Great thread, makes a change from trains.
That map makes sense and extending the motorway would create economic growth in north Liverpool, and allow the Port of Liverpool to develop. The extension of the A5300 and the A557, make perfect economic sense, for south Liverpool and the airport. I'm skeptical though about the prospects of a new bridge or tunnel being built between north Liverpool and New Brighton, but what I would suggest, if the rest of those proposals were to happen, but with the a5207 connected to the dock road and the Mersey Tunnels. when I say the dock road I don't mean Great Howard Street and Derby Road, I mean the lower dock road which could be widened to allow a free flow of traffic, I think it's called Regent Road, I don't drive.Just wanted to share a little fantasy which I thought might interest a few. The fantasy is one where existing A roads in the area would be converted into motorways to create one complete cross-river orbital motorway for the entire city. You bet your bottom dollar if this was London (or Manchester), the idea would have been well and truly discussed at length, so please indulge me…It may have already been thought of on here…
I think it would be fairly simple (in fantasy land at least), to complete the new orbital motorway…
The existing A5036 from its junction with M57/M58 to Seaforth would be converted to motorway. There would then need to be some sort of cross river bridge or tunnel to connect this road to the A554 on the New Brighton side of the Mersey. The A554 right down to its junction with M53 would then be converted.
To complete the orbital, the Knowsley Expressway (A5300) would be converted, as well as A562, A533 and A557 all the way down to M56. Voila, one complete orbital motorway for the Liverpool City Region of 1.6 million people. It would take approximately 50 miles to do one complete circle, that’s a slightly larger circumference than the M60 Manchester Orbital and less than half the M25. Imagine Bootle to Bidston in 5 minutes, or Litherland to Leasowe in ten!
I'm not sure but I think it is because the road is not part of the national motorway network and is therefore funded at a regional level. In fact, I remember hearing that the section of the M62 from Jcn 6 (where it intersects the M57) and Jcn 4 (at Queens Drive) is not considered part of the national motorway network as the main route is via the M57 to the Port of Liverpool.Why is the knowsley expressway not already part of the M57? Why isn't the M58 and M57 the same road? It seems it could be easily achieved by cutting the corner across a field.
The original plan for the M53 was to go from the Wallasey tunnel and head across Hooton to link up with what is now the A55 linking Holyhead with Liverpool (Remember the bridge bit just before the A41 junction) The likes of Shell , Vauxhall ,Octel and Van Leer kicked up a fuss and got a link road built first , this is what the M53 is now , a 2 lane motorway serving nearly 350,000 people hno: this explains the mad 90 degree bend at junction 5 ! The project ran out of money and it is only in the last 10 years that they demolished the bridge bit at junction 5Some good ideas there. I can't see there being a bridge/tunnel across Liverpool Bay like that. A different option would be to take the M53 through the Wallasey Tunnel and then make a new motorway either out of Scotland Road, or more probably, via the Dock Road north. It could go through the dock estate and then swing back inland for Switch Island (which should finally be a decent, multi-level interchange).
The M53 does a similar thing to the Knowsley Expressway, working its way round Chester at exactly the same standard but suddenly it's the A55. In fact you could probably count the entire A55 in the "why isn't it a motorway?" category.
Indeed, I read somewhere that even today roadside marker posts indicate that the M53 is measured from the Liverpool end of the tunnel, not from the start of the motorway in Wallasey, testament to the fact that the Kingsway Tunnel was originally earmarked as the start of M53. It seems that our city region has been dogged by failed after failed highway scheme over the years, but I still feel very strongly that a conurbation of 1.6 million deserves a fully functional continuous orbital on both sides of the Mersey.The original plan for the M53 was to go from the Wallasey tunnel and head across Hooton to link up with what is now the A55 linking Holyhead with Liverpool
Dublin & Amsterdam are examples, their ring roads also cross river sections. They're both on the coast and have similar populations to our region, albeit they are capitals. Lisbon and the towns opposite also have one complete orbital crossing the river at two points, but different parts of the orbital have different numbers, it's virtually the same thing though...Add to that Antwerpen.How would you justify an orbital motorway for Liverpool? After all, how much of the traffic that goes through our city is going somewhere else other than Liverpool? How many coastal cities have orbital motorways?
I love the concept, but I doubt any of the 3 routes you've shown would be suitable for a motorway.It gets a bit complicated and built up round North Liverpool with suburban houses facing onto the main A roads, especially round Litherland etc...so extending the motorway would no doubt be messy and a few flyovers here and there would be probably be needed. From what yous are saying, there's 3 possible routes? It's probably not too accurate and over general but here goes the revised proposal...
Some good points! Just to update on what is actually happening. The new Thornton bypass will connect the Switch Island M57/M58 interchange with the A565 to Crosby. You could argue this bypass is essentially an extension of the M57, and it follows more or less the original intentions of the 1960's, but wait for it...the Thornton bypass will be a single carriageway!! :madwife: It beggars belief, but I suppose there's scope for it to be widened in the future?I don't think the Kingsway tunnel could be a full motorway because of the tight curves on the Liverpool exit, but that's no barrier to it being part of an orbital - the M25 isn't technically a full circle, because the Dartford crossings aren't motorway. I'd like this scheme to go ahead just as a way of sorting out the horrible mess that is Switch Island. The M57 really should go all the way to the coast, and there really should be a decent, free-flowing connection with the M58.
If there was a new tunnel or bridge being built, I'd much rather have a decent crossing of the Dee. It'd slice a massive amount of time off the trip from Liverpool to Holyhead and North Wales and effectively make that portion of the country commutable.