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certains mots étrangers
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Of course you would diminish the anguish and trauma those children went through. Your lack of empathy is laid bare if you think that is acceptable.
Certainly seems over the top to me. Poor kids, clearly upsetting.

To be fair, the commentator implies that it’s racially driven, and perhaps it is but there’s no objective evidence for that in that specific video. I wouldn’t be keen on drawing the same conclusion without further information.
 

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Certainly seems over the top to me. Poor kids, clearly upsetting.

To be fair, the commentator implies that it’s racially driven, and perhaps it is but there’s no objective evidence for that in that specific video. I wouldn’t be keen on drawing the same conclusion without further information.
How do you reckon those kids will perceive it? Isn't that what counts? I reckon a lot of us hold unconscious beliefs and biases and occasionally it does not hurt us to try and stand in someone else's shoes. How about we take the commentator's personal views out of it and look at just the footage and how stuff like this ingrains the divisions.
 

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How do you reckon those kids will perceive it? Isn't that what counts? I reckon a lot of us hold unconscious beliefs and biases and occasionally it does not hurt us to try and stand in someone else's shoes. How about we take the commentator's personal views out of it and look at just the footage and how stuff like this ingrains the divisions.
Maybe it is racism. But, in the absence of objective evidence, should we just assume that these officers were acting with racial motivation or bias, conscious or unconscious, based on the footage, without further analysis? Is that the approach that you truely believe will reverse ingrained divisions? I’d say that you’re a participant if that’s the case.

The kids I’m sure will perceive the event negatively because it looks to me like over-the-top actions by the police. In addition, If they’ve been fed a diet of group-think or had negative racial experiences in the past then yes I agree, they’re more likely to default to a perception of racism. But that doesn’t mean that it IS racially motivated.

Personally, I suspect that their training is probably well below par if they can’t get a handle on the nuences of individual situations like that, especially involving kids in broad daylight. But who knows.
 

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A lot of Afro American people think this is the police's default normal practice if your black. Danukoz thinks there is nothing wrong with what happened and it was ok to traumatise children. Whether you or I make assumptions or not on their motivation the police conduct was unacceptable in my view and I think this happens far too often to minorities. I welcome further analysis and I ask you what will reverse ingrained divisions?
 

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Stop making stuff up Andy. Nowhere did I say that. I said they could have removed the kids from the situation, but perhaps they had better judgment not to in this case, as it may have inflamed the situation. They seemed to be trying to calm the distressed kid down. Maybe they could have handled it better. Maybe it just was an unfortunate situation which caught a one sided view of it. You don’t know. I don’t know. You can’t compare it to Australia as America has different gun laws. Cops have arguably a much harder job and much higher risk.
 

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And I stand by it. They look like they were trying to calm the kid down, not actively traumatise them.

Danukoz thinks [its] ok to traumatise children.
What u said. Which is not the same and just you making up lies. Stop lying Andy.
 

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A lot of Afro American people think this is the police's default normal practice if your black. Danukoz thinks there is nothing wrong with what happened and it was ok to traumatise children. Whether you or I make assumptions or not on their motivation the police conduct was unacceptable in my view and I think this happens far too often to minorities. I welcome further analysis and I ask you what will reverse ingrained divisions?
It’s a helpful start I think to define racism in the first place. My view is that racism (or more accurately discrimination based on race that causes some sort of harm) is a manifestation of inherent biases that we all have to varying degrees, that basically favours those that are more like us as individuals, over those who are different.

Of course that’s an oversimplification but that’s fundamentally the core of it. Bias is ingrained biologically in all societies and it systemically favours those of the majority who share cultural and economic interests. That is what a society is by definition - evolved through necessity of survival. Archaic of course, but useful to know.

But it seems that the above doesn’t get discussed openly and honestly with the aim of reducing its effects, and instead the discourse is gripped by politics, from both sides.

The other thing is that it seems fear plays a factor in the amplification of bias, encouraging behaviours designed to protect those closest to you. With in-equality on the increase, I imagine that fear will increase in the populace as more people stack up at the bottom.

Reversing divisions? Drop the politics and group-think from the conversation - arguably the most toxic element of the equation. Its really getting out of hand. Allow capitalism to flourish but evolve by providing more robust safety nets in terms of wealth and health. Allow everyone the chance for success through equal education access thereby hopefully stemming the increased widening of inequality.
 

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No-one on here has said there is.



Nothings bad about that. But why does it need to be brought up every single time there is a sniff of commentary regarding racism. We know!



You are correct in your assumption. And in fact, I don't think there would be very many at all who would even try to argue they are!





No one is saying you should endorse them.




Not what I said at all. I said that if you only, and continually talk about how bad the BLM organisation is, and have nothing else to add to the discussion of racism, then you have a problem. I'm not saying, and have never said, that if you criticise BLM you don't want to discuss racism.





Again,. not what I said at all. I have never said that and please stop assuming I have said that. I've explained why your assumption is wrong above.
I've come to the conclusion that we speak completely different versions of English. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #950
Ok, let's put it this way.

The people on this thread who have, on multiple occasions, discussed the significant negatives of the BLM organisation, why are they also the posters who either never talk about how to improve the situation with regard to racism in Australia, the USA etc. or, more likely, flat out disagree that systemic and/or significant racism even exists in the first place?


Correlation? Or is it that those who believe racism isn't a major issue are far more likely to use the known issues with the BLM organisation as a smokescreen for their other beliefs and hope that it shuts down the conversation on racism and opens up the conversation about the BLM organisation.

See where my problem is now? It's not that I don't believe the BLM organisation has big issues, it's that I am willing to discuss multiple issues at once and am hoping those who repetitively discredit the BLM organisation would do the same.
 

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The people on this thread who have, on multiple occasions, discussed the significant negatives of the BLM organisation, why are they also the posters who either never talk about how to improve the situation with regard to racism in Australia, the USA etc. or, more likely, flat out disagree that systemic and/or significant racism even exists in the first place?
In the case of Australia I do flat out disagree on the existence of systemic racism.

This country goes out of its way to give enormous opportunities to non-white people.
 

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In the case of Australia I do flat out disagree on the existence of systemic racism.

This country goes out of its way to give enormous opportunities to non-white people.
Yeah they get special treatment like shorter life expectancy, higher rates of infant mortality, poorer health, lower levels of education and employment and higher incarceration rates. Seems to me this country goes out of its way to give far more opportunities to rich white people.
 

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Ok, let's put it this way.

The people on this thread who have, on multiple occasions, discussed the significant negatives of the BLM organisation, why are they also the posters who either never talk about how to improve the situation with regard to racism in Australia, the USA etc. or, more likely, flat out disagree that systemic and/or significant racism even exists in the first place?


Correlation? Or is it that those who believe racism isn't a major issue are far more likely to use the known issues with the BLM organisation as a smokescreen for their other beliefs and hope that it shuts down the conversation on racism and opens up the conversation about the BLM organisation.

See where my problem is now? It's not that I don't believe the BLM organisation has big issues, it's that I am willing to discuss multiple issues at once and am hoping those who repetitively discredit the BLM organisation would do the same.
It's simple from my POV - BLM is not the organization that the layperson thinks. It really does care little for young black american men and more about a wider extreme "Leftist" agenda with blatant Marxism driving it. If you're all for Marxism, let's do it; let's argue about the virtues of that.

If you insist to "correlate" this with the issue of systemic racism, particularly in the US, and demand I adhere to an alternative to BLM that also supports your view that racism is systemic, ie, that the two, BLM and systemic racism are interdependent, then we are at an impasse.

Must I also concur with you (BLM all aside) that racism is systemic in the US (and AU)? Is this what you demand from me? You are not going to get it. I think it is more of a class issue that correlates with Black america along with social breakdowns. BLM do not give a rats bout the social and class breakdowns but in my humble opinion? That's where the medicine needs to be applied.

BLM protesters were literally on the streets of Chicago this week justifying the looting of businesses as akin to reparations. They also said it's all good because the insurance companies will foot the bill anyway. I'm sorry, that is insane thinking.
 

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Yeah they get special treatment like shorter life expectancy, higher rates of infant mortality, poorer health, lower levels of education and employment and higher incarceration rates. Seems to me this country goes out of its way to give far more opportunities to rich white people.
And you honestly think that's due to systemic racism? Nothing to do with class and social issues at all. You make the problem seem so simple.
 

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And you honestly think that's due to systemic racism? Nothing to do with class and social issue s at all. You make the problem seem so simple.
I imagine it has to do with a number of issues and the problem is not simple and have never said otherwise. At least you admit there is a problem so that is a starting point perhaps it would be better if you explained that to some here who think there isn't one instead of worrying what I say.
 

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Worrying what you say? When you say FUD that clearly puts the WHOLE issue simplistically on your idea of systemic racism? I'm just saying it's not that simple. You're right in the reply though, I think, quote, "I imagine it has to do with a number of issues and the problem is not simple..." So, in effect you agree with me but then comment I should not worry about what you say.

In speaking of BLM and their BS. These Portland protesters pull a guy from his car, tell him to kneel and then smash him anyway whilst his distraught passenger looks on. Some people in the thread claim and counter-claim he was driving fast but I get the feeling that was far from the case:

 

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Discussion Starter #957
And you honestly think that's due to systemic racism? Nothing to do with class and social issues at all. You make the problem seem so simple.
It has almost everything to do with class and social issues.

However please explain how class and social issues always seem to affect the same racial groups of not for systemic racism?

That's exactly what it is. The system is worse for people of certain races.
 

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Discussion Starter #958
But overall, we get it. BLM is a bad organisation.

But the issue here is the systemic racism that causes situations where people like Floyd and others are more likely to die.




But that's all ok, because BLM is a Marxist organisation, right?
 

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But Floyd’s death had nothing to do with systemic racism. (And that’s not to deny that systemic racism exists, or to deny that racism was involved.)
 

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Discussion Starter #960
Really? How do you know that? The fact that he was more likely to grow up in poverty and in crime surely means he is more likely to die as a result of being arrested, no?
 
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