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1066827 Views 4963 Replies 255 Participants Last post by  Freel07
So the much needed electrification of routes out of Manchester will after all take place, despite the Spending Review, though there is some anger that the time for the work has been extended so that it won't be finished until 2016 at the earliest.

More details here:

There's also a generic SSC Rail Electrification thread here:

But with both Crossrail and Thameslink now fully committed to, what do forummers think about the balance of where rail investment money is going?

Should the North West be counting its blessings to get any money at all?

Or is infrastructure investment still too heavily skewed to the South East?

And what's happening with that proposed "Northern Hub" at Piccadilly?
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The rump of the Woodhead route electrified between Piccadilly and Hadfield/Glossop is missing off that map - as for Ashton, you can still see old Overhead Gantries near Ikea and also in Dukinfield - a last legacy of the 1500VDC system...
agreed SOMtastic - went into Manchester from Romiley (and return) on saturday - both journeys were an absolute nightmare on a crappy old two coach Pacer bus-train - totally rammed plus standing - no chance to pay in either direction either due to this ...
does anyone else find this totally disgusting? :bash:
Suburban services will be provided by ex-Thameslinkold secondhand stock (319's) displaced from London after the new Thameslink project is being introduced.
This is what killed rolling stock manufacture in this country.
IIRC, it is over 800+ days since DfT placed a *confirmed* order for new rolling stock. That is as bad as at the start of privatisation!
Surely would it not be the other way round. Bolton being the usual more direct route to the north and the eccles route being the diversion?
Hmmm - rough distances from Piccadilly to Euxton are 30 miles via Eccles/Wigan/WCML and 25 miles via Bolton - so even if they both managed 60mph then the difference is only 5 minutes - I assume on the Eccles/Wigan/WCML the Pendos will average somewhat better than that
No, Eccles routes faster with less stops whereas Bolton route theres many suburban stations and all the stopper services to get stuck behind.
So TPE agree with my assessment of the relative speed of the two routes then. . .
Does the borough not form part of the whole town? if so those figures are completely wrong - and I suspect it was these that made Stockport look like crime-central a few years back because they used these smaller figures versus the crime stats for the whole borough (instead of the borough population figure which is approximately 100% than that one)
Not sure that's entirely correct, I don't know if you meant the town proper ot the borough, but Bolton's the 14th largest British town, after places like Reading, Bournemouth, Milton Keynes and Luton.
Sadly for Bolton it isn't currently on a mainline high volume route - once Manchester to Preston is Electrified via Bolton then it starts to have to the attraction (for Scotland bound traffic) that Stockport does for London bound traffic - a place (outside the centre of twon) to pick up an intercity service for nearby Manchester satellite towns - so I see quite a bit of London bound custom at Stockport from Altrincham and Tameside - Bolton would pick up Stretford/Bury for fast Scotland bound trains - and if there is ever through London bound WCML electrified traffic from the north that came via Manchester it could benefit there too
there is a separate thread already called Castlefield Curve I think
I don't think I really want to see a string of OHLE through the Hope Valley...
Urgggghhh - just google imaged for Class 380 - worst looking implementation of a through corridor facility at the front of an EMU/DMU i've ever seen!!!!
The 380s currently run in Scotland after a protracted introduction to service. Ive not had a ride on any yet but they look mean as hell!
The Man-Liverpool-Preston-Blackpool Scheme is already electrifying to Victoria. Leeds line comes in at Stalybridge so for flexibility they either electrify to Guide Bridge (25 years after removing it) and/or to Victoria via Ashton
(OHL) Electrified at one voltage or another longer than any other segment on the map, seeing its the withered arm of the Woodhead Electric Railway (1953'ish onwards)

Broadbottom Viaduct - Electrified on the way to Dinting, Hadfield and Glossop

End of the old OHLE Supports in Dukinfield (between Guide Bridge and Staleybridge) exactly 1 mile from junction where Ashton Line comes

This last one leads to me to this - the first set of OHLE Supports in the Ashton West Metrolink Station area - again from 1950's - the Sainsburys is sat on old triangular junction which had a set of sidings in it - the sweep of the fence directly East of the superstore segregating it from Ikea Carpark marking the line of the Northeasterly Junction
Hadfield/Glossop line shouldnt be coloured.
errm what about the chunk from Bristol to Birmingham...?
There is a direct (if long winded) route along this stretch that links Stockport to Victoria

Could we not use the Reddish South & Denton line as another route into Stockport and beyond? For instance, express trains and the like could still use the Stockport-Piccadilly main stretch, but it would be so damaging to reroute some of the Cheadle Hulme/Bramhall/Hazel Grove local trains through Denton and go that way?

It would open up lines for more services down in South East Manchester and a tram-train to Chester/Knutsford..

Following the line up through Reddish South and Denton the line splits in Audenshaw - the one train a week goes right and ends up via Guide Bridge at Stalybridge - but if you took the right branch this goes up to the old Ashton Moss Yard / Triangle (now Sainsburys/Ikea) and takes a sharp left turn to join the Miles Platting to Ashton line heading inbound.

That piece (from Audenshaw to Ashton Moss) is all in place and connected but is currently a freight line and is not marked on ANY rail network diagrams I can see. Curiously, the chunk north of the Piccadilly/Guide Bridge line still has the old 1500VDC Gantries extant - a relic of a previous electrification project...
Surely not running at the moment? The infastructure isn't there to link the Denton line with the Glossop-Piccadilly line. I assume you mean that it would be possible?
there are general guideance values though aren't there - the ECML was electrified with an average 80m gap between gantries (and they pay for that with unreliability) whereas the WCML was electrified with an average 60m between gantries - the old Woodhead 1500VDC system was actually done at 40m
But the 'mainline' between the two largest cities in the north of england (Manchester and Sheffield) remains stubbornly dieselised (suppose its just like the main road route being stubbornly single carriageway...)
Obvious when you think about it... thanks for that bit of info :)
They are TTCs (twin track cantilevers) and they've been used here to avoid obscuring the signal you can see in the distance.
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