There is also no free space on Eastern side to expand. It is also highly questionable if the logistics of traveling to and from the stadium would still be doable with a significantly increased capacity. The stadium is just fine as it is. No real need for a new, even larger one imho.
DORTMUND - Signal Iduna Park / Westfalenstadion (81,359) - UEFA EURO 2024
BV Borussia Dortmund
8x League:
1956, 1957, 1963, 1995, 1996,
2002, 2011, 2012
5x Cup:
1965, 1989, 2012, 2017, 2021
6x Supercup: (record)
1989, 1995, 1996, 2008, 2013,
2014
1x UEFA Champions League:
1997
1x UEFA Cup Winners' Cup:
1966
1x FIFA Club World Cup:
1997
Capacity:
53,872 (1974–1992)
42,800 (1992–1996)
54,000 (1996–1999)
68,600 (1999–2003)
83,000 (2003–2005)
81,264 (2005–2006)
80,708 (2006–2008)
80,552 (2008–2010)
80,720 (2010–2012)
80,645 (2012–)(League Matches)
65,590 (International Matches)
Country: Germany
City: Dortmund
Capacity: 83.000
Team: Borussia Dortmund 09 (My favorite team)
(This picture is from the stadiums earlier stage, when they didn't have any seats in the corners yet)
This one's just for show
:
So is this one:
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421 - 440 of 471 Posts
They can just extend them. And there is space behind three stands except the east one. But I think more than anything Dortmund needs more VIP seating. The number of fans is fine, they are a big club and some will always be left wanting more tickets. The problem is that they don't make enough money out of it because of so few VIP seating.a 3rd tier is impossible. The current two ones are too steep. And there isn't space behind the Südtribüne
Even on the east side its possible. They could include the existing stand of the small stadium into the new building or they could make some arc above this stand.
^^ That would be a real stretch, imho too much of a stretch. The current stadium is already on several limits when looking at it or visiting it, though I do like it a lot.
If Dortmund would go bigger, it is by far the best solution to go new. But where could they go? Which site could manage a very large stadium with a capacity of say 100,000 fans? And would they want to go? :dunno: My guess is they have no real intention to move.
If Dortmund would go bigger, it is by far the best solution to go new. But where could they go? Which site could manage a very large stadium with a capacity of say 100,000 fans? And would they want to go? :dunno: My guess is they have no real intention to move.
Well, when they build another „ring“ around the stadium the limitations would be eliminated because this new extension would have some capacity. And instead of moving the stadium to another place they should move some of the surrounding buildings to other places like the Tennis club „Eintracht“ or the Dortmunder equestrian club (I think its a bad place for horses anyway). They also can get rid of some parking areas if they create one or two car park buildings.
A completly new stadium? Would be easier. A nice place would have been somewhere at Westfalenhütte area because thats right next to the founding place „Borsigplatz“. But as far as I know there isnt much space left after alot of logistics and industrie occupied most of the ground there.
A completly new stadium? Would be easier. A nice place would have been somewhere at Westfalenhütte area because thats right next to the founding place „Borsigplatz“. But as far as I know there isnt much space left after alot of logistics and industrie occupied most of the ground there.
^^ Can the site manage another ring? Can parking and P&R handle another ring? Can the S-Bahn manage the load of another ring? The sightlines will only get worse, since the original stadium was actually not designed to be expanded. How will that pan out? What would the stadium look like with another ring? It won't get prettier imho.
I repeat myself: If Borussia Dortmund wants to go bigger, only a completely new stadium on an even better site (though I have no idea where that could be in the Dortmund area) could do the job. I don't see that happening anytime soon, especially since the waiting list has been around for ages and has not lead to going even bigger.
I repeat myself: If Borussia Dortmund wants to go bigger, only a completely new stadium on an even better site (though I have no idea where that could be in the Dortmund area) could do the job. I don't see that happening anytime soon, especially since the waiting list has been around for ages and has not lead to going even bigger.
What other upgrades must be made to the Westfalenstadion in order for it to host a Champions League Final (aside from the VIP-seating issue)? I was thinking now would be the appropriate time to ask this seeing as the Allianz Arena and Berlin's Olympic Stadium have already hosted the CL Final this decade, and the Westfalenstadion would be the only other suitable German venue if the right upgrades are made to it. 65,000 is enough for the CL Final, and it will be boring to go back to the exact same venues in one country every five years.
I am worried, however, that if any corporate boxes and other new VIP facilities were added to the Westfalenstadion, it would kill its atmosphere.
Besides, the 2001 UEFA Cup Final took place before the Westfalenstadion was expanded to its current capacity. How big is too big to host an Europa League Final? Baku's Olympic Stadium is larger than the Westfalenstadion, and that's hosting the EL final next year.
I am worried, however, that if any corporate boxes and other new VIP facilities were added to the Westfalenstadion, it would kill its atmosphere.
Besides, the 2001 UEFA Cup Final took place before the Westfalenstadion was expanded to its current capacity. How big is too big to host an Europa League Final? Baku's Olympic Stadium is larger than the Westfalenstadion, and that's hosting the EL final next year.
^^ As far as I know a CL-Final requires a minimum of 63.000 seats and a EL-final requires 50.000 seats. I don't think the CL-final will ever go to Dortmund's stadium with so much stiff, newer and more business oriented stadiums which are popping up all over Europe. A EL-final however is a possibility imho, even though the stadium lacks commercial/business facilities compared to the newer ones being built. But I am not sure about this.
Does anyone know whether Borussia Dortmund and/or the City of Dortmund have any interest in hosting a EL-Final? :dunno:
Does anyone know whether Borussia Dortmund and/or the City of Dortmund have any interest in hosting a EL-Final? :dunno:
For an EL final makes more sense the surrounding cities (Dusseldorf, Cologne, Gelsenkirchen) hosting it than Dortmund. I guess that for UEFA 65k is too big for an EL Final and Dortmund ground (because the lack of corporate boxes) won't host the UCL Final.
"Well, but Baku with a huge ground is hosting the EL" I'm pretty sure that It only got the EL because, despite the political ($$$) strenght of their bid, they lost the UCL Final (their objective) to a way bigger political force to get the UCL Final (Madrid). In other scenarios with only a few exceptions (such as important UEFA countries such as Spain, England, Germany, Italy) It would get the UCL final for sure and let the EL final for other most suitable places.
"Well, but Baku with a huge ground is hosting the EL" I'm pretty sure that It only got the EL because, despite the political ($$$) strenght of their bid, they lost the UCL Final (their objective) to a way bigger political force to get the UCL Final (Madrid). In other scenarios with only a few exceptions (such as important UEFA countries such as Spain, England, Germany, Italy) It would get the UCL final for sure and let the EL final for other most suitable places.
The VIP seating is a large issue as it's not easy to adapt the stadium for one game.
I took a tour of the stadium the other day. I'm sorry, I really don't understand the hype going on around this stadium. It offers much less comfort for the spectators than other stadiums. In addition, it looks very unharmonious due to the many construction stages, the architectural style is VERY simple, you can see a lot of grey concrete.
I laughed almost loudly when the tour guide greeted us with the words "Welcome to the most beautiful stadium in the world".
The stadium has 14 boxes, apparently it was simply forgotten during planning.
Even the Veltins Arena, 27 kilometres away, has almost 80 boxes.
The Signal Iduna Park will never get a CL final, there are dozens of stadiums in Europe that are much nicer and better.
I laughed almost loudly when the tour guide greeted us with the words "Welcome to the most beautiful stadium in the world".
The stadium has 14 boxes, apparently it was simply forgotten during planning.
Even the Veltins Arena, 27 kilometres away, has almost 80 boxes.
The Signal Iduna Park will never get a CL final, there are dozens of stadiums in Europe that are much nicer and better.
Though I agree with your factual analysis I guess this stadium is so very popular amongst football fans all over the world because of it's great atmosphere. Always sold out and the Yellow Wall make it a unique and iconic place, though many more stadiums are iconic.I'm sorry, I really don't understand the hype going on around this stadium.
It also has a English touch to it with the stand so close and steep to the pitch and the differently shaped stands also resemble in a way some English stadiums imho. So I do think it is possible to host an EL-Final here, but the CL-Final is out of its reach. Business wise for an EL-Final the Veltins Arena Auf Schalke is better, though significantly smaller. But the business areas there are so much better and were enough (under the old UEFA-rules) to host a CL-Final there which makes it hard for Dortmund to ever host a European Final again.
Since the Veltins Arena has already hosted a CL final and a Uefa Cup final in Dortmund, the DFB will certainly support applications from other cities, such as Frankfurt, Düsseldorf, Cologne and above all Stuttgart (home of Mercedes Benz, the main DFB sponsor).
It's popular because it doesn't bend to the unsavoury commercialisation of football like other stadiums.I took a tour of the stadium the other day. I'm sorry, I really don't understand the hype going on around this stadium.
It's not about being the comfiest place to watch football it's about being the most exciting and getting fans involved in the action.It offers much less comfort for the spectators than other stadiums.
That's called history and character, it makes it unique like Old Trafford, Anfield, etc, and not a boring bowlIn addition, it looks very unharmonious due to the many construction stages, the architectural style is VERY simple, you can see a lot of grey concrete.
It's not beautiful when it's empty but when it's got fans in it it undoubtedly is.I laughed almost loudly when the tour guide greeted us with the words "Welcome to the most beautiful stadium in the world".
Not forgotten just not valued over true fans. I've watched matches in boxes before and it's awful, people talk to you about stuff other than the match during it, nobody sings, it's just not how football should be, the lack of boxes is a plus in my eyes.The stadium has 14 boxes, apparently it was simply forgotten during planning.
No there aren't it's a true football ground not a stale corporate arena. It's just what every ground should aim to be, close to the action, loud, seats if you want, safe standing if you want, cheap entry.Even the Veltins Arena, 27 kilometres away, has almost 80 boxes.
The Signal Iduna Park will never get a CL final, there are dozens of stadiums in Europe that are much nicer and better.
It's popular because it doesn't bend to the unsavoury commercialisation of football like other stadiums. /QUOTE]
Borussia Dortmund is THE pioneer in the commercialisation of football in Germany! You can be sure that Borussia Dortmund stands for commercialisation in football! In many ways!
Not forgotten just not valued over true fans. I've watched matches in boxes before and it's awful, people talk to you about stuff other than the match during it, nobody sings, it's just not how football should be, the lack of boxes is a plus in my eyes./QUOTE]
The question of the boxes was discussed because of a possible application of the stadium for a CL final.
In the Veltins Arena all 80 boxes are fully booked and I can tell you from my own experience that it does not negatively affect the values for the fans in the normal seats in any way. They help the club to finance the construction and operating costs for the stadium and to keep the tickets for the cheaper areas affordable.
It's not about being the comfiest place to watch football it's about being the most exciting and getting fans involved in the action./QUOTE]
You just didn't get it.
It's just what every ground should aim to be, close to the action, loud, seats if you want, safe standing if you want, cheap entry.QUOTE]
Many other stadiums in Germany offer this without being as exaggeratedly transfigured as this stadium. Cologne and Frankfurt are special examples, where the atmosphere is generally recognized as much better than in Dortmund.
^^ The quoting in your post is sloppy which makes it quite hard to read. So I have brushed things up for you.
Borussia Dortmund is THE pioneer in the commercialisation of football in Germany! You can be sure that Borussia Dortmund stands for commercialisation in football! In many ways!It's popular because it doesn't bend to the unsavoury commercialisation of football like other stadiums.
The question of the boxes was discussed because of a possible application of the stadium for a CL final. In the Veltins Arena all 80 boxes are fully booked and I can tell you from my own experience that it does not negatively affect the values for the fans in the normal seats in any way. They help the club to finance the construction and operating costs for the stadium and to keep the tickets for the cheaper areas affordable.Not forgotten just not valued over true fans. I've watched matches in boxes before and it's awful, people talk to you about stuff other than the match during it, nobody sings, it's just not how football should be, the lack of boxes is a plus in my eyes.
You just didn't get it.It's not about being the comfiest place to watch football it's about being the most exciting and getting fans involved in the action.
Many other stadiums in Germany offer this without being as exaggeratedly transfigured as this stadium. Cologne and Frankfurt are special examples, where the atmosphere is generally recognized as much better than in Dortmund.It's just what every ground should aim to be, close to the action, loud, seats if you want, safe standing if you want, cheap entry.
Hahahaa **** off ****, go back to your sofa to watch your "game" and eat your popcorn, this stadium is not for you, it's for really football fans.
Just stop. I am arguably the biggest BVB supporter around here and the lack of income from the stadium compared to other elite European teams is hurting them every year.It's popular because it doesn't bend to the unsavoury commercialisation of football like other stadiums.
It's not about being the comfiest place to watch football it's about being the most exciting and getting fans involved in the action.
That's called history and character, it makes it unique like Old Trafford, Anfield, etc, and not a boring bowl
It's not beautiful when it's empty but when it's got fans in it it undoubtedly is.
Not forgotten just not valued over true fans. I've watched matches in boxes before and it's awful, people talk to you about stuff other than the match during it, nobody sings, it's just not how football should be, the lack of boxes is a plus in my eyes.
No there aren't it's a true football ground not a stale corporate arena. It's just what every ground should aim to be, close to the action, loud, seats if you want, safe standing if you want, cheap entry.
That is why they have to replace outgoing stars every summer which then hurt the style the team plays and ultimately prevents them from establishing itself as the very top end of the football world.
A few extra tiers of VIP boxes would not have hurt the atmosphere at all. It was just short-sighted planning that prevented it from happening. Look at the new Tottenham stadium or the Chelsea plan. They both try to incorporate the "kop"-like stand for ultras with extensive VIP seating for revenues. You need both to excel as a team.
^^ They could still add quite a lot of business units but they will most likely lose overall capacity because of it. Financially it might make a lot of sense though. But that it up to the management of the club to decide.
GEwinnen, you compare apples and oranges. The Westfalenstadion in its core is from 1974. The first expansion of main and opposite stand was started in the mid 90s. I'm sure if the club and architects could start all over today with the 1974 stadium as basis they would do alot of things differently. Still they couldn't start from scratch and plan every detail without barriers or restrictions as was done for the Arena Auf Schalke. It was a year-long process, and in my opinion lead to a great stadium and I always liked to be there-despite its flaws.
And atmosphere is created by people, not by concrete.
And atmosphere is created by people, not by concrete.
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