crowded, high frequency bus routes with higher capacity vehicles, ala, LRT!
 
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