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FSU team, Smart Growth America look for west Pasco spark



Lisa Buie, Times Staff Writer
Saturday, August 2, 2014 8:50pm


NEW PORT RICHEY — Pasco County needs one success story.

If the county can complete just one project to improve its blighted west side, county planners believe, it could serve as the spark that ultimately restores vitality to an area known for rundown homes, vacant stores and unsightly signs cluttering the U.S. 19.

"We plan to show residents we mean what we say when we put these plans in place," said senior planner Melanie Kendrick, one of the architects of a redevelopment plan for the area written a couple of years ago.

The sweeping plan, which last year won an award from the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council, has yet to be put into action. A $200,000 proposal to move that along got cut out of this year's county budget because of flat revenues. To prevent further stalling, county planners hired Florida State University graduate students to gather demographic data. The county also was one of 18 communities to win a federal grant to get help from Smart Growth America, a nonprofit agency that encourages walkable, urban communities.

Last week, the two groups offered presentations to Pasco leaders. Smart Growth representatives talked about what attracts young adults to communities.

Unlike baby boomers, whose moves are driven by job opportunities, millennials tend to choose areas based on lifestyle amenities before looking for work. They also depend less on cars and would rather use public transit or a car service, unlike those who came of age in the mid- to late-20th century.

Continued here...
http://www.tampabay.com/news/localg...ca-look-for-west-pasco-spark/2191237#comments
 

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West Pasco was the worst developed part of northern Tampa Bay.

It's a wasteland of signs, small strip malls and un-deedrestricted communities where almost anything goes.

Why anyone would have any desire to live there is beyond me.

Tarpon Springs south is where things start to improve.
 

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West Pasco was the worst developed part of northern Tampa Bay.

It's a wasteland of signs, small strip malls and un-deedrestricted communities where almost anything goes.

Why anyone would have any desire to live there is beyond me.

Tarpon Springs south is where things start to improve.
I'd love to see this comment next to some of the rebuttals you've given Jason re: tighter planning controls. :cheers:
 

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Exactly. Western Pasco was developed for the auto-centric folks. Sprawled out neighborhoods, roads without sidewalks, retail scattered anywhere, and parking lots upon parking lots. West Pasco is the best example of how NOT to develop a county or region. The lack of planning killed any momentum New Port Richey and other towns. Pasco'a economic impact would be stronger if they would had focus their growth in and around New Port Richey instead of spreading it out down the whole west side of the county. Now it will cost the county more to fix and demolish the centuries of mistakes and bad planning.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
W Pasco provides great insight into what happens a generation later, when the only 'plan' for growth is to serve one single mode of transport and one single lifestyle at the direct expense of all others. This kind of auto-centric, segregated-use sprawl, far removed from urban amenities and employment centers usually doesn't even create enough of a tax base to pay for inevitable infrastructure replacement costs, let alone to establish the many amenities that sustain a neighborhood over time, but which developers omitted during initial development because they were allowed to. (parks, sidewalks, good zoning to encourage steady economic growth, etc)

I think it's telling that there is almost zero groundswell in W Pasco to fix the mistakes of the past too. Everyone has moved on to the latest greenfield development hotspots in Wesley Chapel and Wiregrass. There's nothing in the county budget for W Pasco, and almost zero community groundswell for change. As the article points out, the only people presently working to improve W Pasco's fate are FSU grad students working for school credit, and an outside group being paid by the feds.

This is why it's vital to get development right the first time. Once bad development ruins a place, it's almost always too cost prohibitive to fix it. It will just keep aging and stagnating, until the place has finally decayed to the point that various tax incentives can kick in. And by that point, a neighborhood has become a crime infested ghetto.

We are already seeing this play out in Hillsborough too, where shit planning has created ghettos-in-waiting in the old inner suburbs, like parts of Town n Country, N Tampa, Brandon, and Carrollwood. And just like Pasco, Hillsborough made a plan to fix the mistakes of the past, and for the most part no one cares (Numerous "urban town centers" were designated throughout the county. Not a single one of them has come to fruition). Development buzz has moved on to new greenfields in eastern and southern Hillsborough, and to legitimate urban redevelopment opportunities in the city, adjacent to urban amenities and employment centers... And of course Pinellas County has been grappling with this issue for years already, with a number of places devolving into real shitholes, while the one legitimate urban center in the county (DT St Pete) continues to grow steadily and become ever-more vibrant and prosperous.
 

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I'd love to see this comment next to some of the rebuttals you've given Jason re: tighter planning controls. :cheers:
My comments were related to a properties already within a developed area and building something much more dense than what the existing property had.

Areas of concern of mine such as DT St Pete, Clearwater, Tampa and Ybor are very old and built over more than a generation. Pasco is a good example of something. Too many bluehairs not caring what goes on the the mobile home or condo next door and then you have your not so urban 'foke' making tire swings in the yard.....leads to this.

A property owner or developer has should have the right to build what they want as long as it is within the letter of the law, zoning requirements and permitting.


NOHO Flats is a good example, its no where near satisfactory to some here based on the parking and so called walk-ability but in the end it is a huge improvement to the area.

The problem as mentioned for for the Pasco area was it was built over time starting with retirees and then the US 19 corridor expanding.


The entire area stinks, from the cost all the way to Wiregrass, I'd be happy to exclude Pasco north from the Tampa Bay forum topics.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
^The problem is, the same need to get the plan and execution right the first time, doubly applies to urban development and redevelopment. Not only will poorly executed urban intensification kill adjacent complimentary development (the highly coveted 'snowball effect'), but poorly executed urban intensification will cost the community even more to replace a generation later than shitty sprawl will.


NOHO Flats is a good example, its no where near satisfactory to some here based on the parking and so called walk-ability but in the end it is a huge improvement to the area.
NoHo Flats is a good example of how to kill an urban neighborhood before it ever even starts. Imagine that the entire NoHo neighborhood is redeveloped with projects exactly like NoHo Flats. What do you have when its built out? A denser version of W Pasco.
 

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My comments were related to a properties already within a developed area and building something much more dense than what the existing property had.

Areas of concern of mine such as DT St Pete, Clearwater, Tampa and Ybor are very old and built over more than a generation. Pasco is a good example of something. Too many bluehairs not caring what goes on the the mobile home or condo next door and then you have your not so urban 'foke' making tire swings in the yard.....leads to this.

A property owner or developer has should have the right to build what they want as long as it is within the letter of the law, zoning requirements and permitting.


NOHO Flats is a good example, its no where near satisfactory to some here based on the parking and so called walk-ability but in the end it is a huge improvement to the area.

The problem as mentioned for for the Pasco area was it was built over time starting with retirees and then the US 19 corridor expanding.


The entire area stinks, from the cost all the way to Wiregrass, I'd be happy to exclude Pasco north from the Tampa Bay forum topics.
The funny thing is that 80% of Pinellas is just like West Pasco. Exclude the beaches and its even higher. West Pasco reflects the growth patterns of Pinellas while Central and East Pasco now reflect the growth patterns of Hillsborough (New Tampa)/Palm Harbor. Again, excluding the beach, Clearwater looks almost identical to West Pasco.

It is funny how snobby you are with Pasco (not that Pasco isn't just a sprawling mess). You almost sound like the liberal elite you hate.
 

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^The problem is, the same need to get the plan and execution right the first time, doubly applies to urban development and redevelopment. Not only will poorly executed urban intensification kill adjacent complimentary development (the highly coveted 'snowball effect'), but poorly executed urban intensification will cost the community even more to replace a generation later than shitty sprawl will.



NoHo Flats is a good example of how to kill an urban neighborhood before it ever even starts. Imagine that the entire NoHo neighborhood is redeveloped with projects exactly like NoHo Flats. What do you have when its built out? A denser version of W Pasco.
I don't imagine the entire neighborhood will develop just like NoHo flats, that is the problem here. In fact, many of the existing single family homes will most likely remain for some time, hopefully reconditioned to a better state than most are in today. It isn't all or nothing. NoHo added a great density to this area as well as a character that symbolizes older Florida to induce a nice feel to the area.

Pasco is nothing like this at all. IMO we need solid residential areas that don't necessarily have much retail in their immediate areas. These residents will support the already high amount of commercial that exists, not to mention the new businesses that will come in the future.

Sure, NoHo Flats could have built a garage and been taller even but the fact remains the area was dead and Vintage Lofts was left for many years on it's own. There is a lot of development needs in the area and NoHo gave it a kick to get things going and raised property values.
 

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The funny thing is that 80% of Pinellas is just like West Pasco. Exclude the beaches and its even higher. West Pasco reflects the growth patterns of Pinellas while Central and East Pasco now reflect the growth patterns of Hillsborough (New Tampa)/Palm Harbor. Again, excluding the beach, Clearwater looks almost identical to West Pasco.

It is funny how snobby you are with Pasco (not that Pasco isn't just a sprawling mess). You almost sound like the liberal elite you hate.
I have mentioned numerous times how much I dislike central Pinellas, I am not unclear about that at all. The fact is that Pinellas has some great old towns / cities with some value along with the beaches.

You don't see any of that in Pasco and besides, my criticism about Pasco doesn't mean I think something needs to be done with it, I just don't go there. Likewise, I avoid passing through Pinellas Park, your going to have areas like this all over the country.

Liberals want to control and change everything, Conservatives live and let live. Just the fact I dislike something, doesn't mean I don't accept it. These areas happened long ago, it's water under the bridge as far as I am concerned.
 
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