SkyscraperCity banner
1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On the London Underground most interchanges are cumbersome and long because the lines were built independently and later joined together, for example Central to Bakerloo at Oxford Circus. More recent lines such as the DLR at Bank and the Victoria line have provided good cross-platform interchange at several stations (Finsbury Park, Highbury & Islington, Euston, Oxford Circus, Stockwell), whereas the Jubilee line - and Crossrail to come - seem to ignore other lines.

The best interchanges I have seen have been in Berlin where two lines cross each other, both have a station at that point and there's one flight of steps between them! Are there other examples of well-designed interchanges? How do they affect the cost of building a metro? Can the benefits be quantified?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,070 Posts
On the train from Schipol to Amsterdam, some of the suburban stations the train doesn't stop at have great 90 degree interchanges with light rail below, and the metro alongside. It looks very futuristic at night!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,286 Posts
Poplar seems to me the best interchange station in London. Two island platforms and a well thought out track arrangement reduces the distance between the trains to the width of the platform. Finchley Road is similar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,059 Posts
Poplar seems to me the best interchange station in London. Two island platforms and a well thought out track arrangement reduces the distance between the trains to the width of the platform. Finchley Road is similar.
I just went and looked at Poplar on gmaps and yes, that's very neat :) Eastbound trains from two sides of one platform, Westbound on the other. One route in, two routes out, but no going up and down stairs to change routes. Needs a flying junction to work, of course - easier with DLR than heavy rail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,414 Posts
On the London Underground most interchanges are cumbersome and long because the lines were built independently and later joined together, for example Central to Bakerloo at Oxford Circus. More recent lines such as the DLR at Bank and the Victoria line have provided good cross-platform interchange at several stations (Finsbury Park, Highbury & Islington, Euston, Oxford Circus, Stockwell), whereas the Jubilee line - and Crossrail to come - seem to ignore other lines.

The best interchanges I have seen have been in Berlin where two lines cross each other, both have a station at that point and there's one flight of steps between them! Are there other examples of well-designed interchanges? How do they affect the cost of building a metro? Can the benefits be quantified?
I don't think Oxford Circus between the Bakerloo/Victoria to Central is particularly bad. Two small flights of stairs and a corridor... There are far worse examples on the network, such as Bakerloo-Northern at Charing Cross, Central to Circle and District at Bank/Monument. On a whole interchanges on LU are not particularly long, comparing them to relatively small networks such as Berlin's is simply unfair.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,492 Posts
I don't think Oxford Circus between the Bakerloo/Victoria to Central is particularly bad. Two small flights of stairs and a corridor... There are far worse examples on the network, such as Bakerloo-Northern at Charing Cross, Central to Circle and District at Bank/Monument. On a whole interchanges on LU are not particularly long, comparing them to relatively small networks such as Berlin's is simply unfair.
I've always wondered why TfL haven't renamed Monument to Bank? Or Bank to Monument? It seems pointlessly confusing to have two names for the same station (or station complex).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,070 Posts
They're barely the same station though. Plenty of closer ones could have had travelators built, but these did.

If we're going to actual rail - Tamworth seems to be convenient in terms of lines crossing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,273 Posts
I've always wondered why TfL haven't renamed Monument to Bank? Or Bank to Monument? It seems pointlessly confusing to have two names for the same station (or station complex).
Because one is located at Monument and the other is located at Bank.

Most of the Victoria line was built so 'educated' connections were made as easy as possible which facilitated positive movements of crowds when moving lines in the same direction, eg. Finsbury Park southbound, Oxford Circus Bakerloo/Victoria southbound. It's all quite cleverly thought out if you use the routes regularly.

Mile End is a good example to, a simple cross platform interchange. I believe Mile End is the only underground cross platform interchange between a deep level line and a subsurface on the network.

Barking has an interesting cross platform system as well, however the District line requires large over/underpasses each side of the station to cross the c2c platforms. West Ham c2c opening in 1999 didn't go for that idea and so it's a bit of a chore changing between the two there. One interesting interchange is the new Limehouse c2c/DLR which is being built to link the high level platforms - it's only connecting the westbound c2c platform to the eastbound DLR platform, a strange decision until you pass through in the morning and see the masses of commuters departing Limehouse to take the DLR trip back in the opposite direction on the DLR to Canary Wharf.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,335 Posts
Canada Water Jubilee / East London Line is simple with one crossing the other 90 degrees below the other. In general the Jubilee Line extension stations sit well, think Westminster, Canning Town...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,273 Posts
The only trouble with Canada Water is the one escalator down from the northbound East London line to the Jubilee line. Obviously not a problem at the moment, what with it being closed, but I hope they rectify it when the Overground opens as it will be used by more people.

Westminster is okay, but mainly only for the view. Still quite a chore to get up two flights of escalators, however I'm completely fascinated at how there are two routes to the Jubilee line coiling round each other like DNA, one for people going down and one for people going up, and it's not until you notice how they never meet that you realise how amazing that station is in engineering terms.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,286 Posts
I thought it was obvious. Bigger networks have bigger interchanges which will therefore have longer walks.
No, it's not obvious. Bigger city might have stations with a greater number of interchanging passengers (I'm not even convinced that this is true as bigger system have or should have more stations and therefore more interchange stations). This, however, rather requires an efficient station design. But it certainly doesn't explain a bad one.

Beijing and Shanghai are supposed to have a metro system at least as big as London relatively soon. We'll then find out whether long walk ways are a inevitable necessity of large metro systems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,070 Posts
Well the Tube wasn't built as one united system, but as with the railways above, competitive.

Also, it has to follow roads in many older cases, as people wouldn't allow tunnelling below their property, which is why the Bakerloo takes such a windy route through Central London.

So history and heritage is why. Not to mention a mass of sewers, pipes, secrets, postal railway, and other centuries old goings on below the surface - and less of a smash and grab attitude to development (sadly in some cases).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
364 Posts
Shanghai had very very long walks from the moment it opened - Line 1 to Line 2 at Peoples Sq. involves a huge curved walkway about 400 meters long... I tried to find a picture, can't, but the lines cross in a V layout, in one direction the interchange is very short (at the cross of the V) but in the other you walk between the distent ends of the platforms).

At least that's an interchange though, at Line 3 interchanges you have to leave the ticket area and pay again.

I prefer the vic to the jubilee as crossplatform makes life so much easier, but the jubilee is pretty well equiped too, giant stations requre longer walks...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,947 Posts
Platform length is probably an important factor, like the example above two long platforms side by side require little walking distance, when they come in at different angles can be a huge walk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,414 Posts
No, it's not obvious. Bigger city might have stations with a greater number of interchanging passengers (I'm not even convinced that this is true as bigger system have or should have more stations and therefore more interchange stations). This, however, rather requires an efficient station design. But it certainly doesn't explain a bad one.
If there are, for example, six lines going through one station then there is more chance of one interchange route from one of those six lines to another to be a problem. This is demonstrated in ChrisH's original post; Oxford Circus has an interchange between the Bakerloo, Central and Victoria lines. He simply focused on the longest interchange possible in the station (between the Bakerloo and Central lines) instead of one of the shortest (between the Bakerloo and Victoria) which itself is cross-platform. Fair enough, you could argue that if the routes all crossed each other at the exact same point in a multiple-line interchange station that would be an "efficient station design", but unfortunately we live in the real world.

Beijing and Shanghai are supposed to have a metro system at least as big as London relatively soon. We'll then find out whether long walk ways are a inevitable necessity of large metro systems.
Doesn't look like it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Railway_Station_(Shanghai_Metro)

The transfer from Line 1 to Line 3/Line 4 is actually quite long. Both metro stations are located on the different sides of the train station with a long tunnel connecting both. Halfway along the transfer tunnel there is a branch that goes directly into the train station. Walking from one metro station to the other takes between 10 and 15 minutes.
10-15 minutes is far longer than the longest LU interchanges.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,273 Posts
Green Park I think was messed up mainly because of the Jubilee extension. The really long stretch between the Jubilee and Picadilly (I call it the wormhole) was built around 2001 I think as a relief route because before you had to go up to the ticket hall and back down to the Jubilee line, a little used route before the extension because obviously no-one really did that change (who would go one further stop to Charing Cross ...?). With the extension of course more people were making the change and they built the tunnel. But yes, it is quite a distance, and very annoying when you have wandering tourists not knowing where to go.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top