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Ireland has a plan. Spend 10 million Euros per day, every day for ten whole years on infrastructure, according to a national plan - that's 35 billion in total. (thank you Europe - especially the UK taxpayers) Not bad for a country with only 5 million residents. This plan is called Transport 21. You can view its jaw-dropping ambition and achievements on www.transport21.ie I believe that the UK needs to learn some lessons from the Irish and imitate this type of initiative.

They already failed, where the French succeeded, to create a highspeed rail network. The motorway network is barely adequate. Our cities are failing to meet the needs for modern public transport systems in the face of growing congestion, and rising oil prices. In short, there is no evidence of cohesion. The plan for Manchester is a perfect example. It's as if the city existed as a separate entity.

So, the UK needs a plan, if only we had leaders of vision, imagination and initiative to make it happen.
 

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I think the UK needs devolution, at least on transport to start with. It then needs a body to oversee the national transport network, which must not be based in London- that is absolutely crucial.

I think once those bodies are established a strategy could be drawn up. A strategy drawn up by the DfT/Government would be a joke- I know that before it even happens when they're coming to conclusions that high speed rail is bad because it pollutes.

More importantly than anything, we need increases in funding. Transport is the smallest part of the budget at £20bn; and this is being cut. We recently heard Network Rail were being asked to cut their budget by £1.5bn. Funding for things like healthcare are going up; they don't need to go up anymore. Transport should be our priority now.

At the end of the day, this is the only way to get there. Funding increases. 'Value for Money' needs to be dropped too- it's crippling the UK.
 

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The motorway network is barely adequate. Our cities are failing to meet the needs for modern public transport systems in the face of growing congestion, and rising oil prices. In short, there is no evidence of cohesion. The plan for Manchester is a perfect example. It's as if the city existed as a separate entity.
Just came back from Marseille and their road system was below British Standards, the main train station wasn't better than Leeds or Manchester's Piccadily and their local trains where 30 years old, filthy and full of grafiti. By saying that I really liked the Tram and the weird underground bus/train Metro or whatever it's called.
 

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I've heard that commuter trains do not match up to the TGV trains.

I think our major stations are quite good. We need to improve on our urban transport though, ie tram/metro.
 

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To answer that simply, that is not true. The EU Regional Development Fund is a huge contributor to most of Irelands major transport projects.
 

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http://www.transport21.ie/What_Is_Transport_21/Funding/Funding.html

€26bn from the Irish Government, €8bn from PPP.

None from the EU (esp. after today when the Irish reject the Lisbon treaty).

However, Ireland is also starting from a much more basic transport structure to begin with. The majority of motorways and train services are still only going to Dublin for example. Dublin itself currently has a much worse public transport network than even regional cities like Sheffield.

The motorways that have been built still just stop and you end up back on small country roads pretty quickly. Large sections of railway lines across Ireland are single track - that's 1 single track with trains having to stop at passing points to pass trains going the other way, not 1 single track in each direction.

So, the money they're spending overhere is to get Ireland up to a level that's comparable with the UK - not to get a network that's superior to the UK. It should benefit from having everything 'new' but there's no guarantee that new stuff doesn't have any problems....
 

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To answer that simply, that is not true. The EU Regional Development Fund is a huge contributor to most of Irelands major transport projects.
Erm I only live here and im telling you thats not true anymore. You do see the odd residual project from previous plans that have recieved a percentage from the EU that might have been delayed but I know for a fact that Transport21 programme is not getting any EU aid at all. BTW the EU was never a 'huge' contributer to infrastructure in Ireland. The majority cost of projects was always paid for by the tax payer so your giving Europe a bit too much credit there. Though they have still contributed a sizeable amount.
 

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Current transport in Dublin consists of

Buses
Trains
Electrified DART lines
Trams
Taxi's


Its not as basic as you might think. Its very good depending on where you live. The Western side of the city is not as well served as the East. You have to remember aswell that Ireland does not want a transport system like the UK - its wants one better and is going to have to pay for it. Its a rich country now and the days of the EU helping out are long gone.
 

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Erm - I live in Dublin so I know exactly what the transport options here are.

There's the Dart line - predominantly along the east coast of the city.

There's 2 tram lines - that don't actually join up yet and, until recently as a regular user of the Green line from Dundrum to St Stephens Green, although the tram has only been going for 3 years, it's already incredibly oversubscribed.

The Buses are good. Although there ticketing options are, shall we say, strange. I've just moved where my only public transport option is the bus - but it seems that the cheapest option is to pay as a board rather than get a season ticket or even a pre-pay ticket. It's Eur1.50 for a single trip when you pay to board, so twice a day for 20 days a month that's Eur60. Or, I can get a season ticket for Eur80. Or, I can buy a pre-pay ticket in a shop which will give me 2 trips - for Eur3 (the same as just paying on board). Most other cities are trying to encourage people to switch from coins to tickets, but it seems not overhere.

And any city that has to rely on taxis as a 'public transport' option does not have a proper public transport network. My old hometown of Bristol is just the same.

Now, all the stuff in Transport 21 will fix all this - more tram lines (even joining up the current 2!), an underground metro to finally get the Airport hooked up, an underground DART connection to connect the east and west side of the city. However, even after all that, I'd say that Dublin would have a public transport network comparable, but definately not better, than Manchester, and a long long long way off that of London. Of course, Dublin is smaller than both Manchester and London (around 1.7m in the Greater Dublin Area, compared to 2.2m in Greater Manchester and 8.3m in the Greater London area).
 

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To be fair, Dublin really needs the investment in public transport and new road infrastructure. The traffic in Dublin is terrible, anything that helps reduce it is very welcome.
 
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You have to remember aswell that Ireland does not want a transport system like the UK - its wants one better and is going to have to pay for it.
So presumably the Irish plan is for a network of high speed lines and light rail networks in every city?

As popular as the UK transport system is for negative comments Ireland would be doing pretty well to match it.

Regarding the topic title, yes we need a joined up transport strategy and we need one which is looking ahead to 2050 at least. But we don't want one like Ireland's because such a plan would not serve us well at all and would fail to meet any of our transport needs.

Personally I think we should sell off our motorways and the rights to build new ones and operate them. The money raised can then be used to finance new railway lines and upgrades the existing ones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I have to agree with the comments about the high speed trains in Ireland. There aren't any, nor does there seem to be any plans for any. The Belfast/Dublin Enterprise is a disgrace, but you know my thoughts on that. It took me three and half hours to get to Dublin on it on Tuesday morning this week because it was broken before it even left Belfast. I missed a meeting as a consequence. It happens all the time, but Translink have describe me as an habitual complainer in a letter sent to the local Consumer Council, despite ALL of my complaints about lateness/delays being upheld (grounds for deformation of character/libel?)

Any, I digress. My main point was, and remains that Ireland has a plan, which makes sense and can be looked at. The UK has nothing similar. I think this is a serious omission; a missed opportunity and an indicator of delinquent governance.
 

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So presumably the Irish plan is for a network of high speed lines and light rail networks in every city?

No because most cities outside Dublin are not big enough. I think Galway had a tram system announced on Monday. Cork needs alot of investment aswell. Ireland is a small country and we are rightly proud of our plans which are happening and I believe we will have a very comprehensive transport system in the end. Dublin is getting a Metro and an underground DART line and loads of new tram lines. What else do we need? We already have Europes longest underground motorway tunnel from the Airport to the docks - alot of motorways under construction. We dont need anything else. High speed trains are part of future plans and the current fleet is being added to and is completely new except for the link with Belfast which is dire I have to admit but I disagree with you these plans are merely reaching 'UK standards'.........they go well beyond what is in every UK city with the exception of London. We dont need hundreds of km's of underground.
 
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Any, I digress. My main point was, and remains that Ireland has a plan, which makes sense and can be looked at. The UK has nothing similar. I think this is a serious omission; a missed opportunity and an indicator of delinquent governance.
I agree, there is no long term plan for the UK - just piece meal suggestions which act nothing like long term joined up thinking. Unfortuantley I think too many people are more bothered about other things and transport is not yet a vote winner.
 
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but I disagree with you these plans are merely reaching 'UK standards'.........they go well beyond what is in every UK city with the exception of London. We dont need hundreds of km's of underground.
Merely?

The UK does have a few transport success stories, as I said previously a country with Ireland's population matching some of that would be quite an achievement.

I would argue that what Dublin is getting (I presume that's what you're referring to for your last bit) does not go well beyond what cities like Newcastle, Sheffield, Manchester, Birmingham and Liverpool already have.

And Ireland does have the unique advantage in that it virtually has a blank slate from which to build on. Nothing much to get in the way of building plans, so having to keep an existing extensive operation open at the same time is not a primary concern like it would be in the UK.
 
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Lib Dems will never get an opportunity to put their plans into motion because they don't appeal to the clueless muppet bullshit eating voter brigade.

This country gets what it deserves from it's Government, if anybody seriously thinks Labour or Conservative are going to do anything meaningful for this country then they need a mental evaluation.
 
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