Skyscraper City Forum banner
1 - 20 of 1101 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,167 Posts
What do you think guys?

Re: electronic surveillance - ISAFP has been doing this for years now so no "big" deal

Re: Removal of the clause "Protector of the People [and the State]" - this has been used by mutineers and coup plotters indeed as an "excuse" to intervene politically

---

AFP chief rejects limits to electronic surveillance in draft charter
Published July 6, 2018 8:54am

The head of the military on Thursday said he is opposed to some of the provisions in the proposed new charter drafted by President Rodrigo Duterte's Consultative Committee (Con-com).

Interviewed after the presentation of the draft constitution to the military in Camp Aguinaldo, Armed Forces chief General Carlito Galvez said he is not in favor of the proposed limitation in the conduct of electronic surveillance.

He said such limitation may result to "unintended consequence" like the dismissal of cases against suspects.

Galvez also said he is opposed to the removal of the "protector of the people" role of the AFP, noting that the military takes "pride" in being the protector of the people and the State.

"That is what the communists want to be removed," said Galvez.

The presentation of the amendments in the Constitution was led by retired Army Lt. Gen. Ferdinand Bocobo and was attended by hundreds of officers and enlisted men.

Bocobo, a lawyer, said under the proposed new charter, civilian authority remains supreme over the military but said they removed the phrase "protector of the people" mandate of the AFP.

He said the phrase was "used before by our mutineers and coup plotters."

"It's really the government that is the protector of the people," he said.


<snipped>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,177 Posts
^ I agree. Civilian authority remains supreme. That is why a civilian is CiC.

I'm on the fence on surveillance though. The US had the benefit of having NSA and the FBI doing that for them. We don't have it. The AFP, NBI and PNP have separate intelligence departments. The US, in the current environment, still found this lacking and created the Dept of Homeland Security.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,101 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
^^ I very much don't like the inclusion of party-list on the regional level. It is very prone to hijack by the leftists. Imagine, half of the regional legislative members will be partylist members.

I hope Duterte holds true to his disgust towards the partylists para naman matanggal itong provision na ito.
 

·
woof! woof!
Joined
·
2,864 Posts
In a presidential federal system, multi parties is a big No no. There should only be two parties - consolidate all the liberal-leaning and conservative-leaning parties so we only have a bipartisan system like the US. No Party lists please.

On Judicial system - we can also adopt a jury system at federal and state level. Let the qualified citizens asses and decide whether the proof presented in the court is true or not and would be used as the basis for applying the law.

On issue of national security and military as the protector of the people - Leave it out of the constitution and let the federal government legislate it separately. We need to strike a balance between the needs of our national security and the compromise on the human rights outlined in the Constitution. Have the citizens challenge the Constitutionality of the laws passed in the federal supreme court.
 

·
Evolving... Please wait.
Joined
·
3,954 Posts
Sitoy wants Cebu as separate federated region


CEBU, Philippines — Presidential Adviser on Legislative Affairs, Secretary Adelino Sitoy, wants Cebu to be a separate federated region under the proposed new federal constitution.

Sitoy formally submitted his plea to the Constitutional Committee (Con-Com) formed by President Rodrigo Duterte to draft the federal constitution of which he was appointed as an observer.

He said that while Cebu and Bohol provinces would remain in Central Visayas, Bohol has no fighting chance in any election at large like that of a senator in federated region considering its population of only 1,313,560 while Cebu has almost five million inhabitants.

“In all likelihood, Cebu will be dubbed by Boholanos as ‘Imperial Cebu’ like that of Imperial Manila,” Sitoy said.

(snipped)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
In a presidential federal system, multi parties is a big No no. There should only be two parties - consolidate all the liberal-leaning and conservative-leaning parties so we only have a bipartisan system like the US. No Party lists please.

On Judicial system - we can also adopt a jury system at federal and state level. Let the qualified citizens asses and decide whether the proof presented in the court is true or not and would be used as the basis for applying the law.

On issue of national security and military as the protector of the people - Leave it out of the constitution and let the federal government legislate it separately. We need to strike a balance between the needs of our national security and the compromise on the human rights outlined in the Constitution. Have the citizens challenge the Constitutionality of the laws passed in the federal supreme court.
^^ Here's for you:

Composition of federal republic

Half of the regional legislative assembly members will be elected as representatives of component provinces, and independently-chartered or highly-urbanized cities, while the remaining half will be filled by representatives of political parties who obtain a certain number of votes during the regional elections.
https://news.mb.com.ph/2018/07/03/draft-federal-constitution-okd/

^^ I pray Duterte will remove the participation of partylists in our federal system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,601 Posts
^^
I am of the same opinion. I read that the ConCom proposed 240 Congressman and 160 partylist? Mas lalong dumami? Tapos naging 36 Senators? Since the Senators are elected from each federal state, i think unicameral is sufficient. Besides, each state will already have a state legislature. So yung Federal Congress, enough na yun. No more Senate. Dapat paradigm shift. Parang na retain lang yung existing structure. Dumami pa.

No to the 160 partylist.
 

·
tolits_dbzman
Joined
·
124 Posts
I think the retention of the Senate is a compromise. This move will definitely go down the drain if the Senate is removed. Sino ba naman ang bubuto ng pabor dito sa mga senadpr kung saan sila ay mawawala? Remember, after the draft approval of the president, dadaan ito sa both houses of congress for scrutiny and final approval before the "paradigm shift". Or so I thought.
 

·
tolits_dbzman
Joined
·
124 Posts
However, definitely yes to the removal of party-list. Isa yan sa rason kong bakit malaki ang takot ng mga "regressive groups" sa federal shift na yan. Alam kasi nilang ayaw ng prez sa kanila. Wala na silang magagatasan. Aminin man nila o hindi.
 

·
woof! woof!
Joined
·
2,864 Posts
^^
I am of the same opinion. I read that the ConCom proposed 240 Congressman and 160 partylist? Mas lalong dumami? Tapos naging 36 Senators? Since the Senators are elected from each federal state, i think unicameral is sufficient. Besides, each state will already have a state legislature. So yung Federal Congress, enough na yun. No more Senate. Dapat paradigm shift. Parang na retain lang yung existing structure. Dumami pa.

No to the 160 partylist.
In a federal structure, dapat hindi unicameral yan - bicameral pa rin. The Senate in a federal government serves as an equalizer when it comes to passing bills kasi bawat estado kahit malaki o maliit may tig-iisa o tig-dadalawang representative hindi tulad ng congress na yung representation depende yan sa bilang ng district sa isang estado (i.e. kung mas malaki estado, mas madaming district, mas madaming representatives). Kung unicameral tayo, hindi magiging patas ang pag pasa ng batas sa mga maliliit o mga mahihirap na estado.

In a US federal structure, both the upper and the lower houses are actually equals when it comes to passing the bills. May mga bills kasi na baka pabor sa mga malalaki at malalakas na mga estado na pinapasa sa lower house pero maaring i veto ng senate kung apektado ang mga maliliit at mahihiang estado. They could come up with a modified bill or legislation as a compromise to the original bill for instance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,601 Posts
In a federal structure, dapat hindi unicameral yan - bicameral pa rin. The Senate in a federal government serves as an equalizer when it comes to passing bills kasi bawat estado kahit malaki o maliit may tig-iisa o tig-dadalawang representative hindi tulad ng congress na yung representation depende yan sa bilang ng district sa isang estado (i.e. kung mas malaki estado, mas madaming district, mas madaming representatives). Kung unicameral tayo, hindi magiging patas ang pag pasa ng batas sa mga maliliit o mga mahihirap na estado.

In a US federal structure, both the upper and the lower houses are actually equals when it comes to passing the bills. May mga bills kasi na baka pabor sa mga malalaki at malalakas na mga estado na pinapasa sa lower house pero maaring i veto ng senate kung apektado ang mga maliliit at mahihiang estado. They could come up with a modified bill or legislation as a compromise to the original bill for instance.
Point taken. There are countries with unicameral system that worked for them in the same way that there are also countries with bicameral that works well for them. I want something that will work for a unique Philippine situation.

What is proposed on the national level is pretty much the same. What is new is the "dissemination of decision making" from the national to the local. That said, the national level bureacracy should then be reduced. What i see is an addition. I would love to read another argument on both sides.

In the case of party list, it is still a NO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,601 Posts
I think the retention of the Senate is a compromise. This move will definitely go down the drain if the Senate is removed. Sino ba naman ang bubuto ng pabor dito sa mga senadpr kung saan sila ay mawawala? Remember, after the draft approval of the president, dadaan ito sa both houses of congress for scrutiny and final approval before the "paradigm shift". Or so I thought.
Is it possible if they instead propose two versions - one Unicameral and one Bicameral. Pagpipilian ng mga tao. Wala namang effect sa local. They can make two versions.

I think the Senate have this gut feel that the public does not want them that is why they will not propose that. How about leaving it to the electorate to decide whether we want uni- or bi-.
 

·
woof! woof!
Joined
·
2,864 Posts
Point taken. There are countries with unicameral system that worked for them in the same way that there are also countries with bicameral that works well for them. I want something that will work for a unique Philippine situation.

What is proposed on the national level is pretty much the same. What is new is the "dissemination of decision making" from the national to the local. That said, the national level bureacracy should then be reduced. What i see is an addition. I would love to read another argument on both sides.

In the case of party list, it is still a NO.
We would defeat the purpose of federalism if we go unicameral. Actually, our current system is pretty much unicameral if you think about it. The senators we elect does not represent the interest of all the provinces and that is the reason why Manila earns the criticism of being too imperialistic. The Senate does not really have a function other than policing the bills of the lower house instead of serving as an equalizer (particularly on budgetary matters) that might be of concern to either large and small provinces, towns or cities.

In a federal set up, the powers between the national and state governments should be concurrent.. The Senate is an extension of that power in that all states should be evenly represented at a federal level.

The only unicameral structure there is should be the state governments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,601 Posts
Actually, our current system is pretty much unicameral if you think about it. The senators we elect does not represent the interest of all the provinces and that is the reason why Manila earns the criticism of being too imperialistic.
Correct. In addition, many of its elected members are Manila based personalities who were not really politicians but actors, newscasters, sports figures, socialites, radio personalities, children of popular personalities, etc. And that is maybe one key reason why a lot of people are so turned off they want the upper chamber scrapped. Ano naman pakialam nila sa mga probinsya (meaning places outside Metro Manila).

This supports the argument for Senators elected from each state.

The Senate does not really have a function other than policing the bills of the lower house instead of serving as an equalizer (particularly on budgetary matters) that might be of concern to either large and small provinces, towns or cities.
In fairness though, the Senate also passed their own version of laws that is why there have been instances that the lower house and the senate create a committee to reconcile their respective versions of a proposed law.
 

·
woof! woof!
Joined
·
2,864 Posts
In fairness though, the Senate also passed their own version of laws that is why there have been instances that the lower house and the senate create a committee to reconcile their respective versions of a proposed law.
For some reason, I see this current set up with the Senate as a redundant and unnecessary function for legislation and that's probably how the people see it and wants it abolished. This would have functioned just fine without the Senate anyway.

In a Federal set up, the function of the Senate would really come into play if the states or provinces gets to elect them since they would consider the interests of their constituents whenever the bills are being reviewed and approved especially when it comes to allocation of the federal budget and how it plays well with the financial situation with their programs lined up (roadworks, education, police, public health, etc) of their home states.
 
1 - 20 of 1101 Posts
Top