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mohammed wong said:
I used to slam LA, but I trully believe YOU CANT SLAM an area unless you have lived there. LA is very urban, its just more spread out urban, but you have to check it out yourself, LA is not an obvious city that you get right away, I would hardly call it sprawled in the modern sense. The density will continue to increase. NOpe its easy and ignorant to slam LA, and I am saying this as a chicagoan. Its wrong to slam LA, its a freakin awesome place.
Are californians too overboard with their love fot their city? Yes, sometimes, I was too when I was there, and I really miss it there and hope to have a place there some day. :(
^I have been there many times, actually. I guess I"m not seeing what you're seeing.

I like LA's new mayor, and I like the new efforts and I am fully aware that there is a hurricane of new construction going on. Somehow, though, I think LA is catching the "urban" boat too late. Cheap labor, cheap materials, and a very pro-transit environment 100 years ago is what allowed Chicago, NY, Boston, SF etc develop the way they did. Cities like those did not completely dismantle their transit systems, and now they simply need to create infill on already established urban corridors.

With what was once perhaps the largest transit system in the US, LA threw away most of its transit infrastructure and replaced it with highways. Even with its current intentions of reversing this trend, VERY high costs of materials and labor are going to make a major revision of the cityscape nearly impossible. Add to that the fact that the world oil supply will reach a critical shortage fairly soon, thus mass-construction will certainly slow down to a near-halt within our lifetimes. I hate to say it, but I totally disagree with your viewpoints on this
 

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mohammed wong said:
I dont agree with this, I lived in LA for four years and I really miss it there.
LA and NY are the two best cities in america, and yes I can see how some people see the rest of the country as flyover.
However I grew up in chicago so I like the top three immensely and wouldnt want to live in a smaller city than the top three for good.

The top three in culture are also the top three in population.
LA will increase with their density over time, it has the overwhelming culture and diversity of newyork, just spread out, and it sure has the traffic.

LA is similar to newyork and will become MORESO as condo prices in LA catch to Newyork and are already compareable in many areas.

I used to slam LA, but I trully believe YOU CANT SLAM an area unless you have lived there. LA is very urban, its just more spread out urban, but you have to check it out yourself, LA is not an obvious city that you get right away, I would hardly call it sprawled in the modern sense. The density will continue to increase. NOpe its easy and ignorant to slam LA, and I am saying this as a chicagoan. Its wrong to slam LA, its a freakin awesome place.
Are californians too overboard with their love fot their city? Yes, sometimes, I was too when I was there, and I really miss it there and hope to have a place there some day. :(

LA is a city that takes years to get. I used to go there alot when I was a teenager for vacation and I didnt dig it that much, but in my early and mid twenties I grew to love it. LA is a city that grows on you. I feel sorry for people that prejudge it and who will never see it for what it truly is.

I would take LA over NY however as its weather is much better.

preach on!

i dont see why we have to continually compare LA and NY and Chicago. they are different places. LA will be a city in the future that blends the best of both worlds, with a very dense urban core (Downtown to Hollywood to Central City ot the Wilshire Corridor out to North Hollywood) that has highrise living, mass transit and the 24 hour vibe, we will have the amazing beach cities, and we will have great suburbs such as Pasadena (more and more urban eveyday, one of my favorite places anywhere), Long Beach (ditto), Glendale, and more tradititional suburbs out in the valleys. i love it here and the future is very bright.
 

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Wow, its good to see an outsider say these things. I find outside of ssc & ssp LA certainly isn't viewed with this much negativity. I'm like mohammed wong, I would perfer to live in LA, NYC, or Chicago. There are times when I could use a slower pace city, with less traffic, and crazyness. Yet the more I think about living in a smaller city, deep down I know its not for me. Even living in Chicago back in the early 90's was little disappointing for me. It was always fun when I visit, so I thought it would fun to live there. When I finally moved to Chicago, I found myself looking for a reason to leave. Los Angeles was looking ever more greener. So in reality I didn't realize how much I love living in LA here until I moved away. One thing for sure I loved the dramatic seasonal changes. Autumn was so awesome in Chicago, but summers were a bit of a drag. I hated the never ending heat, and muggy summers. Rain was a bit more for my taste during this season. Don't get me wrong I love rain, but to a Californian thats only suppose to happen in the winter. Summer to a native angeleno is sunshine, am fog (marine layer), and cool nights. So even though I've been to Chicago many times, it was still totally different and experiened culture shock once I planted my feet there as a resident.

Well again I hope to move to Chicago again for economic reasons. Real Estate is cheaper and once I see my condo here it would be hard to find anything comparable. I don't want to work two jobs, I'm too old for that. I was in Chicago a little over a year ago, and was impressed with the changes the city has gone through. Granted I'm still a little concern when I move there that I will yearn for LA and want to come back. The bad news is I probably won't be able to afford to again. So this is a concern, but I have a some confidence that I'm more prepared on what to expect of the city this time around. My family and friends are still trying to talk me out of it. Some of my relatives are from Chicago, and aren't all that crazy about the hometown. A good friend of my moms keeps asking, WHY would I want to move to such a depressing place? This is how they view Chicago, but I can see how they might have this opinion. You see they are from the west side in some of the most depressed areas of the city. Here they live in the suburbs with a beautiful home a swimming pool and nice warm weather.

Thank god I'm not seeing it this way, and I hope all works out well in Chicago for me. My heart will still be with L.A. as its home and I do love living here. I do know in my heart LA is a unique and great place to live in spite of its problems. Yet not to the point of the high cost anymore, at least not for me
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Mohammed Wong has good point. Los Angeles is not a single impression city the way NY, Chicago or SF is, with their monuments, statues, bridges and hi-rises---structures that identify them easily. Live in these cities for a few days or weeks and you can easily understand the vibes, rhythms, attitudes and energy. Los Angeles is too big, too diverse and too complex to simplify. What makes LA far more interesting is the fact the city's identity, culture and rhythms unfolds in layers that only people who have lived here for a few years can appreciate and admire. I love the fact that LA has a diverse culture and history, in a very diverse environment (the sea, desert, mountains, urban and suburban). Because of this complexity there is nothing "typical" about the Angeleno, the way a person living in New York becomes the "typical" New Yorker. We in LA love our personal freedom and space too much to be uniformly labeled as such!
 

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I-275westcoastfl said:
When they show street level shots of downtown LA i sometimes think it looks like NYC cause the downtown is very urban.
You ever notice hardly anyone is walking around on those streets though?
 

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yoyoniner said:
You ever notice hardly anyone is walking around on those streets though?

you also have the awesome toy district nearby and
the fashion district, and during the day there always lots of people walking around, especially on the weekend!

and there are lots of people in bum town if its still there, and their cardboard and tent city
 

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This debate will never end. And the people who slam Los Angeles really don't have a good argument. People need to understand that Los Angeles is not only a city but a 'culture.' Hell..all of SoCal has had a MASSIVE influence on the world. To the beaches, to the style of dress and speech, food, TV, music. I can go to Mumbai, India and see bits of LA in the way of life there.

LA is a city like no other. LA is a city people hate to love and love to hate.
 

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ChrisLA said:
Wow, its good to see an outsider say these things. I find outside these skyscraper forums LA certainly isn't viewed as negative. I'm like mohammed wong, LA, NYC, and Chicago are really the only cities in america I would want to live. At times I think I could use a slower pace city, with less traffic, crazyness. But the more I think about a smaller city, deep down its not me. I would be bored out of my mind. Even Chicago back in the early 90's was disappointing to me. I always had fun when I visit, and thought I would love to live there. When I finally moved there, I found myself dying to leave. Los Angeles for sure was looking much greener, and I didn't realize how much I love living here until I moved away. I like the four seasons for sure, and autumn was awesome in Chicago. Yet I hated the muggy summers, and the rain. I like rain, but to a Californian that is only suppose to happen in the winter. Summer to us is sunshine, am fog (marine layer), and cool nights. So even though I've been to Chicago many times, it was still totally different and culture shock one I planted my feet there as a resident.

Well again I hope to move to Chicago again for economic reasons. Real Estate is cheaper and once I see my condo here it would be hard to find anything comparable. I don't want to work two jobs, I'm too old for that. I was in Chicago a little over a year ago, and was impressed with the changes the city has gone through. Granted I'm still a little concern when I move there that I will yearn for LA and want to come back. The bad news is I probably won't be able to afford to again. So this is a concern, but I have a some confidence that I'm more prepared on what to expect of the city this time around. My family and friends are still trying to talk me out of it. Some of my relatives are from Chicago, and aren't all that crazy about the hometown. A good friend of my moms keeps asking, WHY would I want to move to such a depressing place? This is how they view Chicago, but I can see how they might have this opinion. You see they are from the west side in some of the most depressed areas of the city. Here they live in the suburbs with a beautiful home a swimming pool and nice warm weather.

Thank god I'm not seeing it this way, and I hope all works out well in Chicago for me. My heart will still be with L.A. as its home and I do love living here. I do know in my heart LA is a unique and great place to live in spite of its problems. Yet not to the point of the high cost anymore, at least not for me
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It sounds like you're only moving here because of finances. That sucks man. I mean I dont know you but I'd want you to come here because you really wanted to not because youre basically forced to. Correct me if Im wrong.
 

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Threehundred said:
This debate will never end. And the people who slam Los Angeles really don't have a good argument. People need to understand that Los Angeles is not only a city but a 'culture.' Hell..all of SoCal has had a MASSIVE influence on the world. To the beaches, to the style of dress and speech, food, TV, music. I can go to Mumbai, India and see bits of LA in the way of life there.

LA is a city like no other. LA is a city people hate to love and love to hate.


Good point. People who bash L.A. has no knowledge about L.A. don't have a good argument. I wouldn't worry too much about the people who bash L.A.; there just stupid and don't know shit. Theres actually been people here who said L.A. has contributed nothing to the world; saying that; its amazing how ignorant people can get here.
 

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^
In terms of cultural influence via the media and Hollywood, L.A. is probably top 3 most influential cities in the world. Up there with NYC, and London.

In terms of economic importance, in the top 10 in the world along with Chicago.
 

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i would place the LA economy higher than that. the Metros GDp would be the Worlds 16th largest economy if it was its own country and the metros GDP is somewhere near 800billion, the city of LA at ~420 billion.
 

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ChgoLvr83 said:
It sounds like you're only moving here because of finances. That sucks man. I mean I dont know you but I'd want you to come here because you really wanted to not because youre basically forced to. Correct me if Im wrong.
Thats a major part of the reason, but Chicago was my number one choice. I see it as offering the most opportunities (decent paying jobs), similar to LA as far as things to do, and culture. Mostly I worry about being so far away from close relatives. I have a new nephew (2 months old), and the parents are getting up in age. Plus I have lots of other neices & nephews, most are grown or teenagers. Yet we're close, and I'm their favorite uncle. Its not that I need to see them all the time since they many are grown. Its more so the fact that they will be far 2000 miles away. So please don't take it as I'm not looking forward to moving there. I think for most part anyone worry a bit about leaving friends & close relatives. I know from past experience its takes a while (at least a year) to adjust to anywhere you move. Anyway I have some distant relatives (moved from Houston) and two 1st cousins and their grown kids from California that live in Chicago metro. I know for sure we will hang out, and most of them love Chicago.


Oh btw I edited my previous post. After looking over it, I see there needed to be some corrections.
 

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ChrisLA said:
Thats a major part of the reason, but Chicago was my number one choice. I see it as offering the most opportunities (decent paying jobs), similar to LA as far as things to do, and culture. Mostly I worry about being so far away from close relatives. I have a new nephew (2 months old), and the parents are getting up in age. Plus I have lots of other neices & nephews, most are grown or teenagers. Yet we're close, and I'm their favorite uncle. Its not that I need to see them all the time since they many are grown. Its more so the fact that they will be far 2000 miles away. So please don't take it as I'm not looking forward to moving there. I think for most part anyone worry a bit about leaving friends & close relatives. I know from past experience its takes a while (at least a year) to adjust to anywhere you move. Anyway I have some distant relatives (moved from Houston) and two 1st cousins and their grown kids from California that live in Chicago metro. I know for sure we will hang out, and most of them love Chicago.


Oh btw I edited my previous post. After looking over it, I see there needed to be some corrections.
^Yeah, that's a lesson for us all. The greatest city in the world still doesn't come within a mile of being near loved ones. I am here in DC, which is really quite a remarkable (and somewhat underrated) city, but I can't enjoy it in the least--I'm learning to go back to the area where my family lives.

EDIT: I meant to say "yearning" in the above sentence :runaway:
 

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Wlk to 9th and Broadway and look towards the new financial district. You'll get that feeling that LA is very dense at some points. Walk on Figueroa at 8:30 in the morning and at 5:00 in the evening, lets see who's talking. I've been downtown at luch time and trust me, it even gives you a headache with all the noise, the dodging of people on the sidewalk, and the ugly smell of pee on the historic core. LA DOES feel like NY and CHG at times. Think of it as 42nd street in New York, and Michigan Avenue in Chicago.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
More About how LA is becoming like nY

THE STATE
Living Gets Loftier in Downtown L.A.
By Cara Mia DiMassa, Times Staff Writer






Pedro Galindo moved into the Higgins Building four years ago, part of the first wave of urban adventurers who set roots in the fledging loft district north of skid row.

Back then, the 24-year-old substitute teacher recalls, the converted 1910 beaux-arts office tower had a definite vibe.


"The coolest people were here. There were rooftop parties and barbecues," he said. "It was a very social building. You would have parties every weekend."

That began to change two years ago, when the Higgins converted from apartments to condos, with units now selling for up to $700,000.

The new crop of resident-owners — who include Galindo and his sister, Natalia, who bought the unit they were renting — hired a concierge to provide "enhanced security" for the building. The new owners brought in a valet to park their cars at a nearby lot. Galindo said the social scene took a hit, too, as the building seemed to become more insular.

"I think the last get-together we had was four or five months ago," he said.

What happened at the Higgins speaks to a growing gap among those who are rapidly changing the face of downtown Los Angeles.

The recent wave of downtown residents began about six years ago and consisted mostly of renters taking a chance on the first crop of converted lofts in the Old Bank district. They were lured by reasonable rents and the prospect of living in an urban environment.

But much of the residential development since has been condos, changing downtown's residential population. With prices rising, many new residents are making a bet that downtown will continue to gentrify, homelessness and crime will decline and more upscale retail shops will open. In other words, they see living downtown as an investment.

"As prices have increased and amenities have increased, there is no question you are seeing a demographic shift," said Tom Cody, a principal in the South Group, which is building three upscale residential projects in the South Park area of downtown, near Staples Center.

"The first generations of pioneers and early adopters were going on faith that certain things were going to come," he said. "The lifestyle is actually there now. Only now are you going to see people who are leaving decent neighborhoods and … choosing downtown."

Indeed, the days of the spartan industrial loft are over. Developers say downtown buyers are demanding high-end amenities, including rooftop pools, 24-hour doormen-security guards and elaborate gyms.

Urban planners say Los Angeles' demographic shift is similar to changes seen in urban neighborhoods in San Diego, Denver and Washington, D.C.

The first adopters in struggling downtowns are often artists and young professionals — frequently without families — who begin gentrifying an area. They are followed by a wave of more established — and often wealthier — people, including "empty nester" couples typically selling large houses and downsizing with lots of equity to invest in their new condos.

"It's a very classic pattern we are seeing around the country," said John McIlwain, a senior resident fellow at the Urban Land Institute.

Like many residents new to downtown Los Angeles, Frank Weber had been watching the transformation over the last few years.

With residential development booming across the city center, Weber decided it was time to buy. So he recently made a down payment on a studio unit in the trendy Elleven condo tower scheduled to open next year near Staples Center.

Weber, a 51-year-old Los Angeles Police detective, had been living in the suburbs of Riverside County and making a 2 1/2 -hour commute. But his children are grown, and his wife died a few years ago.

"It's appropriate now," he said of the move. "I have always thought downtown areas are nice. I am hoping this one will be just as nice as the others, like New York and San Francisco."

For Qathryn Brehm, the latest influx of residents is both a blessing and a burden.
Brehm, an artist, arrived downtown in 1979, paying $300 a month for a 3,000-square-foot apartment at the corner of 8th and Spring streets. "There were a lot of people moving from all parts," she said. "Downtown was very economical."

Brehm made a life for herself downtown, later moving into the area's burgeoning artists district east of Little Tokyo.

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The renaissance, said Brehm, who works in marketing and community relations for the Central City East Assn., which represents business interests in parts of downtown, "was bound to happen…. It's exciting that people are finally using the city to live and work and play."

Even those conflicted by the upscale shift are quick to admit the growing residential population — 24,000 and expected to double by 2015 — is giving those who live downtown a political voice they haven't had before.

Community groups have demanded beefed-up police patrols and successfully fought for a redesign of the new LAPD headquarters, to be built just south of City Hall, to include more open space.

Still, the changes, Brehm said, are squeezing out many of "the people who have been there a long time, who moved there because of the rent and the workspace."

"Everyone loves the amenities, of course," she added, "but it's mostly that when you are an artist, you need larger spaces to work in, at a reasonable rent. Now, the rents are going up and the spaces aren't that big."

That is largely because of the economics of creating lofts. Developers have found that buying historic buildings and rehabbing them as lofts is so costly that the only way to make money back is to quickly sell the units. And the costs of old buildings and land are rising as downtown becomes more popular.

The shift is becoming increasingly evident, said five-year loft resident Marie Condron, a founder of the popular Internet listserv newdowntown, where residents talk about local issues and offer tips on shopping and services.

She too sees a divide between the renters and the buyers. "The people who are buying are investing in a hot market," she said. "The renters are more here for the community and the neighborhood."

Dan Parker, 33, decided to buy a unit at 1100 Wilshire, a 37-story onetime office tower that is being converted into high-end condos, because he believes prices will continue to rise.

Parker, a software engineer, lives in Hollywood but is making the move east because of all the projects planned for downtown, especially L.A. Live, a $1.7-billion retail and entertainment sector that has broken ground near Staples Center.

He said he believes he's getting in on the ground floor of something big.

"I think property will be worth more in five to 10 years," Parker said.

Daniel Abas, 26, is also moving to 1100 Wilshire after living for several years in the Higgins Building. The Higgins Building attracted "people who can rough it," Abas said, and "1100 is going to attract a more refined audience who enjoys an urban lifestyle."

Abas, an entrepreneur, predicts that L.A. Live and other projects in the works will appeal to a new generation of residents who thus far have been hesitant.

"The third wave will be the people who come along with the services," he said. "All these new services — restaurants and dry cleaners — will ultimately provide them with an L.A. lifestyle that we have all become accustomed to, with all the perks."

Ownership has changed Galindo's perspective on downtown. He's been involved in the movement to push for a public park in the Civic Center area. And he's joined his building's condo board.

"We have become very invested in seeing downtown L.A. thrive," he said. "Before, I used to think L.A. is a dump. Now I am very optimistic."
 

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But the people moving downtown make about how much money a year? 75,000 or so, bacause if I ever live there with the way I'm going right now, I'll have to win the lottery LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
A GRAPH IN THE PAPER, BUT NOT ON LINE, SHOWED HOW MEDIAN COSTS OF A CONDO HAVE TRIPLED SINCE 2000 AND DOUBLED SINCE JAN 2004. tHE MEDIAN COST IS NOW ALMOST 600,000. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
 

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Silverlake, I think you need to visit midtown Manhattan, and the Lower East side to see how far behind L.A.'s downtown is in comparison. Chicago has the second largest downtown in the nation. Chicago's Loop (our central business district which was the traditional downtown), and surrounding areas (River North, West Loop, Eastside, and South Loop) is about 10 sq miles with 160,000 people, and is projected to double by 2020. Current median price for a two bed two bath condo, about 500,000.
 
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