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Electrification

1066607 Views 4963 Replies 255 Participants Last post by  Freel07
So the much needed electrification of routes out of Manchester will after all take place, despite the Spending Review, though there is some anger that the time for the work has been extended so that it won't be finished until 2016 at the earliest.

More details here:

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/transport/public_transport/s/1375312_trains_to_get_more_carriages_in_rail_boost
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2010/11/25/liverpool-manchester-railway-electrification-to-finish-by-2016-three-years-late-100252-27715777/
http://www.madeinpreston.co.uk/wp/2009/12/14/manchester-preston-blackpool-electrification/

There's also a generic SSC Rail Electrification thread here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1016189&highlight=electrification

But with both Crossrail and Thameslink now fully committed to, what do forummers think about the balance of where rail investment money is going?

Should the North West be counting its blessings to get any money at all?
:cheers:

Or is infrastructure investment still too heavily skewed to the South East?
:bash:

And what's happening with that proposed "Northern Hub" at Piccadilly?
:nuts:
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Eccles is just as bad. No displays or clock. It has some bus shelters, some lights and some planters done by the 'Friends' of the station. Oh and a tiny portakabin barely open half the day selling tickets, which I believe elevates it to a status higher than Patricroft.... will these stations get upgraded when the 'modern age' with its electrickery come along?

On the other hand, where my Dad lives darn sarf in a town not to disimilar in size to Eccles it has three platforms, proper canopies, a ticket office with 3 windows plus 2 ticket machines, waiting rooms and toilets on both platforms, all sorts of electronic displays, a newsagent and a taxi office! Oh and modern (well approx 15 years old, so modern by Northern standard) EMUs running 4 times an hour to London (3 fast, 1 slow stopping). Its busy service off peak, absolutley rammed in the rush hour. While on his last visit my dad loved Manchester, the :banana:, Salford Quay, he couldn't get over how SHIT the trains were....
Granted - the facilities in this part of the world take inadequate to a whole new level ... Todmorden station doesn’t even have a clock FFS - let alone a ticket machine, or electronic displays...
if you leave westward from Victoria, you could go round the newly built Ordsall curve and straight through to Guide Bridge?
Where would they stop for the driver to change ends?
Class 350/380 are version of Siemens Desiro so a fair bit newer on average than a 323
Class 350/380 are version of Siemens Desiro so a fair bit newer on average than a 323
317s are electric versions of the 150s we have now
Class 317s were built for BedPan electrification. Although their introduction was delayed due to a spat between ASLEF and BR over DOO.

Due to the 'sparks effect' (passenger growth) and reopening of Snow Hill Tunnel (Thameslink), NSE then procured the Class 319s, cascading the 317s onto Great Northern suburban routes.
Platforms 3 and 4 still exist at Eccles, behind the fence and somewhat overgrown. The freight spur currently runs between them. The current Manchester bound platform is/was an island platform.

While it would be nice to reinstate platform 3 so it can be used as a turn back like Stalybridge or allow for more stopping services out of the paths of faster trains, making the existing platforms more accessible, better shelters, PIDs and a proper tickets office are probably more realistic hopes.

Eccles used to have a proper station building to, albeit timber, which burnt down in 1979 never to be replaced.
Ummm make Eccles a Parkway? I'm not disputing what you've said Wingy, just somewhat perplexed as to how they plan to do that. Parkways are commuter stations with large car parks, Eccles few dozen spaces are nearly always full already... with no space to expand.

:facepalm:
LOL there would be more space taken by the up an down ramps than spaces ;)

I 'spose they could build a platform/raft over the line itself, putting the line in a retrospective cut and cover tunnel.
ScouseinManc said:
IHeart - they could build a multi-storey, where the current car park is now, to make Eccles a 'parkway'.
I saw a train on it about 18 months ago, going through Eccles station. But I've moved house so don't use Eccles anymore so not been there to see one since
Why doesn't Northern operate DOO? is it a union thing? Is it to compensate for the lack of staff at their desolate stations?
Thanks Altfish, Tony.

I Just wondered really, having seen it the other way round I wondered why. I don't think the stations need the barriers but a place to buy tickets and CCTV should be on every station anyway!
I thought the idea was you could buy them from a policeman local private security operative ;)
Bumpety bump and back off topic, but I was just reading that a lot of Hong Kongs trams (or "ding dings" as they're known locally) were built at the Dick Kerr works too. Thought one or two of you might be interested ;)
Prior to the formation of British Aerospace there were two English Electric factories either side of Strand Road - the eastern side, the original Dick Kerr works, closest to St Werburghs manufactured air frame components for aircraft such as the Lightning, was taken over by British Aerospace whilst the eastern side that had built up a healthy business in Southern region emu motors and control systems became part of GEC. The BAe factory subsequently was shut down and then demolished when manufacturing was relocated to Salmesbury and a light industrial and office estate was built in its place. IIRC the only BAe facility still on site is their award winning apprentice training facility, home to their Young Engineers club (every town should have one). The view disguises just how much space there was next to Strand Road. GEC subsequently merged their rail interests with Alsthom before Arnold Weinstock's empire imploded as a result of an unwise diversification into telecommunications by his successors.
Yeah but the line is completely closed on the new tram lines and they can just crack on. It's much harder and slower if you have to work alongside an operational railway at night ;)

Good photos Trinityboy.
More of those gantries, taken from Weaste Road/Lane bridge over the M602

just console yourself with the knowledge that most of the time those passengers down south, on their shiney new trains will be paying almost twice as much for their tickets (for a comparable journey) and are less likely to get a seat :)

A 319 might only be 4 years new but is light-years ahead of a Pacer...
So, by the time electrification is completed in 2016 and the 319's are transferred up, we'll be getting 28 year old trains to replace 32 year old pacers ,whilst the south east gets the new shiny ones!! Tis good of them!
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While its not aspirational (never said it was), I'd much rather have an electric train based on the Mk3 body, no matter how questionable the velour upholstery is, than any smelly rattling Leyland national bus stuck on a wagon frame with bus seats and a just-about-to-expire more-fumes-than-power diesel slung underneath. And I weirdly appreciate the retro grunginess of a pacer :lol:

A large proportion of the SE are using similar trains. Greater Anglia use 321s and 317s which are a similar vintage (and their ticket prices are almost double for comparable journeys!) and SWT use other variants from the early 80's Mk3 family across their network.

The simple fact they're electric will make the ride much more pleasant as most of the unwelcome smell, noise and vibration is from the diesel engine than the rest of the train
So you think it's logical that our commuters get brand new trains while paying effectively half price for tickets compared to those lines that are getting new trains? Train ticket prices are not that expensive in the NW, compared to prices in the SE and on other forms of public transport in the NW. Getting the train is generally cheaper and quicker than both Metrolink and the bus on comparable journeys. And you massively overlook one of the major benefits of HS2, freeing up capacity for local/regional services on the tracks currently used by Virgin's Pendolinos to get to London. These fast trains take up a rather large slot of track time on the WCML across the whole length of the UK, freeing up these paths benefits local rail. I believe I'll be using HS2 and I'm not rich :lol:
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