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GJIROKASTRA

169863 Views 851 Replies 106 Participants Last post by  Edi_H







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Čoveče, Sarajka, gde nalaziš ove albanske varoši u zabitima, leba ti? Ajde da predstavimo Visoko ili Bileću... oni bi bili interesantniji od ove da prostiš vukojebine... :) pa pola mesta zauzima fudbalski sation majku mu...!
During him Albania was very closed country, and Yugoslavia was opened , and Tito in Yu decided to allow albanians to come in large number to Kosovo , and forbid Serbs to come back to Kosovo after WW2... Although Albanians were already slight majority in some arias, after that they became bigger majority in the whole Kosovo, and today as a result, there is a problem about Kosovo... that's very sad for me, but very god for Albanians, but that's history, what can we do now?!... nothing... well enough politics...
Maksym said:
Interesting. I just knew a few Albanians in Canada who liked him, so that is why I asked.
This is out of the theme. Kind of provocative. Overly political. Trying to keep my cool here, somebody come here quickly.
it is rather provocative, I don't want to ahve a fight, that's just wwhat i thaught when i saw the topic about Enver Hodza, and i said that... if someone starts some stupid fights, i won't reply...
Be sure that if it starts, then you started it. The problem with Kosovo is that it is equally important, historically, to both Albania and Serbia. When the borders were drawn, it had immediate economical consequences in north Albania because the natural markets of the malsors were destroyed. Still today, north Albanians, the ghegs, suffer the consequences.

What you say about how Albanian went to Kosovo and started a fast multiplication process in order to take it over is not true. The Albanian population in Kosovo is very specific in terms of costums, traditions, dialect which are not the same to other regions in Albania. They differ a lot from the tosks and also to the ghegs creating a new dimmension within the Albanian ethnos.

What Tito did was not to bring Albanians from Albania to Kosovo, but to create such policies to make Albanians from Kosovo flee away to other European countries wether that was good or bad. the few Albanians the came to Yougoslavia, came on study purposes and stayed in Belgrade. ;)

pobesnelizmaj said:
it is rather provocative, I don't want to ahve a fight, that's just wwhat i thaught when i saw the topic about Enver Hodza, and i said that... if someone starts some stupid fights, i won't reply...
AltinD, is your relative the one who has the paintings of Gjirokastra all over Google. Just wandering, they look nice.
Also, take it nice on all the anti-PBDNJ propaganda in here. First of all, if you talk about Gjirokastra the way you do, you have also talked about how Nano is Greek, then you are just giving excuses to them to claim Gjirokastra.
Read below...

I do not understand where you come up with Gjirokastra being a Greek colony. Look at the music of the region, look at the architecture, look at the souvenir shops in Gjirokastra, look at the people, look at how many speak Greek in the city, there is nothing enforcing your opinion. Also, consider the number of albanian politicians and artists that have their origins from this city: Aleksader Meksi, Nano, Hoxha, Fino, Kadare, Gjebrea to name a few. And what's that about a couple hundred of Albanians showing them how to respect our flag? A very pacifist stance indeed. By the way, the consulate is there because Gjirokastra is the city Albanians mostly use to get to Greece and because of Dropulli. It is not there to be viewed as a threat.
I don't see it as threat at all ;). Nevertheless everytime I go there are people who desperately try to speak some kind of weird Greek, in order to get some nasty money that the Greek government gives in a form of a pension to the always growing Greek minority there. The funny thing is that scientifically, the ones responsable for this growth, are supposed to be people over 60 going a rapid process of sexual reproduction...If I do not take it that orthdoxy is being used for anti Albanian propaganda in the south. I don't question GJR as a place where Albanian is spoken, but it is always becoming more and more a second language, and I am witnessing it. When I visit Saranda, I stop by in GJR, and there is always a new bar where you to learn Greek in order to be able to order a drink. The same goes for Saranda. I am pretty sure these guys are Albanian, because I was there a year ago, too. They spoke a very clear Tosk dialect, no they suprisingly forgotten it ;). Korca is claimed by Greeks, too, neverhteless the people there, despite all the cultural influences as a consequence of being a bordering city, will never tell you they are greeks nor will you will hear people speak Greek in public places because mos tof people learn Greek from Greek music and it all ends there.
The only thing that was achieved in Korca was that the church was able to start a series of misunderstandings between the orthodox and muslim community. However, they have constantly failed to make the orthodox community think they were Greeks.

By the way, PBDNJ is a party about human rights and if you just label them as the tool of Greek nationalists then they might as well become that. It is not like we have waited with open arms for a party advocating human rights.
As for the education thing, one prefers the University of Tirana, however Gjirokastra is the smallest city in Albania having a university. It is also the center of many cultural events including the Albanian folk festival. Also, arguing about whether saranda, Gjirokstara, Dibra, or Shkodra is more inmportant, well it is kind of...
Nopbody speaks Albanian in their electoral campaign. All the electoral messages are given in Greek. They hosted Nicolas Cage. They started the Himara incident during last elections where my flag was burnt and Albanians were called terrorists, while none ever burnt an hellenic flag in Albania. All of the people who were invovled in the incident were contracted by PBDNJ for their electoral campaign. None of them were born or even had family relatives in Albania.
I have been on UN conferences advocating for human rights, wether they were children rights, annviersary conferences for ICPD, anniversary conferences and declarations within the Beijing decalaration, wether they were ILO conferences on child/night labour...that's how I get myself a living. I have met Albanians throuth the way. None of them was from PBDNJ, nor does PBNJ have established any kind of relationship with human rights organizations in Albania. They have never advocated for women rights, children rights, ILO conventions on night work and child labour, juvenile imprisonment UN conventions, domestic violence...and the list goes on and on...They have only advocated for the rights of the Greek minority in Albania...and actually advocating for what they already have. They never advocate for Roma minority social inclusion. Now a few years ago they put a Greek flag in Himara and added the words "Albanians, welcome to spend to your vacation in Greek land!" (Miresevini, pushues Shqiptare ne token Greke). They were forced by other representatives in the parliament to take that away immediately, they did, so they are still safe ;). So boy, I hardly believe this "human right political party" thing.
And for GJR in relation to other cities, at least Korca, Durres, Shkodra, Vlora precede it in the cultural, historical and economical perspective and there are probably other cities that do the same. I still like GJR, it has nice houses. And yes it is home to some famous people down here, almost all of them controversial figures, almost all related to the Greek nationalists propaganda for Northern Epirus in some way. Funny the coincidence, I did not know they were all from GJR. ;)

:cheers:
We are totally overrating Gjirokastra.
Gjirokastra is a small town in the south where Enver Hoxha , Eqerem Cabej and Ismail Kadare come from.
That's it.
I dont know anything else about this town besides the old houses and brick layered streets.
It is a town of little significance in Albania.
If i am correct i believe Gjirokastra rank 15th overall in Population in the country , so there you have it.
The only reason this town has a university is because the commies who are now in government pushed for it to have one when in reality other cities of bigger importance deserved it.
Gjirokastra has little significance from an economic point of view as well.
It has no seacoast , it is not known to be an agricultural land , it has no major factories ....etc,etc.
Add on top of that the fact that this town has greek minority living in it thus making it really undesirable.
Reality is that Gjirokastra is a small town in the South.
We are not talking about the economic and demographic importance of Gjirokastra (at least not me). Whaty I'm pointing out is that Gjirokastra has a cultural and traditional architectural importance, therefore should be protected and preserved.

Is one of the few pearls of our Albanian herritage, along with Berat, something that we should be proud to show to the rest of the world, unfortunatelly we can't do that sucessfully on their current conditions.

If we Albanians want to forget that city, then don't blame our south neighbours for trying to get hold of it. If that happen, it will be OUR fault and not theirs.
Totally agree about its architectire values

AltinD said:
We are not talking about the economic and demographic importance of Gjirokastra (at least not me). Whaty I'm pointing out is that Gjirokastra has a cultural and traditional architectural importance, therefore should be protected and preserved.
Is one of the few pearls of our Albanian herritage, along with Berat, something that we should be proud to show to the rest of the world, unfortunatelly we can't do that sucessfully on their current conditions.
If there are a few and the list had to be short, GJR would definitely NOT be in my list.

If we Albanians want to forget that city, then don't blame our south neighbours for trying to get hold of it. If that happen, it will be OUR fault and not theirs.
Totally disagree. We don't forget it. They forget where they belong because their soul is cheap. They lack a strong national and cultural identity. We all know that if you declare you are part of the Greek minority you can easily get a VISA otherwise you get treated like you are some kind of sick animal trying to enter a human habitat by the Greek embassy. Some people find it easier to declare so, some people find it shamefull. I belong to the second group. Most of people in the very south are more and more grouping to the first which is funny and tragic in the same time. They can decide whatever they want though. They can, if they want, leave the cities and probably someone more patriot will go there and build something decent, someone whose soul is not for sale.
I don't blame Greeks for that. They are jsut doing their job ;)
yeah right :eek:kay:
IlliricumSacrum said:
Be sure that if it starts, then you started it. The problem with Kosovo is that it is equally important, historically, to both Albania and Serbia. When the borders were drawn, it had immediate economical consequences in north Albania because the natural markets of the malsors were destroyed. Still today, north Albanians, the ghegs, suffer the consequences.

What you say about how Albanian went to Kosovo and started a fast multiplication process in order to take it over is not true. The Albanian population in Kosovo is very specific in terms of costums, traditions, dialect which are not the same to other regions in Albania. They differ a lot from the tosks and also to the ghegs creating a new dimmension within the Albanian ethnos.

What Tito did was not to bring Albanians from Albania to Kosovo, but to create such policies to make Albanians from Kosovo flee away to other European countries wether that was good or bad. the few Albanians the came to Yougoslavia, came on study purposes and stayed in Belgrade. ;)


:cheers:
how could albanians leave and go to kosovo. the borders were closed. because of our dictator people weren't allowed to enter or leave the country ever. This wasn't changed until 1991. If the borders had been open before why would albanians want to imigrate to yugoslavia when they could have gone to greece or italy.
I give up my defense of PBDNj in light of new evidence, although I think a human rights party is a brilliant idea. Too bad that they aren't that.

"almost all related to the Greek nationalists propaganda for Northern Epirus in some way. Funny the coincidence, I did not know they were all from GJR."
Take it easy here, even if you argue that Nano is too much pro-Greek, I think you go to far when you also put in people like Meksi (prime minister when
Albania joined the Islamic Organization), Hoxha and Kadare. Provide some evidence to support that position. And what about Cerciz Topulli, is he too a Greek ultranationalist?

About the bars thing, I was in Gjirokastra two years ago and did not notice something like that in the city itself. I have a hard time believing it. I will visit it again this summer and see. When I was there II remember that they were many souvenir shops with Albanian stuff, and couldn't remember many clubs/bars being named after Greeks, instead I remember places being named Argjiro and similar names. In Saranda there was more Greek being spoken but that was because many Albanian kids who fled young had come back and forgotten or spoke better in Greek.

About those who decide to become Greek so they can get a visa. Well, i dislike them as much as you do, however you must recognize its a natural reaction. When you live in Tirana, speak English, middle class, and you are young its easy to be ashamed of them, however many of this people are poorer than you think and have kids to support. Even if they are not that poor, I wouldn't go as far as to say they are selling their souls. I do not think that your nation makes up your soul, it is just too bad that these people are somewhat incomplete since they are ahamed of a part of who they are. My problem with them is not in the dislike of Albania as much as in the dislike of themselves as Albanian.

Also, I do not have statistics, however I believe that not many people from the city of GHJ actually have attempted and gotten visas in this way. Do not confuse the city with the area around it which includes Dropulli. Just if you look at the names Ghj doesn't seem like very much influenced by the Greeks. Neighbordhood names: Hasmurati, Palorto, Dunavati, Varoshe, and a mosque in the middle of the town. None of the famous people I mentioned from Ghj.have a Greek-sounding name: Fatos, Enver, Ismail, Ardit, Cerciz, Aleksander? Their representative in parliament is named Makbule Ceco, the challenger was Roland Bejko. Again, sorry with the details, I am just trying to show the city for what it is in this issue as much as possible.

By the way, I still think that you underestiamte Ghj value. I also do not believe that it has much economic significance, but historically, politically, and culturally, it has a tremendous significance. Its population now is low, but you must remember that Ghj is one of the few cities that has not grown in population since 1970. Then, when Albanian cities were much smaller it was not bad. It does organize the folklorik festival, it does have a university, it has famous people, it looks like a museum, what else is left for a small town?
I wrote quite a long answer but it does not worth discussing more on the matter.


GJ is a must visit in Albania, because it is a very special touristic attraction.

Other statements are not of any relevance to the thread.
Yes, but the Albanian Goverment should be more involved in GJR, to be a present force overthere, to show to the people that they care about them. The fact that the Greek influence is very strong, is one more reason for the goverment NOT to forget about the place. We can't afford to loose them, we should remind them what they really are: ALBANIANS.
Thank you Sarajka for the photos

Gjirokastra is truly an amazing town.

Some costumes from Gjirokastra

An Albanian woman in costume from Gjirokastra (South Albania)


South Albania/Gjirokastra


Women's Costumes
Dropull - South Albania




I don't really consider Gjirokastra to be a big city but like a smaller town, a nice small town. I like the homes on the hills and everything. Very nice indeed. Good post.
of course. its a small town but with lots of history....
StormShadow said:
I don't really consider Gjirokastra to be a big city but like a smaller town, a nice small town. I like the homes on the hills and everything. Very nice indeed. Good post.
Just in case you guys didn't hear...

Gjirokastra is now a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

So I'm not the only one who likes it, biaaatches :D
That's very true Mila
It's the second place in Albania after Berat who gets this title and i think it makes a whole lot of sense
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