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Future Hull - coping with climate change

2683 Views 9 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  MattN
Although I should probably have been cleaning somewhere or something, I instead attended a conference today at the Guildhall with Arc, who had invited some of Europe's top experts on coping with water.
There was a Dutch architect, a Dutch landscape engineer and a Italian from Venice.

Learnt a few interesting things. A local public realm architect was asking the Dutch engineer what Hull can do to cope via building flood defences etc as a lot can't be done here compared to Holland, as we're built on clay and Holland is built on sand. The Dutch engineer said... "no, no, no, no... The Netherlands is built on clay. You can do it with clay". The local public realm architect said, "well you need a chat with a bloke over there from the council then, he says the majority of things the Dutch use, we can't because of the clay!"

Turns out underground carparks etc have been turned down in Hull in the past because of this!

I went for a walk with the Dutch landscape engineer... he said he likes the Humber. He went and took a pic of William of Oranje on his horse, said Hull marina has a really nice feel and a great atmosphere and that it is a shame it seems soo under-used, as it could be great (he said it reminded him of somewhere, I'm sure he said Stockholm and also somewhere in Denmark and a bit like a place in Norway). What surprised me most was how much he liked the area near Victoria Pier (area infront of Cerutti's etc..) He said it has HUGE potential to be developed because of the space, size and location.

...and a bit for pug; I was talking to him about LEPs and asked if Hull ended up with a Humber-wide LEP, could it end up making a Southern Hull, making a city region...

He said not many north/south cross-river cities work as there are huge problems. He said it doesn't work in Rotterdam as with all north/south cross-river cities, the south side for some reason always becomes deprived and a social hinderance/neglect. He said all Rotterdam's problems are contained in the Southern side and those on the North side tend to ridicule and bad mouth the run-down southern side.

He said the only place a north/south cross-river city works is Budapest, as both sides already had equal social stature.

I also got him to teach me a bit of Dutch and I had to laugh... he must have been talking to you Legolamb; he said he'd been to Flamborough head in North Hull! :lol: ...well, if Beverley is a Hull suburb, why not! haha.

Also, remember the study done on Hull and Portsmouth flooding and turning Hull into 'the venice of the North'? well I got a copy of it today.

I'll post up the pics from it when I get chance, but for now... check the ones I've uploaded to Twitter;

http://twitpic.com/2v71gr

http://twitpic.com/2v72rj

very interesting look at things.
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...and a bit for pug; I was talking to him about LEPs and asked if Hull ended up with a Humber-wide LEP, could it end up making a Southern Hull, making a city region...

He said not many north/south cross-river cities work as there are huge problems. He said it doesn't work in Rotterdam as with all north/south cross-river cities, the south side for some reason always becomes deprived and a social hinderance/neglect. He said all Rotterdam's problems are contained in the Southern side and those on the North side tend to ridicule and bad mouth the run-down southern side.
A humber wide LEP would not create a south Hull type setup, it is more of an economic reason why it should be persued, though it is not unreasonable to expect that some suburbs would spread to the south bank should the tolls be scrapped. People are already noticing the cheap cost of land on the south bank (due to bridge tolls) and are building houses and travelling to Hull for work. If that was to increase, then there would be better public transport due to demand and a greater link up between the towns on the south bank and Hull.

I would have asked for more examples than just Rotterdam about why city regions dont work if they are seperated by a river, and from what you say it sounds like a whimsicle remark based upon Rotterdams experience, in fact most successful cities are built on rivers with well worked out port infrastructure. New York anyone? London? Oresund which actually transcends both Denmark and Sweden and is connected by a much longer bridge and tunnel than the Humber Bridge, resulting in a highly successful and growing economic region.

As for the rest of the post, very interesting. At one time they were saying that Hull has no tall buildings due to the ground being too soft, and that they would just sink. Hmm. Got to remember though, Holland has been very good at spending money on infrastructure, and the whole country (i think) is below sea level, so they have universal expertise. Unfortunately it doesnt quite work like that in the UK, remember the Ennerdale tunnel?
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Oresund which actually transcends both Denmark and Sweden and is connected by a much longer bridge and tunnel than the Humber Bridge, resulting in a highly successful and growing economic region.
The two cities Copenhagen & Malmo were thriving cities before the link was made. The bridge has just made them stronger.
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Yes perhaps not the best example, and using New York and London were obviously extremes. The fact that the Oresund bridge/tunnel is so long and still attracts 20,000 commuters a day is nothing to be sniffed at. Simple fact is that the cost of a bridge crossing still effectively cuts the catchment areas in half, not to mention the cost of sending anything bigger than 3.5tonne over (something not really discussed on here) and you can see why business in the region are so against any rises.
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As for the rest of the post, very interesting. At one time they were saying that Hull has no tall buildings due to the ground being too soft, and that they would just sink. Hmm. Got to remember though, Holland has been very good at spending money on infrastructure, and the whole country (i think) is below sea level, so they have universal expertise. Unfortunately it doesnt quite work like that in the UK, remember the Ennerdale tunnel?
Holland ranges from 10 metres above sea level to about 7 metres below sea level. This has not stopped people building expensive projects on flood plains though, as the Dutch system of ***** is trusted by all.

The whole conference was about how Britain can look to other European countries, especially Holland, when it comes to living with water. They said the Dutch accept water and like water, they do not shy away from it. Where-as in Britain, most buildings are built facing away from water (High St a perfect historic example - all the fronts of the buildings are away from water).

They believe at this moment in time, if a mass flood occured in Britain, British people would just move inland, where-as in Holland, people would just live with the water and build floating houses.

I recommend the exhibition at Arc at the moment. Some great examples of floating houses.
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Yes perhaps not the best example, and using New York and London were obviously extremes. The fact that the Oresund bridge/tunnel is so long and still attracts 20,000 commuters a day is nothing to be sniffed at. Simple fact is that the cost of a bridge crossing still effectively cuts the catchment areas in half, not to mention the cost of sending anything bigger than 3.5tonne over (something not really discussed on here) and you can see why business in the region are so against any rises.
It is a fantastic bridge no doubt about that, the rail link is superb too, I got from Copenhagen to Stockholm in about 5 hours on the X2000 train for about £60. And that was first class too.
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(he said it reminded him of somewhere, I'm sure he said Stockholm and also somewhere in Denmark and a bit like a place in Norway).
I would love to hear his reasoning behind Stockholm.
It is a fantastic bridge no doubt about that, the rail link is superb too, I got from Copenhagen to Stockholm in about 5 hours on the X2000 train for about £60. And that was first class too.
Unfortunately its a part of Europe i have never been to, but one which im sure i will visit before long! Particularly if Humberside airport ever gets the Copenhagen route back that it lost in the early 90's!

I think more attention should have been put on multi-modal transport when the Humber bridge was conceived in its final form. A railway across the Humber would have opened up the potential for a link to Lincoln and a quicker route to London, but also the airport too!
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I would love to hear his reasoning behind Stockholm.
I'm only about 80% on Stockholm... I couldn't really hear him too much. There was 4 of us, so will ask others on Tuesday.

He talked about the marina having a lot of potential, saying it had an atmosphere similar to other nice marina's he'd been to including (add name of place he said). Said others had been rejuvenated in a similar way.
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Regarding all this 'Holland' elevation stuff, depends what we mean by Holland. Presumably in saying 'the whole country' pug you were in fact referring to the Netherlands. Holland is a region containing many of the large and important/mercantile places near the coast and has presumably been similarly important throughout history, hence why we come to use it to refer to the whole country. Certainly most if not all of Holland is indeed at or below sea level. However I'm not sure where Dazzar is referring to, the highest point in Holland might be 10 metres (not sure) but in the Netherlands it's 322 metres where it meets Belgium and Germany. Yes, hills can be found in Limburg and in the glacial moraines in the centre of the country.

Never really thought about the turning away from water stuff before but it is true that a lot of places in Britain back onto water, whereas the Dutch often build streets with water on one side and buildings facing it on the other. Not sure if it would stretch as far as floating houses though. Some houses surrounded by water (possibly sometimes built out of it, not sure) do exist now, but in the event of mass flooding I think people might find the isolation a bit of a drag. Also, in another sense it wouldn't be that isolated given that the most densely populated part of the country is mostly at or below sea level, so it might be difficult to sustain large cities and incredible population density without any infrastructure other than floodwater. I'm sure some people might do it though.
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