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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
East Prussia


After WWII this part became part of Russia and Poland.
Memelland became part of Lithuania in 1923.



Main idea is

- add nowdays photos from cites, villages, towns other places from former East Prussia.
- note former, ethnic and current city, village, place name, current state.
- don't talk a lot about policy, just try to say historical facts.


I hope, together we will make intresting thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
This day I have, my own photos from current Lithuania and Poland.

Firstly I add photos from Lithuania, former Memelland

Towns:
Klaipėda/Memel
Pagėgiai/Pogegen
Šilutė/Heydekrug
Kuršių nerija (Curonian spit (en.)/Kurishe nehrung

Memelland area was part of ethnic Lithuania, till 1923, population was about:
50% lithuanians
50% germans

Photos I will add a little bit later
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)

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I think the introduction to this thread is more than basic. IMO, putting down the rich and diverse history of this region in 2-3 sentences is misleading or even shameful.

But I agree to wait and see what else the OP will come up with.
 

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I think the introduction to this thread is more than basic. IMO, putting down the rich and diverse history of this region in 2-3 sentences is misleading or even shameful.

But I agree to wait and see what else the OP will come up with.
I'd very much like to see more of his pictures myself.

Moreover, I'd like to see them all in the same thread as opposed to being scattered all over the place.

Your mileage may vary.
 

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Can some moderator please close this thread! Poland didn't get mentioned enough by the OP. :lol:

PS: can the moderator please also close all threads about Silesia or Wroclaw until Germans, the Magdeburg Law, Bohemia, the Prussian Reforms, the Weimar Republic, the dialect "Gebirgsschlesisch" and the Schaffgotsch family get mentioned?!
I also have serious doubts about the Krakow threads who don't value the German citizenry in the late Middle Ages and the influence of Austrians enough. :nuts:
 

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^^

Good points one and all :laugh:
^^

Not really, because all threads about pre-war Polish Lwow, Wilno, Grodno, etc. are closed. BTW, I don't mind to read about German Breslau or Stettin (probably the best time for these cities).

PS. Austrians were responsible for stagnation of economic life in Krakow and decline of the city, so nothing to be thankful for.
 

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^^

Not really, because all threads about pre-war Polish Lwow, Wilno, Grodno, etc. are closed.
That's not to say that they should have been however.


BTW, I don't mind to read about German Breslau or Stettin
Why then the problem with German Memel or Königsberg?

You're aware, are you not, that the OP's map didn't even include the Gdańsk area.

Except for the Masurian lake district, most of the area shown on his map had an overwhelming German majority extending back to at least the late 1300's and up until 1945-46.


The OP described this area as follows:

Former rich region in eastern side of Baltic sea.
Created on former balts and slavonics lands became one of the most beautiful part of Germany.
That sounds pretty accurate to me.


.
 

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Can some moderator please close this thread! Poland didn't get mentioned enough by the OP. :lol:
Excuse me, the suggestion of closing this thread came out from, let's say, the radical faction of Polish users.

Let the guy continue his valuable work, but vigilant eyes will be around. :lol:

Not really, because all threads about pre-war Polish Lwow, Wilno, Grodno, etc. are closed.
Were they closed indeed? On what basis (if you can recall)?
 

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Were they closed indeed? On what basis (if you can recall)?
Trolling (?), I have no idea. You tell me.

Why then the problem with German Memel or Königsberg?

It's more complicated than you think. Prussians were not German, but Baltic tribes (the same as Lithuanians).

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_people

Masurians and Warmiaks were not German, but West Slavic Poles.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masurians

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmiak

The combination of Poles, Lithuanians, Prussians and Germans (Teutonic Knights came to these lands after Polish princes invitation in 13th century) inhabited East Prussia.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Crusade

During nationalism wave in 19th-20th century incorrect term German Prussia became common.

---------------------------------------------

Old Prussian language:
Thawe nuson kas tu asse Andangon,
Swintits wirst twais Emmens;
Pergeis twais Laeims;
Twais Quaits audasseisin na Semmey, key Andangon.

Lithuanian language:
Tėve mūsų, kuris esi dangusu,
Švenskis vardas tavo;
Ateik karalystė tavo;
Būki tavo valia, kaip danguje, teip ir ant žemės.

Masurian language (different text, explaining Polish-German relations :) ):
Modre oczkie mamy,
na sie spoglondamy.
A co kom’ do tego
Kiedy sie Koehamy,

Kashubian language (bonus):
Òjcze nasz, jaczi jes w niebie,
niech sã swiãcy Twòje miono;
niech przińdze Twòje królestwò;
niech mdze Twòja wòlô jakno w niebie tak téż na zemi.

Do you find it similar to German language?
 

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Why then the problem with German Memel or Königsberg?

It's more complicated than you think. Prussians were not German, but Baltic tribes (the same as Lithuanians).
Agreed and Depeched said as much in his original post when he spoke of German Prussia being "created on former balts and slavonics lands".

I was under the impression that the Teutonic Knights either killed or ran off most the indigenous Prussians (and assimilated the rest) in fairly short order however.

In any case, the cities of Königsberg and Memel were (if not founded by) built, as history today remembers them, by the Teutonic Knights and subsequent German settlers.


RS_UK-PL said:
Masurians were not German, but West Slavic Poles.
Agreed. Moreover I acknowledged as much in my previous post :)

Interesting enough, the majority of them voted to remain attached to East Prussia in a post WWI plebiscite however. Probably for religious reasons.


RS_UK-PL said:
The combination of Poles, Lithuanians, Prussians and Germans (who came to these lands after 13th century) inhabited East Prussia.
But again, the Germans outnumbered the others most everywhere except the Masurian lake district and the rural areas of Memelland.

Keep in mind, we're discussing East Prussia, not West Prussia, Poznan or Upper Silesia, all of which were primarily (and in some cases overwhelmingly) Polish in character and composition at all times.


RS_UK-PL said:
During nationalism wave in 19th-20th century incorrect term German Prussia became common.
In large part because after 1870 Prussia was a legally constituted part of Bismarck's Germany.

Your point about nationalism poisoning German/Polish relations is well taken however.

I have read that prior to such Poles, Germans, Lithuanians and others residing in what we now regard as Prussia saw themselves as Prussians first and Poles, Germans or whatever second.

The enduring mutual animosity only coming later.

Oddly enough, had the Germans in the West managed to unify in 1848 (without Prussian participation) this comradery, as it were, might well have endured for a bit... possibly even until the present.

Imagine that ;)


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