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Silver Lake
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rgolch said:
Lot of frikken' snow. But I think it's gonna be a baumy 34 degrees today (which is warmer than it has been in days). By the way, good post. Its better to think these things out before typing, rather than just firing off emotionally charged comments, which always end up being incredible exaggerations of someone's real feelings (Vangelist?).
Oh wait up! Guess my post got twisted. I was paying the highest homage to "Vangelist"! I was shocked that you still had more in you after dealing with NYgirl! Then you came back and ended this thread with both guns a-fuckin-blazin! Anything said about LA from any Chicago poster from this point onward just seems like a weak reach. Unfortunately some of the LA posters on here seem to take way too much shit from other cities. They don't understand that they live in a city that has kicked every other cities ass(with the exception of NYC) on pretty much every level. Went from absolutely nothing 100 years ago to fashioning itself as one of the most culturally significant and important cities to have ever existed.

And about thinking things out before typing, if you go back the 9 pages or so, you will see that Chicago posters don't even know what that is. I said it once and I'll say it again, "I don't know what Chicago has to do with any of this", seeing that whoever created this thread was comparing LA's downtown to NYC! I'm glad Vangelist went left. Someone finally had too.
 

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I don't have the time or patience to go through all 9 pages. But as I said on my first post of this thread, I will agree that this thread was hijacked. I think most people believe these subforums are not meant to get off track from the specific city topic. I only ended up trolling around because I was genuinely interested in the latest developments in LA. When I saw the title of this thread, I knew one of my compadres in the Chicago forum would run to it like fools gold.

But with that said, I generally agree with chicagogeorge that you have to have thick enough skin to tolerate peoples opinions. And this is, indeed, a public forum. I guess I just view it as mildly impolite, because not every section of this forum is meant as a battle ground. That should be reserved the the "city vs. city" section.
 

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Silver Lake
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"But with that said, I generally agree with chicagogeorge that you have to have thick enough skin to tolerate peoples opinions."

That's the "why do you make me hit you" logic.
Thick skin is one thing but to become a disparaging transient on a thread that specifically excludes you, i.e. "Downtown LA already more like NY" cannot be softened by the now mitigating words blowing in from the windy city. It will do you some good to find the patience and go back a few pages and read the rabid emotionally charged comments coming from Chicago, it will help to put your bewonderment in context.
 

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Downtown LA very well may be begening to look like New York. But what about the rest of LA? The parts where a significant portion of the population actually lives?

With all the new condos going up all over town, how many of them are actually mixed use, in that retail is going to be mixed into neighborhoods and densify as well? From what I saw, it wasn't that much.

I know there are certain neighborhoods where it is possible to walk to places to eat and shop and such, but seriously, its not like other cities. For example, I lived at park LaBrea. There is absolutely no retail around there, except for on Wilshire, where there isn't much even then. There were like 2 restaurants in the neighborhood. In any other city there would have been corner stores all over the neighborhood. It doesn't seem like LA is working very hard to become a more pedestrian friendly city. Having population density without density in retail is an easy way to create a huge traffic problem.
 

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And whats all this retard-talk about wealty people not using transit? They do. They just don't ride busses. Busses are pointless if you have your own car and money, because youre just going to be stuck in traffic anyways. Why the hell do you think they're working so hard to get a light rail line that parallels the 10? Oh yeah, because it's definatly not wealthy people that are commuting between the westside and downtown.
 

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Man, did you just say theres nothing around Park La Brea? Maybe you were there before the Grove, I dunno, but even before you had the farmer's market, La Brea just down the street, Melrose up the street, tons of stuff off of 3rd street. Go up to Beverly and theres tons of shopping and eating. Maybe you mean within walking distance, but that problem has been fixed since the Grove went up and handfuls of other restaurants have come just across the street from PLB.
 

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The City
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rgolch said:
When I saw the title of this thread, I knew one of my compadres in the Chicago forum would run to it like fools gold.
^Yeah, but you kinda can't help it when you read nonsense like this:

Yakumoto said:
Downtown LA very well may be begening to look like New York.
I mean, they actually think that by building a couple of tall buildings with ground level shops that they've finally "figured it out" and are certainly only a few years away from becoming New York. The audacity and utterly ridiculous mentality that would lead to such thinking shows that many of these people have never walked the streets of Manhattan. LA should be lucky if, within 50 years, they develop a downtown even remotely close to Philadelphia's or Boston's
 

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Silver Lake
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Thank God LA isn't trying to be one of those "has-been" cities of the likes of Philidelphia or Boston. Please help us Mother Mary, the Valley is bigger than any one of those cities. Philidelphia's pop is where it was 100 years ago! Their are more people living in South Central than in all of Boston. Boston is only 48 sq miles, roughly the size of my apartment! But then again, I realize who is posting. You promised to leave. Why do you lie?

Oh boy, DC! America's closet.
 

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The Urban Politician said:
^Yeah, but you kinda can't help it when you read nonsense like this:
I really did not want to come back to this thread, but poor judgement got the best of me.

I say this at the risk of sounding like I'm conspiring with the enemy, but WHO CARES! Yeah, LA is nothing like NY. That's a GOOD thing. That means its unique. And it proves that you don't HAVE to have insane density and be enclosed by highrises to be an international icon. And yeah, maybe some LA forumers may come off as being arrogant. But I've been around this forum long enough to see how some of us Chicago forumers come off. I'll leave it at that.

And to klamedia, the "mitigating winds" I was blowing was my attempt to give LA forumers a different perspective, so as to not stereotype all Chicago forumers. I would have hoped my "olive branch" or "damage control" would have not been met with hostility. More evidence this thread has spun out of control.
 

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Oh Klamedia, my bad - I thought when you had said "ended this thread" that I had ruined it. You're welcome..of course I'll always defend my current home(town) with guns a blazing. It's still the wild wild west out here when we want it to be =)

Yakomoron is still not getting it. We don't WANT Los Angeles to be like New York or any other old-world, pedestrian eastern city - THAT'S WHY WE LOVE LOS ANGELES, (despite the stupid title of this thread.) People like Klamedia and I have been very clear and vocal that LA pioneered a new model of urbanity, the multi-nodal, multi-polar centerless city... albeit one THAT HAS MANY DIFFERENT CENTERS. One that will ALWAYS be car-dependent to a certain extent, and guess what - THAT'S FINE since it's so vast and complex, offering more in sheer size AND variety than any other city out there. I love the fact that I can drive from Santa Monica to Koreatown down Pico and feel like i've driven through multiple countries (Irangeles and Mexico on the way!). Los Angeles does not WANT to become all dense/pedestrian (no point! it's just not how we ARE), but the fact that in parts that is increasing is only to its benefit, as it gives people more OPTIONS of different lifestyles they want to live. You can't say that about NYC - you only have ONE option (or most do, for how many own cars there?): to icily sludge through the sludge on your way to work when it's 20 degrees in February or melt through the palpable human sweat on a reeking-like-piss subway in August.

How many times do we have to say here that our city is not inferior to any other because we don't have tall buildings - oh wait, this is skyscraper city, so you're not listening. You want us to build large, ugly, soulless monstrosities as in Toronto or Dubai, and then when we get an earthquake we'll all die and you'll be happy....not gonna happen. We're more practical than attempting to please scaper-struck 17 year olds who wish we were "taller."

In fact, we don't have to build even a SINGLE skyscraper (OR subway) and we'll still be more wealthy, more important, more significant than all American cities with the exception of NYC, whom we're on par with. THIS is why they resent us (as NYgirl once admitted, she has "disregard" for LA since it looks "suburban")...we look so "ugly" (short) and yet we're still so powerful, that many of these inferior/insignificant cities wonder why they don't get more press when they have gleaming, hollow, empty structures. "Hey" they say, "we look so nice...we should be more important than shithole Hollywood. We're more deserving...we have better public transit!" Denial. Hundreds of cities have taller buildings and better public transit than LA... and I'd live in none of them, since for the complete urban experience, no city would offer me as much, with as much variety and freedom, as LA.

The concept of having a city with a definite "center" is so 20th century..sorry. We're superior to all you older cities precisely because we have multiple centers - and a variety of landscapes, a variety of options for getting around (Klamedia doesn't own a car, and he/she's doing JUST FINE). If you moved to Los Angeles from the East Coast (as I did, 7 years ago!) and you didn't like it - IT'S YOUR PROBLEM - not Los Angeles'...you were too weak to adapt and adjust to a new city, and it says volumes more about your attitude (and ability to adapt to change, or embrace it) than it does about the city. Don't blame THE CITY if you didn't make it here - which is always what failed actors and other aspiring entertainment hopefuls do when they come to the City of Dreams and watch their lives become unfulfilling nightmares. It's harder to "make it" here I believe than even NYC - where everything is centralized, simple. We're more complex, and (usually demanding, impatient, or downright rude if they're NYers) East Coasters can't handle it. Here is what a friend of mine (native NYer, now happy Angeleno) wrote to someone who was whining about how NYC isn't LA:

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As a native New Yorker, let me tell you that Los Angeles is deceptively sophisticated, unpredictable and way more byzantine than the mentality of most New Yorkers can get around.

The completed trajectory of your social and personal adjustment to LA domiciling will take between 2 and 3 years. Just when you think you've got it, something happens which will most certainly call the ultimateness of your highly developed New York sensibilities into question. Rest assured, in advance, that there are always excellent reasons for these discordant experiences. You will need to allow yourself time as well as trial and error to figure it all out.

New York is not the center of the world, even though it likes to think that it is. When you move to LA, your whole concept of "centralization" will be unceremoniously undone.

Can you handle this? You can if youre openminded, patient, and mature.

Best of luck to you.



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Klamedia, I would just flat out ignore any Chicagoan posters here, especially after a) you politely asked them "what does Chicago have to do with any of this?" and b) I unambiguously told them to **** off since they're hijacking our space and c) my last post again very politely asked if it's not too much to expect them to stop trolling here and comparing LA to their little lakefront Midwestern hamlet (ha!:) based on, um, ill-defined concepts of "urbanity."

You were nice. i was aggressive. Then I was nice. Now you, don't get aggressive - just ignore them. Chicagoans are very insecure due to their identity crisis; they perpetually want attention. Let's not give it to them.
 

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Silver Lake
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Rgolch-After that "blitzkrieg" from the Chicago posters I think it has left alot of us in battle mode. Even your kind words at this point is like stroking a third degree burn. Like Vangelist said, criticism is one thing. Outright lies is yet another. The tackiness and visciousness of the Chicago posters hasn't cast a good light on your city. Honestly, it has been the worst thing I've seen come out of Chicago since that R. Kelly tape a few years back.
 

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Silver Lake
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And rgolch since you won't go back and read the quotes, I'll bring a quote to you from one of your fellow Chicagoans.

Quickdraw said:
I dont bite tongues that's just the way we're raised on the Southside so Klamedia can basically eat a dick and shut the **** up. I couldn't deal Los Angeles, that sprawl stuff is junk to me. It's like a big ass suburb with like 8 tall buildings in the sky. That's not a city. I'll stay in the Midwest/East where the word urban actually means something. The cities' features all co-exist out here, from the low rise houses, to the high rises, to the trains that go under and over, just everything. I'm not talking about sidewalks with fingerprints.
I mean, this poster has the written communictation skills of a Rotweiler!
 

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"Urban Politician's" latest post is particularly insipid since for the past 70 years, Downtown LA has (stood in) / been filmed ... INFINITELY COUNTLESS times...not only as Boston or Philly, but also as Chicago and New York. :) In fact, one of the last times I was at the 4th and Spring intersection, they had allthese Subway signs out since they were making it Manhattan for Spiderman 3.
 

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Silver Lake
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Thanx Vangelist. As someone who has moved from NYC(so many of us have, it's filling up fast with all those Sex and the city wannabees)LA is very if not extremely tough to get. I love New York and always will. New York is inviting. It may have a tough exterior but that's just a ploy to get you more interested. Then it opens up and you are in a horse drawn carriage in spring, marvelling up at those man made mountains that we call skyscrapers feeling all tingly and loved by the world. ::SPLIT:: The 405/101 interchange trying your damndest to get downtown. Being non-audibly cursed the **** out, honked at and cut off.
I hope that LA does find the time to carve out a bit more romanticism with the coming Grand Ave project, the developing Hollywood/Highland to Vine stroll, the re-opening of the Griffith Observatory hopefully with cable cars, more rail projects with a one seat ride from downtown to the beach and the rescuing of the LA River.
And you are right. This century LA will fashion itself into a pedestrian friendly but still car accesible city, if that is possible.
 

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klamedia said:
Rgolch-After that "blitzkrieg" from the Chicago posters I think it has left alot of us in battle mode. Even your kind words at this point is like stroking a third degree burn. Like Vangelist said, criticism is one thing. Outright lies is yet another. The tackiness and visciousness of the Chicago posters hasn't cast a good light on your city. Honestly, it has been the worst thing I've seen come out of Chicago since that R. Kelly tape a few years back.
I've been posting periodically in the L.A. forum for over a year. I really don't think there are more than a dozen forumers here. Most seem to be teenagers. L.A. sportsfan is very level headed, I also had intellectual (yet lively) debates with L.A Universe, who I haven't heard from for several months. Usually, I try to stay objective. Of course sometimes emotions get the best of us.
 

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Yakomoron is still not getting it. We don't WANT Los Angeles to be like New York or any other old-world, pedestrian eastern city - THAT'S WHY WE LOVE LOS ANGELES, (despite the stupid title of this thread.) People like Klamedia and I have been very clear and vocal that LA pioneered a new model of urbanity, the multi-nodal, multi-polar centerless city... albeit one THAT HAS MANY DIFFERENT CENTERS.
Having density, the sort of density like in eastern cities (which los angeles has) is pointless if you have to drive anywhere. Just like where i lived, there's too much traffic and no parking; it doesn't work. You are basically making the argument that LA should try to be a series of suburbs, exactly like Orange county or san jose...if being "centerless" and not pedestrian oriented is a "model of urbanity", then how the hell would you define "suburban"? If LA isn't trying to become a pedestrian eastern city, its doing a pretty shitty job of being a "auto" city.
 

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Wow some of the people in this thread seriously live in fantasy land! You seriously think you're "superior" because of some discrepancy in building patterns? Give me a break. Put it this way, and this is coming from someone FROM California.... Los Angeles, if it continues to grow, expand, and mature, will look MORE like places like Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago.... than LESS like these places, as time goes on. This is a fact--acting like you are way ahead of these cities in terms of an urban identity and a true urban lifestyle just makes you look either stupid or duped. Get some freakin' perspective and a healthy dose of humility for pete's sake--your view will be much more in the real world. I am in total disbelief that people in here, rather than giving props to these more dense, central eastern cores, which is what LA will look more and more like since it has no room to grow out and must grow up... are instead just acting like these places are the "old models" and the "new model" is basically.... sprawl! The new model is centerless? God help us! It is hilarious to watch actually especially coming from people that live in a city that is working at creating a more unified and magnet center itself!

As far as all of Urban Politician's post, THE GUY IS RIGHT THROUGH AND THROUGH and some of your egos just can't handle the possibility. It sounds like some people just can't handle the possibility that cities that are perceived to be "in decline" or "inferior" to "mighty LA" are actually much more developed and are cities LA should strive TOWARD rather than thumbing your nose at. It just makes you look ignorant and like you live in some bubble if you don't give props to places like Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, etc., and realize these cities in many ways reflect the future of LA. Many things about these cities should be the GOALS of Los Angeles. The goal has never been, and never will be, "multiple centers in search of a city." That's such a cop out and all you are saying is "because we have it, it must be superior." You can say you like it, and admit to it not being inherently "inferior," but acting like it is "superior" and "the new model" is a total, complete joke to those who don't need to massage their ego regarding LA.
 

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Vangelist said:
Los Angeles does not WANT to become all dense/pedestrian (no point! it's just not how we ARE), but the fact that in parts that is increasing is only to its benefit, as it gives people more OPTIONS of different lifestyles they want to live. You can't say that about NYC - you only have ONE option (or most do, for how many own cars there?): to icily sludge through the sludge on your way to work when it's 20 degrees in February or melt through the palpable human sweat on a reeking-like-piss subway in August.
Exactly, all those people in Queens. They have to live in high rises because there aren't any single family houses. Too bad people don't have OPTIONS of different lifestyles.

Yeah, when I was there, there weren't any cars because nobody drives in NYC, they dont have the option. Same with a city like San Francisco. You can only take the subway, because there aren't any options. All those garages are just for show...Just like they were in Brooklyn.
 
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