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Qual o teu partido de eleição?

  • MPLA

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • União Nacional para a Independência Total de Angola (UNITA)

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • Partido da Renovação Social (PRS)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Frente Nacional de Libertação de Angola (FNLA)

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • Convergência Ampla de Salvação de Angola – Coligação Eleitoral (CASA-CE)

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • Partido Republicando de Angola (PREA)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Partido Socialista de Angola (PSA)

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • Coligação Nova Democracia-União Eleitoral

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Conselho Político da Oposição (CPO)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Outro. Qual?

    Votes: 3 18.8%

Eleições Gerais de 2012

11063 Views 167 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  skytrax
As eleições gerais em Angola estão apontadas para 31 de agosto, anunciou o presidente José Eduardo dos Santos.

Estas serão apenas as terceiras eleições gerais em Angola nos 37 anos que passaram desde a independência, em 1975. As primeiras, em 1992, redundaram de novo em guerra civil. Depois, em Setembro de 2008, José Eduardo dos Santos foi eleito por mais de 80 por cento dos votos.

As próximas eleições vão determinar os 220 lugares na Assembleia Nacional e designar, por via indireta, o próximo chefe de Estado, de acordo com o que foi definido pela nova Constituição angolana. O presidente e o vice-presidente serão os cabeças de lista do partido ou coligação mais votados.

Nesta altura estão identificados em Angola 9 milhões e 790 mil eleitores.
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1 - 20 of 168 Posts
Elections = bloodshed = potential war...Africa is full of that f****** b***shit & endless misery! Kenya, Côte d´ivoire, the two Congos, Senegal, Liberia, Mali, CAR, Niger, Togo, Guinea etc. (Almost all of West and Central Africa is/ has been sucked into a sea of blood, chaos and misery) I am so sick and tired of it...once a country rasises its head, it gets bogged down again...Thank God, Morocco is a monarchy (I wish more countries would have been constitutional monarchies in Africa..which gives some much needed political -long-term - stability), otherwise it would resemble the chaos that has taken hold of North Africa.

I really SINCERELY do hope that these elections will not lead Angola back to full blown civil war....and all the efforts taken will not have been in vain again....and REASON will prevail! That´s my only wish concerning that impending election!
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China says democracy hurts Kenya


The election-related violence that has killed hundreds in Kenya is proof that Western-style democracy is a bad fit for Africa, said China, which has been under fire for its friendly relations with authoritarian leaders on the continent.

Pre-colonial Africa had plenty of consultative decision-making frameworks, but those were ignored when former European rulers “tyrannically” imposed Western democratic systems upon independence
, the People’s Daily newspaper said in a commentary Monday.

“Western-style democratic theory simply isn’t suited to African conditions, but rather carries with it the root of disaster,” said the paper, the official mouthpiece of China’s ruling Communist Party.

Human rights groups and some overseas politicians have accused Beijing of helping prop up despotic regimes in Zimbabwe, Sudan and other African states.

China says it maintains a strict policy of not interfering in other countries’ internal affairs and claims Chinese investment is helping improve human rights by bringing economic development and alleviating poverty.

In Kenya, Beijing has sizable infrastructure projects, including mining and road-building.

Chinese President Hu Jintao also signed an oil exploration contract with Kenya during a visit to the country in 2006, part of a series of deals aimed at keeping Africa’s natural resources flowing to China’s resource-hungry economy.

In its commentary, the People’s Daily also said that colonialism was to blame for ongoing tribal and ethnic strife because European rulers turned native societies against each other to facilitate their rule.

“Colonialism is the chief culprit, the fuse that sparks ethnic conflict,” the paper said.

Fighting in Kenya since the disputed Dec. 27 presidential election has killed 575 people, according to the Kenya Red Cross Society.

President Mwai Kibaki was re-elected by a narrow margin in a vote count that international observers say was deeply flawed, and much of the violence since has pitted other tribes against Kibaki’s Kikuyu people.

The turmoil has also shaken Kenya’s image as a stable, tourist-friendly democracy in a region that includes war-ravaged Somalia and Sudan.

http://chinaelectionsblog.net/?p=13581




The trouble with democracy in Africa


Tuesday, 26 October 2010 23:12 By Andrew Mwenda
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Last Saturday, October 16, I was a guest on Capital Radio’s Capital Gang programme and our debate settled down to the subject of democracy in Africa – specifically on Uganda and Rwanda. Like most debate on anything in Africa, the discussion did not use the facts of a case i.e. the actual dynamics driving a country. Rather, it relied on a set of assumptions drawn from the experience of others which were super-imposed on our reality.

Debate on governance in Africa is frustrating because we focus on the procedures of democracy instead of its substance. For example, Freedom House has a check-list of indicators for democracy: Press freedom, multiple political parties, regular elections etc. Although these are important aspects of democracy, their mere presence does not mean that a country is democratic. Many African countries go through all the motions of democracy yet these rituals serve little or no democratic function.

If the mere practice of these rituals means a country is democratic, then it is a democracy like one that existed in the US in 1900 – where only propertied white males participated. The rest of the people – poor white men, all women, blacks and Native Americans were not part of this democratic experiment. The African story is more nuanced.

On the face of it Ghana, Mali, Kenya, Senegal and Mozambique have universal adult suffrage; all the citizens are free to use the mass media and political parties to participate in the political process. Yet most Africans are ordinary uneducated peasants living in rural areas. They are not part of civil society; they belong to “traditional� society.

The “masses� are not excluded from the political process as women and ethnic minorities were in the US. Rather, they are integrated into it; not as rights-bearing citizens but as clients of powerful individuals; and this is how the majority of Africans are actually disenfranchised. The “capture� of the masses by powerful elites is done largely but not entirely through ethnic politics. Ethnicity is used to blur the situational differences between elites and their poor co-ethnics; and thus allows the latter to use the former to bargain for positions of power and privilege.

The most illuminating example of this is a conversation I had with Rwanda´s former chief of security, Patrick Karegyeya. Together with three other colleagues, they issued a document in which they accused Paul Kagame of “marginalising the Hutu.â€� I sent Karegyeya an SMS asking what this meant. He answered: “Can you tell me of any single Hutu since 1994 who had ever had any say in any decision making (political or otherwise) in Rwanda?â€� Meaning if there were a few Hutu elites with power and influence around Kagame that would mean that the Hutu in Rwanda are not marginalised.

Now Rwanda has the highest primary school enrolment in Africa – at 97 percent; the highest level of medical insurance coverage of all its citizens at 92 percent, better than the world´s biggest economy, the United States. The World Bank has just nominated Rwanda for an award as the most successful country in combating child and infant mortality. Malaria morbidity and mortality have reduced by over 80 percent and the HIV/AIDS prevalence is less than 3 percent, down from 11 percent in 2000. Maternal mortality, average life expectancy and doctor-to-patient ratio are all growing impressively.

These achievements have only been possible because Rwanda has decentralised power and given ordinary citizens voice in the management of their affairs. At the lowest level of the village Rwandans draw up checklists of the things they want done in their communities. These inform government policies. District leaders enter a contract with the president on achieving the goals set by people themselves. A performance assessment is done every year evaluating promises against realised goals. The beneficiaries of these programmes are largely ordinary Hutu; integrated into power from the lowest level.

Yet many African elites would share Karegyeya’s sentiment. But look: The second most influential man in Uganda after President Yoweri Museveni is Amama Mbabazi from Kanungu district. Many people would conclude that the people of Kanungu are in power. Yet Kanungu has the highest levels of child malnutrition in Uganda after IDP camps in war-torn Acholi. I know that identity has strong emotive appeal – people see in their powerful co-ethnics a promise of their own future. But ethnicity is not everything. Mbabazi and a few elites are not “the people of Kanungu.�

Yet Mbabazi is not an oddity; his is the story of Africa’s democratic experiment. If President Mwai Kibaki of Kenya wants to win the vote of the Akamba, he does not do so by addressing their existential needs – over land, jobs and taxes. He makes a deal with a powerful Akamba politician, Kalonzo Musyoka and a few elites. These mobilise their co-ethnics for Kibaki. His opponent, Raila Odinga, does the same to win the Kalenjin: rather than address their existential needs, he does a deal with William Ruto.

If Museveni wants to win the Bairu vote in Ankole, he does little to address their concerns over healthcare, education and transportation. He appoints Amanya Mushega, Kahinda Otafiire and Ephraim Kamuntu into his cabinet. These will rally Bairu masses to vote for him. His opponent, Kizza Besigye, in trying to win over the Baganda does not address their concerns over land and agricultural policy. He strikes a deal with two former Katikkiros – Ssemwogerere Mulwanyamuli and Daniel Muliika.

We all know this! What is frustrating is the apparent failure of African intellectuals to use it as part of their analysis of how democracy is evolving in our countries. This deal making among elites has powerful implications on the evolution of functional states. Because if a politician can win votes by appeasing a few elites, that is certainly a more cost-effective strategy than building strong institutions and implementing sound policies to serve the public good.

Institutions take a lot of time and money to build and extraordinary discipline to make them functional. So through a genuinely democratic process, politicians find it profitable to offer private goods (jobs, cars, contracts, etc for elites and envelops stuffed with cash, alcohol, sugar and salt for the poor) than to deliver public goods and services. Across Africa, the more democracy has spread the less effective the state has become as an instrument for serving the public good and the higher corruption has grown.

African elites operate in a specific social context – of a majority of voters being poor peasants. Peasant agriculture depends predominantly on nature.
The vagaries of weather have across time and space fostered the evolution of particular social adaptations which James Scott in The Moral Economy of the Peasant called “the subsistence ethic.� Patterns of reciprocity, patron-client ties, work sharing and extended family systems are social institutions erected to provide insurance against the risk of starvation. These constitute the moral universe of peasants and inform how their choices are made.

For example, a hungry or sick peasant goes to a better-off neighbour or relative for assistance and expects his needs to be attended to. Likewise, the better-off relative or neighbour responds positively because that is what is expected of him/her by the society’s value system. To act otherwise is seen as wrong and attracts social sanction in form of negative gossip and a bad reputation. However, such acts are investments too; in helping the needy, the rich neighbour cultivates a reputation of being a “good man.�

This value system at the level of the village creates a specific form of politics at the national level; politicians who want to cultivate a political following must build a reputation of being generous.
For those in political office, this reputation is built through the distribution of favours using public funds, often called corruption. So Minister X will use public funds to pay fees, meet funeral expenses and other private needs of his constituents. In return, the masses reward him/her with loyalty and support.

Poor people attach great importance to expressions of kindness and generosity. To them a good leader is a man who gives gifts directly in form of money and goods – like African chiefs of old. When Museveni openly gives envelops stuffed with cash to ordinary people, as has become his norm these days, he is addressing a vital existential need to gain political advantage. He does it publicly in order to show others that when they get access to him, their personal needs will be addressed.

Therefore, what goes for democratic competition in most of Africa is a contest among elites to control power; not to change how it is organised, exercised and reproduced. Instead of representing the wishes of the population at large, many œdemocratic governments in Africa actually represent the interests of a few elites. This alternation of elites in power, as we see in Ghana, is what is called democracy in Africa.

This nuance finds little expression in academic and intellectual circles in Africa and the West because the debate on democracy ignores our context. Instead, we are always seeking the right analogies from the experience of societies with an entirely different social structure. This explains the fanatical obsession with procedures and rituals over the substance of democracy.

It is here that I disagree with a large section of the democratic crowd in Africa when it comes to Paul Kagame in Rwanda. Kagame represents the first and most important attempt to reform politics in Africa from being elite-centred to being people-centred. Rather than seek to win the support of a few elites, he is building a state that can deliver services to the anonymous citizen without much recourse to political connections and personal patronage.

Thus, be it in education, health, agricultural extension services – a whole broad spectrum of public policy issues – ordinary Rwandans do not need political Godfathers to access education scholarships, medical evacuation, fertilizers etc. This is not to say that Rwanda has arrived. Rather, it is that Kagame is building the actual foundation of a modern democratic state by turning the people of Rwanda from being clients into citizens. Clients get favours from patrons; citizens get rights from the state.

It is possible that Kagame does this because of a strong authoritarian streak which has made him refuse to yield œdemocratic space to elites contesting for power in Kigali. Yet it is precisely by resisting pressures from powerful political elites that Kagame has been forced to empower the masses. Rather than use a few ethnic intermediaries to win their co-ethnics, Kagame goes directly to the voter through service delivery. This strategy has forced him to build an effective and functional state.

Kagame is disbanding elite privileges – like stealing public funds and yet remain in office because you are indispensable, untouchable; if removed, you can turn entire communities against the president. We know that many presidents in Africa fail to crack down on the corrupt because their co-ethnics will turn against the ruling party. Kagame has said “NO� to this blackmail. The losers in his reforms are few; but the most influential, vocal and articulate sections of society. They speak on BBC and VOA. They have access to Human Rights Watch and Reporters’ Without Borders to complain.

Meanwhile, the beneficiaries of Kagame´s reforms are largely the poor majority who are illiterate peasants. They have little or no voice in local and international media or among human rights groups. These voiceless beneficiaries of progressive change should count on my untiring support; for I believe that the primary duty of government is to serve the most ordinary person – that anonymous citizen who has no political Godfathers.

http://www.independent.co.ug/the-last-word/the-last-word/3580-the-trouble-with-democracy-in-africa



Elections, Political Instability, and Mass Killing: Ballots to bullets, voting to violence?

Benjamin E. Goldsmith ([email protected])
University of Sydney

Dimitri Semenovich ([email protected])
Arcot Sowmya ([email protected])
University of New South Wales
http://sydney.edu.au/arts/government_international_relations/downloads/documents/5_1_Goldsmith.pdf
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Elections = bloodshed = potential war...Africa is full of that f****** b***shit & endless misery! Kenya, Côte d´ivoire, the two Congos, Senegal, Liberia, Mali, CAR, Niger, Togo, Guinea etc. (Almost all of West and Central Africa is/ has been sucked into a sea of blood, chaos and misery) I am so sick and tired of it...once a country rasises its head, it gets bogged down again...Thank God, Morocco is a monarchy (I wish more countries would have been constitutional monarchies in Africa..which gives some much needed political -long-term - stability), otherwise it would resemble the chaos that has taken hold of North Africa.

I really SINCERELY do hope that these elections will not lead Angola back to full blown civil war....and all the efforts taken will not have been in vain again....and REASON will prevail! That´s my only wish concerning that impending election!
You can't be f'king serious?! And the fact that you are a european shocks me even more... :eek:hno::eek:hno:
So in you idea Dos Santos should be the King of Angola (just like he already acts) and only his family and friend benefit from the vast majority of our resource?! But anyway, did you know that there are also elections in a monarchy? In a monarchy the king is just a symbolical figure, cause he doesn't rule anything..

If the rest of the world can express it will by election, why can't Africa? Aren't you the one who want Africa the be closer day by day to the developed word??
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Pelos vistos não sou o único que irá votar na CASA-CE! :banana::banana:
Elections = bloodshed = potential war...Africa is full of that f****** b***shit & endless misery! Kenya, Côte d´ivoire, the two Congos, Senegal, Liberia, Mali, CAR, Niger, Togo, Guinea etc. (Almost all of West and Central Africa is/ has been sucked into a sea of blood, chaos and misery) I am so sick and tired of it...once a country rasises its head, it gets bogged down again...Thank God, Morocco is a monarchy (I wish more countries would have been constitutional monarchies in Africa..which gives some much needed political -long-term - stability), otherwise it would resemble the chaos that has taken hold of North Africa.

I really SINCERELY do hope that these elections will not lead Angola back to full blown civil war....and all the efforts taken will not have been in vain again....and REASON will prevail! That´s my only wish concerning that impending election!
^^ I hope that you speak for you, because I personally, I know that the Angolan people have thirst of change. Look often on YouTube and its mass demonstrations in the Angolan big cities. They want the democracy in THEIR country,the true democracy.
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You can't be f'king serious?! And the fact that you are a european shocks me even more... :eek:hno::eek:hno:
So in you idea Dos Santos should be the King of Angola (just like he already acts) and only his family and friend benefit from the vast majority of our resource?! But anyway, did you know that there are also elections in a monarchy? In a monarchy the king is just a symbolical figure, cause he doesn't rule anything..

If the rest of the world can express it will by election, why can't Africa? Aren't you the one who want Africa the be closer day by day to the developed word??
+1.000.000 :)
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Apresentação do partido CASA-CE :cheers2:


Parte II
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Angolan People will be winner of the general election in Angola.
Pelos vistos não sou o único que irá votar na CASA-CE! :banana::banana:
Nao nao es o unico!!!!!! é uma péna que os angolanos que vivem no extérior tambem nao podem votar porque o meu voto ja ira para a casa tambem!! O zédu perdeu a vontade de instaurar uma verdadeira democracia em angola!! ao meu ver ele nao devia se candidatar e deixar o lugar para o nando ou no feijo ou uma outra pessoa no mpla mas nada disso o senhor quer o titulo de rei de angola!! A CASA-CE parece ser um partido sério, com angolanos que estao farto da pseudo "democracia do mpla" que està a perder toda a crédibilidade em continuar com a mesma pessoa hà mais de 32 anos. Eu ja fui do M mas com tantas promessas no ar (1 000 000 de casas, tolerencia zero contra a corrupçao...) agora ja nao tenho esperança neste partido e sei que com o sr Abel angola vai realmente mudar muitas pessoas na minha familia o conhecem e ele tem uma visao que concordo com ele para o futuro de angola! E preciso dar lugar para a juventude!!! e sky deixa o matt é um louco e nao conhece a verdadeira angola, ele conhece angola do forum mas nunca pos os pes no cazenga, no sambizanga...
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Por falar em Cazenga, ontem tive a ver um video de uma entrevista dada por um puto do Cazenga que foi torturada por ter aderido a manifestação. Fique de lágrimas nos olhos com tanta revolta.
Agora percebo porque muitos Angolanos da Diáspora não querem voltar em Angola. Porque para que já está habituado a viver num verdadeiro sistema democrático como nós estamos, é deveras complicado.

Infelizmente o meu cartão de eleitor está desactualizado, mas vou tentar votar assim na mesma. Aliás primeira coisas que irei fazer mal chegar em Angola dentro de um mês, irá ser o registo nesse novo partido.
Mas honestamente não acredito que o MPLA irá perder estás eleições. Em todo caso se virem a sua "maior asfixiante de 88%" reduzida apenas para 50-60%, creio que já será uma grande vitória.

CASA-CE!!! :pepper::banana::pepper:
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^^ I hope that you speak for you, because I personally, I know that the Angolan people have thirst of change. Look often on YouTube and its mass demonstrations in the Angolan big cities. They want the democracy in THEIR country,the true democracy.


You mean like in your Gabon?:lol:

There is no true democracy in Africa (whatever that means?), not even in the West although people are fooled into believing that and that´s part of the trick!..but you are unable to understand even that...I just say a perfect victim of mind manipulation...I guess you think that I am believing in conspiracy theories now, right?:lol:

Keep believing in/dreaming of your true democracy.

Oh, I forgot the West helped to restore true democracy in Libya now. So we all should be grateful for their kind & generous help!

Where are they in Syria?
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You can't be f'king serious?! And the fact that you are a european shocks me even more... :eek:hno::eek:hno:
So in you idea Dos Santos should be the King of Angola (just like he already acts) and only his family and friend benefit from the vast majority of our resource?! But anyway, did you know that there are also elections in a monarchy? In a monarchy the king is just a symbolical figure, cause he doesn't rule anything..

If the rest of the world can express it will by election, why can't Africa? Aren't you the one who want Africa the be closer day by day to the developed word??
You haven´t understood how Africa (and the world) works...but I don´t blame you for that, it is the system that you are exposed to!

And just because I live in Europe (btw, I am not European, whatever that means?) makes me love democracy blindly. The logic, I cannot fully understand.

Btw, where did I say that Dos Santos should be the king of Angola, please!? Read the articles posted, especially that from Andrew Mwenda which perfectly highlights the situation:)
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You mean like in your Gabon?:lol:

There is no true democracy in Africa (whatever that mean?), not even in the West!..but you are unable to understand even that...I just say a perfect victim of mind manipulation...I guess you think that I am believing in conspiracy theories now, right?:lol:

Keep believing/dreaming in your true democracy.

Oh, I forgot the West helped to restore true democracy in Libya now. So we all should be grateful for their kind & generous help!

Where are they in Syria?
SA, Botswana, Senegal, Ghana, Zambia, Mauritius are true democracy. :)
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You mean like in your Gabon?:lol:

There is no true democracy in Africa (whatever that mean?), not even in the West!..but you are unable to understand even that...I just say a perfect victim of mind manipulation...I guess you think that I am believing in conspiracy theories now, right?:lol:

Keep believing/dreaming in your true democracy.

Oh, I forgot the West helped to restore true democracy in Libya now. So we all should be grateful for their kind & generous help!

Where are they in Syria?
So Ghana, Senegal and south africa is the same as zimbabwé, rwanda, Mali and guiné? you are an intelligent person but you are really crazy dude!!!!! Democracy is possible in africa, it's impossible only if you don't believe like you!!! You talk about monarchy like morocco, please stop smoking a lot of weed it's to bad for you!!! Dos santos has nothing to be a king!! his familly wasn't born in angola and his great father wasn't a king!!! If the child of ekuiki or Mandume want's this tittle it's ok but not dos santos!!!!
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Por falar em Cazenga, ontem tive a ver um video de uma entrevista dada por um puto do Cazenga que foi torturada por ter aderido a manifestação. Fique de lágrimas nos olhos com tanta revolta.
Agora percebo porque muitos Angolanos da Diáspora não querem voltar em Angola. Porque para que já está habituado a viver num verdadeiro sistema democrático como nós estamos, é deveras complicado.

Infelizmente o meu cartão de eleitor está desactualizado, mas vou tentar votar assim na mesma. Aliás primeira coisas que irei fazer mal chegar em Angola dentro de um mês, irá ser o registo nesse novo partido.
Mas honestamente não acredito que o MPLA irá perder estás eleições. Em todo caso se virem a sua "maior asfixiante de 88%" reduzida apenas para 50-60%, creio que já será uma grande vitória.

CASA-CE!!! :pepper::banana::pepper:
Tambem penso como tu, ainda é muito cédo para acabar com o MPLA mas pelo menos angola tem que ter uma oposiçao forte para que o MPLA seja menos arrogante!! e daqui a proxima eleiçoes a casa volta a ser a primeira força politica em angola!! O mpla nao quer mudar de atitude basta so ver a TPA ou ler o JA para ver que as praticas do partido unico ainda nao acabaram!! Em angola nao se pode manifestar sem que depois alguem vem te partir a cabeça ou te parte o teu carro, angola està mesmo mal!! e notei tambem que quando ha manifestaçoes os unicos que falam de voltar para guerra é so o mpla... Isso nao da vontade de voltar para la e portanto eu gostaria ajudar o meu pais a crescer...
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Nao nao es o unico!!!!!! é uma péna que os angolanos que vivem no extérior tambem nao podem votar porque o meu voto ja ira para a casa tambem!! O zédu perdeu a vontade de instaurar uma verdadeira democracia em angola!! ao meu ver ele nao devia se candidatar e deixar o lugar para o nando ou no feijo ou uma outra pessoa no mpla mas nada disso o senhor quer o titulo de rei de angola!! A CASA-CE parece ser um partido sério, com angolanos que estao farto da pseudo "democracia do mpla" que està a perder toda a crédibilidade em continuar com a mesma pessoa hà mais de 32 anos. Eu ja fui do M mas com tantas promessas no ar (1 000 000 de casas, tolerencia zero contra a corrupçao...) agora ja nao tenho esperança neste partido e sei que com o sr Abel angola vai realmente mudar muitas pessoas na minha familia o conhecem e ele tem uma visao que concordo com ele para o futuro de angola! E preciso dar lugar para a juventude!!! e sky deixa o matt é um louco e nao conhece a verdadeira angola, ele conhece angola do forum mas nunca pos os pes no cazenga, no sambizanga...
:eek:hno:

Lilsky, would you tell that right to me, please?!!! Is that your saying "thank you" for the tremendous effort that I have taken throughout the years to update this sub-forum by searching meticulously infos, projects, news on such a broad variety of topics......just because I have an opinion that deviates from yours. (I can see how democratic you truly are).

And I am aware of the areas that you mentioned...even if I only know the country "by internet" as you claim - I wonder where you know that from, do you know me in person ? - you should know that just by searching the web as extensively as I do, one is fully aware of the existence of these areas...if you want me to portray them in a sub-forum dedicated to skyscrapers, urban renewal and development..I will do so...it will surely help to perfectly reinforce the stereotypes that people have on Africa when they visit this sub-forum - and that the media revels in conveying to the public -; nothing easier than that.



Skytrax, is that what people think of me here (..."deixa o matt é um louco)"? You - as a moderator - should tell that into my face as well and I will draw my conclusions. Do have the courage to tell me that if that is the case, please! I am truly not obliged to invest my time and energy in here. Better I know that now than later. Thank you.
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SA, Botswana, Senegal, Ghana, Zambia, Mauritius are true democracy. :)


You want to sell these countries as true democracies to me?

First of all, how do you define democracy?





In Botswana one and the same party has been running the country unswervingly since independence from Britain...and the current president is the son of the founding father of Botswana.

Moreover, despite being a small country which is excessively rich in diamonds and minerals, a great deal of its inhabitants still live in poverty. (OFFICIALLY , slightly more than 30%! despite a population of less than 2 million!!))

On a sidenote, friends and relatives of mine who have been to Bots. told me that its capital is super boring...with practically no entertainment facilities at all. Pretty unlivable they said.



Botswana is democracy deficient - experts

TSHIRELETSO MOTLOGELWA


*Report charactererises Botswana as a minimalist democracy that lacks broad-based participation




The report, part of the renowned Democracy Index series run by South Africa-based Institute for Democracy in Southern Africa (IDASA), provides an in-depth analysis of the state of democracy in Botswana.

http://www.mmegi.bw/index.php?sid=1&aid=406&dir=2012/May/Tuesday22


Prof Dr. Kenneth Good who has worked extensively on Botswana´s success story has shed some critical light upon Botswana´s development...that led to his expulsion from the country..for speaking his mind freely that the government didn´t want to hear. It is up to you what you make out of it....

Kenneth Good was Professor of Political Studies at the University of Botswana when he was declared an “unwanted immigrant” and expelled from the country. Now he has written a book that expands on the research that caused the controversy: Diamonds, Dispossession and Democracy in Botswana.

Thanks to diamonds, Botswana’s growth rate was the highest in the world in the thirty years into the 1990s. Since the eve of independence in 1965 it has held regular parliamentary elections which were judged free on polling day. However, a duopoly of presidentialism and ruling party predominance stimulated arrogance and complacency among the country’s rulers, stifling debate and preventing change.

http://jacana.bookslive.co.za/blog/...onds-dispossession-and-democracy-in-botswana/

or here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4597053.stm


Fancy firgures and ugly facts in Botswana´s economic growth (academic paper)


http://ir.lib.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/metadb/up/kiyo/AN10482914/JIDC_15-1_19.pdf
(....)

As a middle-income country with a strong and growing economy and a population of less than 1.8 million people, Botswana has an unemployment rate of 17.6 percent and a poverty headcount of 30.1 percent.

Labour statistics indicate that the gap between the growth rate of the country's GDP and the employment growth rate has been widening and has, as a matter of fact (...)

The distribution of wealth in the country has become more disproportionate, with the result that Botswana has one of the highest levels of inequalities in the world (...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7297374.stm

Ghana, yes, it is held up a a ray of hope in Africa. Yes, it has had alternations of power for which it should be given credit for but what has improved for the people. The vast majority of educated Ghanaians have gone to look for greener pastures elsewhere. I know Ghanaians where I live and they don´t bear the intention to return to Ghana – despite the recent oil boom and the "wonders" it ought to bring along.



SA is a bit of a tricky box. On the surface, it looks like a Western society/country (which is probably due to the presence of roughly 5 million Whites who have shaped the country/cities/infrastructure/economy to a considerable degree during the inhumane apartheid regime ...much to the disadvantage of the black majoirty & the mulatto & Indian & Arab and Malay minority).
After the return to formal democracy almost 20 years ago, things have not truly improved considerably for the masses.....(although you have a comparatively strong black middle class) ..Nevertheless, the downside is massive SA has inefficient public institutions/administration which have deteriorated considerably in the course of the last 20 years, there is rampant crime and pervasive corruption, a sky-high unemployment which officially (!) runs at more than 30 %. The ANC has failed to deliver and it very much fits what Andrew Mwega wrote in that article that I posted above. I could go on and on but I will stop here.

Zambia..I have to be honest ..and I am not so well aware of that country´s politics in detail.. But I am sure that you could quickly whip up support for an anti-government protest over there...after all, Zambia continues to be a dirt poor little country - due to World Bank and UN figures which are available online (for instance a narrow export base, no value adding to finished products/raw materials, poor social and physical infrastructure, a non-diversified economy, virtually a colonial-based/-inherited and almost non-transformed economy...). Zambia has nither any diplomatic nor political influence in Africa...and that white vice-president who was chosen as an affront/direct offence in the light of Zimbabwe´s harsh anti-white politics - and to portray the country as cosmopolitan & racial blind - is a bit of a joke to me, sorry.



Senegal...I am a great admirer of Wade, he was the only - and I repeat the only post-independent president - that did something good for Senegal - given its financially strapped means. (One can search for that in vain when it comes to his predecessors. Senghor, a great intelectual mind whom I respect for his literary work, however, showed a greater interest for France than for his own country). Yes, Wade was far from perfect and displayed an autocratic tendency towards the close of his tenure..nonetheless, my respect and admiration for him and his keen intelligence remains unabated. I wonder what will change for the better with that new president? What will be the benefit for the people that has been waiting for a social dividend for decades.
In the end, Senegal remains a poor country with little manouvre and shares a lot of the characteristics that are common in almost all the African countries (high aid-dependencies, a mono-structural economy, human brain drain....there are around 2 million Senegalese in France and around 10 million back in Senegal...and there are more Senegalese living in Gabon than viceversa although the latter is anything but a democracy.)

I could go on and on but these debates are truly endless...

So, if one talks about democracy, one has to face up to these glaring facts FIRST..even if they are bitter to swallow – given that these above-mentioned countries are already the rays of hope in terms of “democracy” in Africa. Far too often democratic elections led to massive bloodshed and wars in Africa in so many countries.

As I said earlier (back a year or so ago in the Oasis), Africa needs strong and non-pliable institutions (in many cases even culturally adapted and locally rooted institution-building) and long-term political stability (especialy for local and foreign investors..people will feel less inclinded to invest when you don´t know whether your house will be in flames tomorrow again, metaphorically speaking) and above all a visionary leader (sounds romantic, yes) who vigorously forties socio-economic growth & cements broad-based development ...in those so-called electoral democracies and beyond (with the exception of the island nation of Mauritius whose path of development points into that direction in some ways), I cannot see that, I am afraid.
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You haven´t understood how Africa (and the world) works...but I don´t blame you for that, it is the system that you are exposed to!

And just because I live in Europe (btw, I am not European, whatever that means?) makes me love democracy blindly. The logic, I cannot fully understand.

Btw, where did I say that Dos Santos should be the king of Angola, please!? Read the articles posted, especially that from Andrew Mwenda which perfectly highlights the situation:)
You are the one you claimed to be half German, am I wrong? And even if you weren't, wishing Angola to be a monarchy is me a Angolan a big offense. Many times before you should you desire to continue seeing Dos Santos as the president of Angola. That's is your opinion and I respect it. But please, don't tell me a war is on the way just because of an election, which is a right of the Angolan people according to the Constitution.
In 2008 we had also elections and I don't remember seeing it lead to a battle field afterwards. We Angolans have right to choose the best leader for our country. And is about time for Dos Santos and all his pack to go! You clearly don't know the real situation in Angola to support, almost blindly, MPLA the way you do..
And let me just say that, I don't believe someone can be irreplaceable! Not even my parents are, so why should the president be??

Skytrax, is that what people think of me here (..."deixa o matt é um louco)"? You - as a moderator - should tell that into my face as well and I will draw my conclusions. Do have the courage to tell me that if that is the case, please! I am truly not obliged to invest my time and energy in here. Better I know that now than later. Thank you.
You should act a little bit more mature and take the criticisms for the situation you created by yourself! Did I ever called you "crazy"? So, what are you talking about??
Moreover, I don't think is cool to threat to remove all your post every time someone is not on the same path as yours. I'm sorry but this is a very childish attitude!
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You are the one you claimed to be half German, am I wrong?
Claiming something and being something are two different things. What gives you the assurance that I am who I claim to be? Just because I say that....hopefully, you understand what I am alluding to if you put that into a larger context, skytrax.;)

And even if you weren't, wishing Angola to be a monarchy is me a Angolan a big offense.
Where did I say that I long for a monarchy specifically in Angola? I said Thank God there is a constitutional monarchy in Morocco which gives some stability as opposed to the chaos in the rest of the North Africa..

. But please, don't tell me a war is on the way just because of an election, which is a right of the Angolan people according to the Constitution.
In 2008 we had also elections and I don't remember seeing it lead to a battle field afterwards.
History has been unfair with Angola...and democractic elections were once planned shortly after independence.......and we all know where that led to, don´t we? Back in the early 1990s, elections replunged the country back into war.

Without being Mr Doom but I already see the scores of youth running through the streets and burning down everything just because they are paid by some people in the opposition (or God know who) in order to create chaos...and I already read the reports by Western media on that although these articles have not even been published yet.

In Africa, things can turn around in a matter of "seconds". It just takes some right manoeuvring at a right time by some "forces" to push through their agenda and the country can be set aflame quickly. (it doesn´t mean it has to be that way, automatically.....but it is not unlikely)

We Angolans have right to choose the best leader for our country. And is about time for Dos Santos and all his pack to go!
You do, certainly...if that makes a difference.
Moreovver, that phrase can be heard in so many other countries, it is a never-ending story. In France, Mr Sarkozy was viewed as a "sarviour" when he entered office and eclipsed self-complacent Mr. Chirac but he ended as a shattered figure much worse than Chirac. Now there is the Socialist Monsieur. Hollande ..and I predict today - just like I predicted for Sarkozy back then - that he will follow the same path of disillusionment like his predecessors. History repeated!

You clearly don't know the real situation in Angola to support, almost blindly, MPLA the way you do..
I know more than you think, skytrax.

And let me just say that, I don't believe someone can be irreplaceable! Not even my parents are, so why should the president be??
Sad, parents who have inhaled life into you should be at least irreplacable for you, don´t you think so? I do agree for the president, though...but to compare a president to one´s parents is truly far-fetched.

You should act a little bit more mature and take the criticisms for the situation you created by yourself!
So you agree with what he said then?

Moreover, I don't think is cool to threat to remove all your post every time someone is not on the same path as yours. I'm sorry but this is a very childish attitude!
Where did I say to remove all my posts? Kindly show that to me. I cannot read it.

And please don´t twist around everything, if someone says "Matt e um louco" - given all the time, effort that I invested in here...I think that it is more than legitimate to ask you - as a moderator - if that is a generally held view? I would like to know it, if that is truly the case. You would like to know that, too , if you were me and someone labelled you like that...just because I have a different opinion on that topic. This has nothing to do with being childish! You get my point?
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