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skyscraper connoisseur
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2009/07/27/2637507.htm

There has to some tough reforms to put in place to restrict the link between getting an education here to permanent residency. Just getting an education here is totally inadequate to reside in Australia. In the video, the vast majority of Indian students would study here so they have a chance to get permanent residency visa. So rogue educational institutions are formed exploiting foreign students and adjust their programs to have better chance of obtaining PR.

Agent register set up to fight foreign student rorts said:
Over the past month a network of some education agents, education providers and migration agents has been exposed for reaping substantial profits by supplying false documents for potential visa applicants. Students also have come forward with claims of mistreatment, corruption and violent attacks.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/agen...ight-foreign-student-rorts-20090726-dxid.html



I hate this garbage printed by the Sun Herald. I don't care if 40,000 students are in limbo because of permanent residency changes. All candidates for permanent residency visa to have high competency in English language and complete government run courses on Australia's history, geography and Civics like all Australians who completed their year 10. In addition, they should work and live in Australia for a minimum of 4 years before satisfying one of selection criteria. Within that 4 years they should have no criminal records. Obtaining PR is just too easy and it creates the whole system of black market to profit from this scheme.

40 said:
MORE than 40,000 students who expected to gain permanent residency in Australia may not qualify because of recent policy changes, research estimates.

The Rudd Government has removed most vocational trades, including plumbing, welding and carpentry from its skills priority list, making it harder for international students with those qualifications to gain permanent residency.

Monash University demographer Bob Birrell says the changes, implemented this year, were not getting through to the international student community. He said enrolments in vocational training were on the rise and most students expected their qualifications would lead to permanent residency.

In a new paper, Dr Birrell estimated more than 40,000 international students with vocational skills had applied for permanent residency, adding however, that their visa status was currently "in limbo".

"The changes will make it much more difficult for those students to obtain permanent residency," he told AAP.

But Dr Birrell said there remained other paths for students to gain permanent residency. Their applications would be processed if the Government's 2009-10 target of 180,000 skilled migration visas was not met.

They could also access a 458 visa, which would allow them to work for 18 months, during which time they could apply for permanent residency.

Dr Birrell said the Rudd Government needed to ensure that changes to the migration policy were crystal clear to overseas countries.

The Federal Opposition agreed, saying students should know their visa rights and obligations before they decided to study in Australia.

The research paper, Immigration Policy Change and the International Student Industry, will be published in Monash University's quarterly publication People and Place tomorrow.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25819495-5005961,00.html

Australian residency laws get tougher said:
Thousands of Indian students enrolled in vocational courses like cookery and hairdressing, which till now allowed a 'fast track' to permanent residency, will have to sit for a test requiring 'competent' English language skills while applying to live and work in Australia [ Images ].

"Trades people applying to live and work in Australia permanently from July one will require increased English language skills," according to new immigration policy changes issued by the Australian Immigration Department

The change will mean that people applying for the general skilled migration visas overseas will have to pass a test showing they have competent English. In the past, the pass mark was based on vocational English, a lower standard.

"Trades people lodging skilled migration visa applications overseas will be required to meet the new English language level under International English Language Testing System test.

"This change will bring trade-related occupations in line with the English language level required for all other occupations on the Skilled Occupation List," the department said, adding that research has shown that migrants proficient in English have better employment outcomes.

Earlier, international students, including Indians, who completed courses in hairdressing and cookery were getting extra migration points towards applications for permanent residency because the two trades were included on the Migration Occupations in Demand List.

Asked if cookery and hairdressing courses wherein Indian students were enrolled in large numbers were removed from the list, a spokesperson from Immigration Department told PTI that 'unless applicants with these qualifications are sponsored by an employer or state/territory government, their applications for permanent residency are not being processed as a priority.'

The new changes were part of the government's plan to take up a task of constructing a long-term planning framework for migration.

Last month, Australian Government also announced reducing permanent skilled migrant intake for 2009–10 Migration Programme, in response to the continued economic slowdown, according to minister for immigration and citizenship, Chris Evans.

"The government remains committed to a strong migration programme but unemployment in Australia is expected to increase as the economy slows," Evans said.

The migration intake in the coming year reflects the economic climate while ensuring employers can gain access to skilled professionals in industries still experiencing skills shortages, he said.

"The reduction is being achieved through a cutback in places for the general skilled category rather than in the high-demand employer-sponsored category or in areas in which Australia has critical skills shortages," Evans said.

The new changes of withdrawing most vocational trades, including plumbing, welding and carpentry from its skills priority list, apart from proposal to remove cookery and hairdressing from the list of occupational skills in short supply was a seen as a step that may have widespread ramifications for the 15-billion-dollar international education industry of the country.

Hairdressing and cookery were popular courses among Indian students as extra migration points allowed a 'fast track' to their residency in Australia.

The new changes could affect students enrollment number from India.

For the year to July, national training sector enrollments jumped 44 per cent on the previous year, reflecting the popularity of private training colleges as lucrative businesses thrive on fees from international students.

The Immigration Department spokesperson said that the Australian government's first priority was to provide training and education so that Australians have the skills to address the country's main labour market requirements.

"Our immigration programme is closely linked to this process and seeks to supplement it only where there remains unmet demand for skilled workers," he said.

"In the light of the current economic crisis, only applications from people sponsored by an employer, a state or territory government or with an occupation on the Critical Skills List will be given processing priority. Hairdressers and hospitality workers are not on the CSL," the spokesperson said.

Overseas students who have taken these courses in Australia, if they have skills in short supply, can still be sponsored by an Australian employer and granted a visa, provided they meet all relevant criteria for grant of visa.

The department said that applying for a student visa and applying for general skilled migration are separate processes -- neither there is an entitlement to, nor should it be assumed that permanent migration will follow a finite period of study in Australia.
http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/jul/22/australian-residency-laws-get-tougher.htm
 

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^^ About time these scams are being brought to light.

The VET sector ones (hairdressing, cookery, hospitality etc) are even worse than the so-called "University" course ones like CQU etc.

However, its such an easy (though short-sighted) way to $$$ that I doubt the Govt will crackdown much. Still, hopefully this exposure on Four Corners tonight will at least publicise the immigration rorts.

It really does come down to DIMA after all. At the very least they should abolish the rule allowing students who have completed their courses to stay on in Oz indefinitely. How many Nepalese hairdressers do we really require etc?!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
It was exposed in SBS Insights last week. The vast majority of students taking hairdressing, cooking or hospitality courses only want to have their application for PR fast-tracked. It makes the mockery of what responsibilities and rights PR obtainers have when residing in Australia.

As far as i'm concerned, they have no use in Australia is they are not proficient in the language of this land. They will be exploited by those wanting to profit from their ignorance like abusing labour laws, human rights, and contract laws. If they are not competent in English then the doctrine of rule of law cannot be applied to them. How will they know the basics of Australian laws if they cannot read them?
 

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Well you can't really blame opportunistic students for gaming the system.

I hope the program doesn't simply blame the education agents (who usually double up as migration agents!), but the Govt too for permitting this to occur. It really shits me that they have the gall to call this "skilled" migration too.

I know of no other country (except for say Fiji, Nauru who sell passports) which allows students a track to PR simply for doing a course on-shore.

Just ask your friendly local (Indian) Woolies clerk or taxi driver and they will confirm that they are studying/studied anything from accountancy to hospitality simply to gain PR, and of course have no intention or likelihood of working in their chosen field of study.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
In my opinion, all private colleges which have licenses to instruct international students should be shut down. Instead, those international students should get their education in government run institutions such as TAFE and universities which has much tougher quality management control. International students have far less chances of being exploited and able to buy their way to obtain program certificates by cheating/fraud.
 

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^^ Nah, these scams take place in TAFEs and Unis too.

In my experience (as a lecturer on an MBA and Business Studies BA course for a "regional" University based in Sydney) I was told to pass students even though they had plagiarised or had below functional English, as they were paying $20k plus per year and they are simply a cash-cow resource.

They also migrate into second year entry by dent of completing a first year in say hospitality in their associated dodgy Business school.

Just notice the tie-ups between business colleges and regional Unis throughout Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane CBDs.

So, imo the massive numbers of overseas students in all of our Unis are dumbing down the value of any Australian degree. The double-irony is then they are called "Skilled" and gain PR from it!

Its just that the truly massive increase in VETAB enrolments, and the associated new dodgy courses like cookery, have taken the focus off the Uni system for the time being.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I would think there would be far less corruption and special favours going on in universities compared to private institutions who merely target international students for profit. I read about that case in the University of Newcastle where lecturers allows students to pass courses because they pay full tuition fees. But that can be easily regulated and control compared to having quality management inspectors verifying hundreds of private institutions.

One thing the government can do is to prescribe minimum standard for English competency before allowing enrollment to selected government regulated educational
institutions instead of delegating the benchmark to universities.

Australian universities have been dumbing down for several years. But the vast majority of students didn't end up graduating from my experience. From 150 1st year students to 44 graduates. In that way, there is some quality management just by mere competition for limited amount of graduate positions.
 

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There is probably a difference between say the GO8 Unis (Sydney etc) and regional Unis like CSU, CQU, JCU, Ballarat etc etc which have so-called campuses in Inner Sydney office blocks, links with Business Colleges for direct entry/shared facilities and have a 100% International student cohort.
 

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Possibly? But O/S students pay even more than full-fee paying local students. Plus they have the problem of usually being non-native English speakers from a rote learning and teacher-centred educational background. This means limited input in tutorials & group work and the resultant soft-marking which occurs to cover for their weak English skills.

Let's hope tomorrow others join in the debate Miliux? :)
 

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This rort has been going on for ages. Having recently been a student it’s hilarious how many of these foreign students sole intention was to satisfy the requirements for permanent residency rather than to obtain qualifications for any sort of career. It's pretty blantant I don't know how anyone could be oblivious to it. lol

I don’t blame the international students though; they have been lured to study here with the promise of getting PR. Unscrupulous education providers have taken advantage of the government’s lax rules and regulations in regards to migration and milked it for all it is worth. It’s disgraceful that it has been going on for this long and nobody has done anything to rectify the situation.

I guess with the Global Financial Crisis and the scarcity of jobs for our own citizens this has caused, it has inevitably turned the spotlight on the unnecessary hundreds of thousands of extra people which provide little benefit to our community.

Surely we’re not in that desperate need of blue collar workers such as community health workers, chefs etc.. that we have to import thousands from developing countries under the guise of “skilled” migration? :eek:hno:

I have nothing against migrants been the offspring of migrant parents myself, but this is getting ridiculous. You see most Indians (the bulk of foreing students aspiring for PR) who eventually attain PR move into blue collar (i.e. bus drivers, ticket inspectors etc...) work because they're English isn't good enough to get any other type of job. In essence they're not much different to the refugee intake so it's a farce to call them "skilled" migrants.
 

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Possibly? But O/S students pay even more than full-fee paying local students. Plus they have the problem of usually being non-native English speakers from a rote learning and teacher-centred educational background. This means limited input in tutorials & group work and the resultant soft-marking which occurs to cover for their weak English skills.

Let's hope tomorrow others join in the debate Miliux? :)
Not true. I work for a Uni and especially at the Postgraduate level full fee domestic places(DFEE) can cost slightly more than international fees.

I work in the Engineering Faculty and I have first hand knowledge of Indian students. The following is my summarisation:

1. They care FIRST about PR. A student is permitted at postgraduate level a certain number of exemptions from previous study - They always take up to the PR threshold and never over it as it would destroy their chance of PR.

2. They overwhelmingly are not capable of independent behaviour. They operate in clumps of people and often fail individually based projects.

3. IELTS is a sham. Not so much for Indian students, mostly for Chinese. I have spoken to students who score 7.5 on IELTS and I am not exaggerating when I say a 2 minute conversation with an Australian student will last up to 25min with one of these International students on exactly the same topic.

I have to repeat myself 15 times, repeat the same answer over and over again. Trying in so many different ways and formats of speech - All because they can not understand English.

I have to explain simple words like: Credit, Fine, online, extension ect.

I have to spend time being a dictionary and a thesaurus. It is exhausting work.
 

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I have no problem with people coming here to work and settle. If they do so by pursuing skills that are in short supply then all the better, of course they're gonna pursuit those avenues which guarantee them a permanent residency.

If they accept and adhere to basic Australian values, are prepared to work hard, and don't break the law then they should be more than welcomed. Compare this with the kind of immigrants that Western European countries get. Folks who don't have any intentions whatsoever to work and have nothing but contempt for the countries' customs and laws.

It shows what a twisted society we are when those that get bashed and robbed because they work hard late into the night are targeted by media whereas those with nothing else to do than hang around and make life hell for others don't even get a mention.
 

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I have 2 friends who teach English at a well known foreign students college in Kangaroo Point in Brisbane and they have both told me the entire skilled visas situation is an immigration scam.

It's also interesting to hear about how some of the nationalities studying can't stand each other, particularly the Koreans versus the Indians apparently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
3. IELTS is a sham. Not so much for Indian students, mostly for Chinese. I have spoken to students who score 7.5 on IELTS and I am not exaggerating when I say a 2 minute conversation with an Australian student will last up to 25min with one of these International students on exactly the same topic.
This is why i move heaven and earth in not doing projects with them in university because they do not have proficiency in the level of English. What use do they have if they cannot articulate and express in concise format in a social science/philosophy course? It makes the mockery of the rest of student's intelligence because our degree has dummed down to accommodate their laziness to learn English. They won't/can't participate in projects. The rest of group participants cannot understand their language nor their project management skills. I have low morale because i can't get their input. I asked the course director for special circumstances about my situation so i can stop them passing this course and get the hell our of uni from their failure.

This analogy can be applied to society in general and their participation in the civil society, or lack of. If they cannot speak English then they are totally useless here. Society is miserable because we cannot engage with them; they are miserable thinking that we're discriminatory and have stereotype of them. Nobody wins if we are not in the same frequency.

Where will they practice their English? Home? Work? Friends? Colleagues? Proficiency level of their English should be in par of Year 10, the same level where almost all Australians have completed. No special accommodation should be established just because they're from abroad.
 

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I think its also worth noting that we get the dregs of the international students, as the intelligent and eloquent ones gain admission to US/UK institutions and Australia seems happy to provide for the rest
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
What person would pay potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars on living and study cost to do hospitality, tourism and cooking courses just to earn a fraction above the minimum wage? And they traveled half way across the world. They are merely economic migrants to get a PR.

These are the people who would cheat their way to get a PR.
 

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As far as i'm concerned, they have no use in Australia is they are not proficient in the language of this land.
A bit harsh...Give 'em some time to assimilate. You can't learn a language over night.
 

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This is why i move heaven and earth in not doing projects with them in university because they do not have proficiency in the level of English. What use do they have if they cannot articulate and express in concise format in a social science/philosophy course? It makes the mockery of the rest of student's intelligence because our degree has dummed down to accommodate their laziness to learn English. They won't/can't participate in projects. The rest of group participants cannot understand their language nor their project management skills. I have low morale because i can't get their input.
Judging by your high standards your English and Dutch must be perfect. Your lucky. Most people I know find it hard mastering a number of languages. It has nothing to do with laziness.
 
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