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go bears
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
baltic sea tunnel (97km) proposed

Knut Halvorsen (MD, Oslo Teknopol) proposed a 97km railway tunnel between Malmö (Sweden) and Stralsund (Germany). It would be the longest tunnel of the world.

Some facts:
- investment volume: € 20billion (total projekt costs including connections)
- investors: state of Norway and some companies
- route: Oslo, Malmö, Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Adria
- start of construction: 2020
- opening: 2030



According to Eckhardt Rehberg (CDU) the tunnel will be proposed in the german parliament in november 2011.

sources: (1) http://www.ostsee-zeitung.de (german), (2) http://nachrichten.t-online.de (german), (3) http://www.ostsee-zeitung.de (german)

Fehmarnbelt Tunnel thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=700936&highlight=tunnel+fehmarn
 

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I don't see how it could break through. It would be the shortest connection between Eastern Germany and Sweden, but for all the rest of Germany (the regions where most people live and most of the industry can be found) and Western Europe the route via Fehmarnbelt is more attractive as the connecting railroads provide better connections. That proposal simply doesn't make sense and I'm very sure that it won't be buildt.
 

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With 20 billion Euros in the budget plus a staggering maintenance cost, there is no chance it will be built. Plus, there is another route that doesn't need that much tunnel and the cost of building it is way less than the 20 billion Euro proposal. Probably, even less than 10 billion Euros.
 

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^^ oh hell no we wont! :) but I can't see the argument here nor any logic, when we compare the other possibilities. I made this to explain:



Brown, is the Øresundbridge, both highway and a doubletrack railroad, main connection between Denmark and Sweden, with the large airport Amager in the middle. The capacity is maxed out, completely sometimes, a huge increase in cargo transportation and the successful integrated regional rail which connects Copehagen, the richest part of the suburb, over the bridge with whole Scania (South Sweden)

Red line, is the femern connection, double track railroad tunnel underseas. To this project, is an upgrade of the connecting rail line to double track and 200 km/h most of the way.

Orange line a new proposed, highly likely to be constructed, link between DK and Sweden. The most ideal solution to the capacity problem, is a rather extensive project. Double track passengers rail tunnel, single (hopefully changed to double) cargo line along with a highway in tunnels. This tunnel will be followed by a highway and double tracked rail line around Copenhagen (so called ring-5) And it will be directly connected to the existing main line, and the under-construction HSR line. So capacity can be fully optimized.

Green. If the "orange line" is chosen, which I would say its highly likely even thou its extensiveness, maxing capacity could be done by constructing the green line, its going of from a very unpopulated area in Denmark, with an abandoned road. Only reason it's on our maps, is it has a ferry connection. Interestingly is that even the ferry company has argued for and voted for this tunnel, which would probably be a cargo used rail line, as it will mostly have interests to eastern Europe.

All this would be superior to the tunnel, compared to it's uses and cost. 92 km tunnel is a looong tunnel, and the orange line is highly likely to be constructed. But I've had the idea of a direct tunnel myself! :)
 

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A tunnel or bridge from Sweden to Finland (Stockholm - Turku) seems more plausible to me.
This!
A highway/railway to Norrtälje/Grisslehamn, jump the Sea of Åland, then through Åland to Åbo.


But back to topic: Why would yo do this when there is a better alternative through Denmark? And a tunnel from Malmö seems stupid since the closest point between Sweden and Germany is from Trelleborg.
 

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Feral
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This makes sense only as a freight RR bypass of the Copenhagen area, but that assumes that there is severe RR congestion there. Since I don't think there is, it's certainly two or three generations away from feasibility. Stockhom-Turku and Tallinn-Helsinki seem more probable to me (nextgen fixed (freight?) links).
 

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go bears
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Discussion Starter #11
With 20 billion Euros in the budget plus a staggering maintenance cost, there is no chance it will be built. Plus, there is another route that doesn't need that much tunnel and the cost of building it is way less than the 20 billion Euro proposal. Probably, even less than 10 billion Euros.
as long as it's not my money (or not so much of it) i can live with that :)
 

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Gincan
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It is the crazy Norwegian dream of a railway connection between Oslo and Berlin in 3 hours, to be able to do it that fast would require a 350-380km/h HSR line including this absurd tunnel. But hey, they got their oil money so I say let them pay for it.
 

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This makes sense only as a freight RR bypass of the Copenhagen area, but that assumes that there is severe RR congestion there. Since I don't think there is...
As far I know, the Oresund has around 6 passenger trains per hour per direction, quite a lot. This might leave other 6-8 other paths, if the passenger service will not increase.
 

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Not that I have knowledge about such stuff but wouldn't it be cheaper first to build a bridge to this one island in the batlic sea make the rail line cross the whole island and then build a tunnel under the water?

 

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Cold Ass Honkey
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^^
The island you have in mind is Rügen. ;)



And yes, a connection via Rügen would make more sense although this whole project seems to me irrational. :sly:
 

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go bears
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Discussion Starter #16
the shortest connection between sweden and the german mainland is about 105km, so the tunnel MUST end on Rügen. the figure seems to be incorrect.
 

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What is the current state of progress with the second crossing of the sound barrier, at Elsinore?

And what is the state of progress with the crossing of Kadetrinne, between Gedser and Darß?
 

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Orange line a new proposed, highly likely to be constructed, link between DK and Sweden. The most ideal solution to the capacity problem, is a rather extensive project. Double track passengers rail tunnel, single (hopefully changed to double) cargo line along with a highway in tunnels. This tunnel will be followed by a highway and double tracked rail line around Copenhagen (so called ring-5) And it will be directly connected to the existing main line, and the under-construction HSR line. So capacity can be fully optimized.
Yes the Helsinborg - Helsingor make the biggest sense as the route is the shortest one. I think spend money on highway tunnel is the waste of money - only railway tunnel is cheaper and more ecological (you shouldn't put more cars to Copenhagen). You can have also train carrying cars like in La Manche tunnel.

The Helsinborg - Halmstad rail line (forward Goteborg) have to be upgraded and at least double tracked.
 

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I don't see the point of this. Sweden should shave it's money for a possible link with Finland. If the second Oresund bridge is built and capacity around Copenhagen improved then there is very little gain by such a proposed tunnel. With the new bridge, most of the traffic coming in from Gotheborg and Norway can go straight to the smaller bridge instead of going through Malmo.

A Stockholm-Turku-Helsinki link though would be amazing.
 
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