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I will be writing to all the Aldermen. I think we all need to put pressure on them. I will not stand for this behavior.. Something is obviously fishy & I think some deals were done under the table.
Thank you for writing titletown! I did as well. I had to go back and re-read some of the quotes by the council and they are embarrassing. There is a level of professional courtesy that you need to extend to others-especially ones who WANT to do something special for your city.

And what happened to moving on from turning our backs to the River? Because the Clarion certainly cannot offer river views!!! Maybe it is just the day but after all of the positive news as of late this un-professional remarks by our council has just left a really bad taste in my mouth and make me feel like we have taken a step back. You really would think Zima was still around. I just hope that there can be some real open dialogue between the sides and that the best decision can be made for the city of Green Bay. Does anyone on here know any of the involved parties and can shed some light at the very least if cooler or more sound minds are involved or what their thoughts are? I wonder what Jeff Mirkes or Rob Strong think?
 

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KI Convention Center



Updated Betsch Associates rendering from a year ago showing the KI Convention
Center expansion, outlined in orange. Via WBAY. Below, Kenneth Betsch of Betsch
Associates at the RDA meeting today. Press-Gazette photo.


Betsch Associates of Greenville, SC, provided a design update on the KI Convention Center expansion today (Tuesday) for the RDA meeting. Speaking was Kenneth Betsch, managing principal for the company. Some rough notes:

• Plan calls for extending KI over N. Adams Street and the Clarion parking lot and demolishing the existing one-story meeting-room wing of the Clarion. I'm not sure, but that may include the hotel's The River Room restaurant.

• Working “hand in glove” with the Hyatt, as it would operate the expanded KI.

• There would be some improvements to existing meeting rooms on the northeast side of KI closer to Elm Street.

• The main use of the expansion would be more ballroom meeting space (24,000 sf) that could be subdivided into four units.

• (Corrected). Including meeting-room space in the Hyatt area, the current KI has about 45,000 sf of meeting-room space. The expansion would bring that to about 75,000 sf of meeting space. The entire convention center, when completed, will be 145,000 square feet.

• There would be a rotunda to the west that would match the existing rotunda on the east at the corner of Main and N. Adams streets.

• Mainly black-and-white plans, elevations and sketches were shown.

• The expansion would have the same brick, details and cornice of the existing KI, ”so when this thing is done, it will look like it was meant to be, all time,” says Betsch.

• Sounds like from here on, plans are to make monthly updates to the city/RDA.

• The expanded area (one story, on the second floor) will be about 180 feet north to south, 300+ feet east to west, connecting from the existing KI to whatever hotel ends up at the Clarion site.

• There will be a 14’6” clearance over N. Adams Street, which would remain in use to provide access to the Wisconsin Public Service Corp., etc. The extension would also extend over what’s now the Clarion parking area to continue to allow parking there.

• For the future, it would be “way too expensive” to add a floor if more space were needed, but there could be some options for expanding horizontally.

• Rob Strong: By agreement, KI construction has to start by the end of the year. There may not be above-ground construction under way until next year, but work on footings or the like would be under way by Dec. 31.

 

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I didn't find the council members to be unprofessional or discourteous yesterday. This is happening fast, and they have to make tough decisions soon. They asked some tough questions that need to be asked. That doesn't mean I agree with everything they said, and I do think there's a need for a bit more confidence about the downtown, but that's different than being unprofessional.

I'd also disagree with Tower's characterization of Wiezbiskie as hostile. He's clearly against this (I don't think there's enough information for him to be so strongly against this), and he's not afraid to say what he thinks, but I don't recall him insulting the developers or anything. He's kind of an excitable guy and that came across. Obviously reasonable people can disagree on his demeanor.

I've seen Zima attack people during meetings. This was nothing like that. I think being skeptical is good, and asking tough questions is good, and that's the bulk of what I saw. Again, I don't think they are asking the right questions, and I'm not sure they are looking at this the way I'd like for them to, and they may need to be more open to pursuing larger scale development, but I wasn't embarrassed by them or put off by what they said or how they acted. Perhaps "better than Zima" is a low bar, but that's how I see things.
 

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I just want to highlight some items from the agenda for Wednesday's I&S meeting.
http://greenbaywi.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/IS_Agenda_7_24_13.htm:
11. Request by The Sigma Group to install temporary soil borings and groundwater monitoring wells in City right-of-way in the vicinity of South Washington Street and Doty Street.

Anybody aware of any proposed projects down in this area? - No.

14. Request by New Leaf Market for a planning option for Parcels 9-46 and 9-47, (907 and 903 Main Street).

Interesting here because there are two more parcels owned by the city directly adjacent to these that are already completed parking lots. My response: There are four parcels involved in the proposed New Leaf site. I don’t know how the store would align on the parcels eventually or what areas would be used for parking.

16. Request by Green Bay Neighborhood Leadership Council to install a sculpture in City-owned right-of-way between Whitney Park and Main Street.

Anybody know what this is all about? - Nope.

What do they consider Jackson Square or are they referring to a square/plaza on the west side of downtown? (kind of like the desire for a grocery store on the east side of downtown?)
My guess is people are thinking of something a bit more centrally located on the downtown east side.

They also discussed during the meeting getting funding from an immigration program where a potential immigrant can invest a minimum of $500,000 and, so long as that creates at least 10 jobs, get a green card. This would theoretically bring in money from China and/or India. This isn't a new type of program, but what was telling was that Edgewater had no idea how that would apply to this project (I guess the development needs to be in designated regional zones, and most of WI isn't a designated zone yet, though the state has applied to be one, but the application is sitting in limbo somewhere... my head hurts...). So the developer and Greg Flisram had a very reasonable conversation about this, but it's clear Edgewater had next to no idea what that funding meant for Green Bay, and given the timeline so far they probably haven't had time to know.
Glad you explained that. I didn't know what that program was all about, first I heard about it.

Here's the conversation that needs to happen: what are the benefits and problems with waiting three months. That's the only talk that matters. Can KI construction begin this year if the hotel isn't ready to start? What are the costs to the city owning the hotel for longer? What are the effects on the KI if it opens and the hotel isn't ready for some amount of time? These are all things that can be discussed rationally, and reasonable conclusions can be drawn. They don't seem to be things that are discussed very directly, though people hint around at them to bolster their speculation regarding the merits of this project. If the city can wait 3 months, then they can get real answers and start making a rational analysis of the proposal itself, based on actual data. If the city can't wait, then none of this matters.
Exactly right. Few in the media, I think, picked up on Edgewater's request for 90 days to put a detailed proposal together ("October 1" was mentioned). The question is, can the city give Edgewater until October 1 while prep work for the KI expansion continues?

That parking lot you have placed your Lombardiville in is not nearly big enough for everything you have. It for sure would not work. However I am thinking in a few years that most of your ideas will be developed but in a different area by the stadium.
Welcome to Green Bay Development News as a poster! If 54173 is a zip code, that would be Suamico.

I wonder what Jeff Mirkes or Rob Strong think?
Can't speak for them, for sure. But I think the establishment view at City Hall, including the mayor, is to renovate the Clarion and keep the Northland project on track.

I didn't find the council members to be unprofessional or discourteous yesterday. This is happening fast, and they have to make tough decisions soon. They asked some tough questions that need to be asked. That doesn't mean I agree with everything they said, and I do think there's a need for a bit more confidence about the downtown, but that's different than being unprofessional.

I'd also disagree with Tower's characterization of Wiezbiskie as hostile. He's clearly against this (I don't think there's enough information for him to be so strongly against this), and he's not afraid to say what he thinks, but I don't recall him insulting the developers or anything. He's kind of an excitable guy and that came across. Obviously reasonable people can disagree on his demeanor.

I've seen Zima attack people during meetings. This was nothing like that. I think being skeptical is good, and asking tough questions is good, and that's the bulk of what I saw. Again, I don't think they are asking the right questions, and I'm not sure they are looking at this the way I'd like for them to, and they may need to be more open to pursuing larger scale development, but I wasn't embarrassed by them or put off by what they said or how they acted. Perhaps "better than Zima" is a low bar, but that's how I see things.
I would really disagree on this. The message loud and clear to Edgewater coming from the Council members yesterday was 'you don't know what you're doing, you're expectations for the market are too high, this is all flash and dance, there's no substance here, this is doomed to fail.' Some Council members said the renderings were impressive (almost as a criticism, like the mayor's comments about "pretty pictures"), but at no point did anyone say thank you for coming to Green Bay, for considering investing $33.5 million in our downtown, for thinking that we can set our standards higher here. Ask pointed questions and look for answers, to be sure, but there's a way to do that. I sat in on some of the Vetter Denk Council sessions years ago, and it did remind me of that. His enthusiasm aside, Ald. Wiezbiskie at times yesterday was insulting and dismissive. I’m not sure the Edgewater Resources proposal would work, but give them a fair shot, hear them out and treat them professionally.
 

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A few odds and ends from yesterday.

• About 40 people, including the public, officials and the media, attended Monday’s Edgewater Resources presentation in a second-floor meeting room at City Hall.

• The architect for the Larsen Green project is Kirk Keller of Plunkett Raysich Architects of Madison. http://www.prarch.com/

• The rollout for Mike McCarthy Avenue is off to a slow start. Last night, the Green Bay Plan Commission tabled the matter for another month, after mostly negative comments from commission members (cost, no policy, timing, etc.), and the Village of Ashwaubenon delayed discussion for a month. The proposal is meeting some resistance in De Pere too. The Green Bay City Council still could take up the matter July 30. http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...et-name-hits-road-bumps-Green-Bay-Ashwaubenon

• Couple of notes on Ashland: The renaming in Green Bay if it goes through would be for the entire length of the street, NOT stopping at the north end at Dousman. And officials from the city to the Packers would prefer “Mike” in the name, as in Mike McCarthy Avenue. Another famous McCarthy name in Wisconsin is Joe McCarthy.
 

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FYI.

Four of the five City Council members who indicated in their questioning yesterday opposition to the Edgewater Resources proposal to develop the Clarion Hotel site were among the five council members last month who voted against postponing selling the Clarion to American Hospitality Management. The postponement was approved then 7-5.

Ald. Wiezbiskie, Kocha, Moore, Sladek and Danzinger voted against postponing the sale. All but Danzinger yesterday indicated opposition to Edgewater Resources. The fifth council member to indicate opposition yesterday, Ald. Brunette, had voted last month to postpone.

What this means is that discussion yesterday was dominated by anti-postponement council members. The vast majority of the seven council members who approved postponement of the Clarion sale last month, to hear out Edgewater, either did not attend or did not speak up at yesterday’s presentation.
 

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A few odds and ends from yesterday.

• Couple of notes on Ashland: The renaming in Green Bay if it goes through would be for the entire length of the street, NOT stopping at the north end at Dousman. And officials from the city to the Packers would prefer “Mike” in the name, as in Mike McCarthy Avenue. Another famous McCarthy name in Wisconsin is Joe McCarthy.
If it was or turns out to be a partial renaming of the street, I think W. Mason St. would be the most logical stopping point. Reasons being that it is mostly business south of Mason and mostly residential north of Mason. Plus there would be considerably less places that would need to change their address at that point as many buildings south of Mason adjoining Ashland have their addresses in the cross street, and mostly none on the east side of the road at that point because of the railroad track.
 

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KI Convention Center

Clarion Uncertainty Non-Issue for KI Convention Center Expansion

by Ben Krumholz
WLUK-TV
Tuesday 7-23-2013

City leaders are holding firm that a Main Street transformation near the Fox River should be complete by the spring of 2015. It includes expanding the KI Convention Center to connect to a redeveloped Clarion Hotel.

“We don't want to be short on hotel rooms when we open up,” said Rob Strong, Green Bay’s community development director. “We want to have enough rooms to handle the people coming down for the conferences.”

The architect for the KI project showed updated renderings to the city's Redevelopment Authority on Tuesday. The project would nearly double the convention center's current capacity of about 3,000 people.

“Even though the building can support 6,000 people, it will probably be rare occasions that you'd have a city-wide convention, but you could get it,” said Ken Betsch, the architect for the project.

Financing for the KI expansion is still being figured out, including what the project's budget will be. However city leaders say the project is on schedule and ground should be broken before the end of the year.

The same is hoped for the Clarion Hotel project, but city aldermen still need to decide between two options.

The options for it include a $6.7 million project with the hotel's current management firm, American Hospitality Management. The other option, with Edgewater Resources, would demolish the current building to make way for a new 16-story, four-star hotel.

The city owns the Clarion Hotel.

“We can accommodate the development much better if we know what it is than if we go ahead and build our piece and then have to bring something new to it, so the sooner we can get that resolved the better,” said Strong.

“We have enough flexibility built into our plan so either plan would work with it,” said Betsch.

The city council is expected to vote on a Clarion option next Tuesday.
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news...-non-issue-for-ki-convention-center-expansion
 

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KI Convention Center

RDA Moves KI Expansion Forward; Process
Started to Issue Bonds for Convention Center


by Richard Ryman
Green Bay Press-Gazette
Tuesday 7-23-2013 (published/online)

KI Convention Center expansion moved a step closer Tuesday, uncertainty over the Clarion Hotel notwithstanding.

The Redevelopment Authority approved a resolution to start the process of issuing bonds to pay for the $20 million-plus project. The city council will be asked to pass a similar resolution during its July 30 meeting.

“The clock is ticking,” said Harry Maier, RDA chairman. “We have to get going.”

Excess county hotel room taxes will pay for $12 million of the project. An agreement with Brown County requires the city to start work on the expansion before the end of the year.

Expansion plans envision connecting the existing convention center on Main Street to the Clarion Hotel, which the city owns but is planning to sell. City officials crafted a deal for the hotel’s management company, American Hospitality Management Inc., to buy the property for $2.7 million and to invest $4 million in upgrades. The deal was not approved by the city council because another group suggested a more ambitious plan.

Edgewater Resources LLC proposed a $30 million-plus 16-story downtown hotel tower. City officials have been discussing the project with them, but say they must have a development agreement in place in time to begin KI construction.

Architect Ken Betsch of Betsch Associates, Greenville, S.C., provided RDA members an overview of expansion plans. Betsch designed the convention center as well.

The new section will be above Adams Street and above the Clarion Hotel parking lot. It will have a 14-foot, 6-inch clearance over Adams Street, be about 180 feet north to south, and 320 feet east to west. It will add 30,000 square feet of meeting space, bringing the overall total meeting space to 75,000 square feet. The entire convention center, when completed, will be 145,000 square feet.

The project would eliminate the meeting room area of the Clarion and improve convention center meeting rooms that connect with Hyatt on Main. The east end of the expansion would overlook the Fox River.

Betsch said the addition would use the same design and materials as the existing convention center so they would blend.

John Mehan of Robert W. Baird & Co. said income from the bonds, which will be sold to investors to pay for the project, will be federally taxable and state tax-exempt. He is looking at a range of up to 30 years. He said he hopes to issue them before the end of the year.

“We will be constructing this building before the end of the year,” said Rob Strong, community development director. “We need the bonds to be issued before construction.”
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130723/GPG03/307230309/RDA-moves-KI-expansion-forward

Note: My KI square footage numbers posted earlier were incorrect. I've corrected them based on this report.
 

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I'm gone for a day and I'm a page behind just like that. Love the converstions and the new voices coming in. Welcome to all the new posters!

It certainly sounds like Edgewater was not greated kindly on Monday. Edgewater is asking a lot but I think they are doing the best they can to try to give the council and the public what they are looking for. I have two problems with how this is shaking out though; one, the city's requirement that the Clarion site be finished for the opening of the KI expansion, and two that the proposal from American Hospitality is sub par. Even if Edgewater scales their proposal back a bit they will still be making a huge improvement over what American Hospitality has put out there. This is one of the most important sites downtown and rushing into a decision isn't wise. I think the council members that are opposing this will be in very hot water come election time if they brush off a 33 million dollar investment into the downtown from a motivated developer. Momentum is way too high in downtown to settle for an renovation of a ugly, tired property.
 

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I have to bring up the quotes again posted by Tower and reposted by Chris King of the aldermen, are just BIZARRE. I understand Danillo that this project needs to be studied, but in general have things like this been said about/to prior projects? Said to Schreiber before they began reinterest in downtown? I mean seriously look at the top of page 497 the rerequotes summary by Chris King, those quotes are bizarre and embarrassing. Is it because Edgewater is headquartered in a different state? Minor criticisms were mentioned about the Metreau and the developer is not local. Schreiber is a local company, did anyone in the council criticize something about Schreiber? Its just weird, is this city government afraid of foreign business? Out of town business? Is it just THIS Clarion project that's suffering/suffered this situation because of its size? Is it like NightRider said a backroom deal with the original bidder? Could be but if so why didn't the plan just go right ahead, and ignore Edgewater's bid? This is just wow, WOW, weird.

Thanks for the original details Tower Park

Also, thanks for linking the contacts page to the aldermen NR, they should be contacted and informed of the lack of professionalism many have expressed. Yet there is a part of me that thinks emailing them won't work and that there should be some sort of emergency meeting arranged by uhhh, US, where we do the talking and they listen and we TELL them how to act. haha
 

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^^

• Ald. Moore about the proposed plans: “We’re going to tax our own taxpayers out of the downtown.” “It’s really impressive,” he says, “I just don’t know if it’s right for us.”
I find the phrasing on this odd. I think he's either trying to say this is too high-class to work here, or that it's using taxpayer backing to fund something most people here won't be able to use. I would argue that neither of those things are a problem, and that having a higher-end hotel is a good thing, but I've also heard that same question asked of every higher-end development that's come along. I disagree with the premise, but I don't find it unprofessional to ask the question. He then compliments the proposal (and I don't recall that coming across as sarcasm, other may disagree), and doubts it's right for us, which I don't know what he's basing that on, but if it's his opinion he's free to share that.

• Ald. Wiezbiskie: has “deep concerns” project is too elaborate. “You haven’t had the time to really study this.” We were set to go ahead with Clarion renovation, this is a “monkey wrench.” “I’m scared for you guys, I really am.” Too “grandiose,” set to fail.
I think Ald. Wiezbiskie was over the top. It's outright truth that they haven't had time to study this. I wouldn't characterize it as having been hostile, and I don't agree with the conclusions he's drawn, but his comments aren't dissimilar from what alderman Moore (no relation to me) said. Full disclosure: I volunteer on the DGBI/OMSI Physical Improvements Committee with Ald. Wiezbiskie. I really think he's a good guy, I know he wants to see the downtown grow, and he's really helped forward some improvements in the downtown. So while I think he's in too much of a rush to draw conclusions on this, my view of his attitude in his questions is biased by that fact that I happen to like the guy. So other may say hostile while I say merely over the top. Fair enough. At its base I don't find it to be anything that hasn't been asked before about other projects.

One thing Ald. Wiezbiskie said a few times is how this deviates from the plan they had for downtown. I think it's generally poor thinking to stick to a plan if circumstances significantly change, but since we're talking about what is or isn't the right way to treat a developer, I think the following needs to be remembered. Frantz-Hobart has an agreement to make millions of dollars of investment into the Hotel Northland. They agreed to that with a certain plan for the downtown in mind, and they've begun to invest resources to make their plan a reality. They are significantly farther along in this than Edgewater. Changing things now and adding 60 more high end rooms nearby does kind of pull the rug out from under the work they've done. At the very least they'd have to delay their project and reanalyze the market. So if we're looking at respecting developers and making the city a friendly place to do business, I think the actual actions this represents for Frantz-Hobart are more damaging than anything that's been said to Edgewater.

Look, I think Edgewater is trying to propose a good project, and I don't think they are trying to fool anyone. I think the Clarion site is the prime hotel site in Green Bay, should be maximized (whatever maximized turns out to be), and that plans for the Northland and the Edgwater proposal can be adjusted to make both successful. I want this to work. I have not heard any overriding reason that waiting three months is going to do a prohibitive amount of damage to anything. So I think the city should give Edgewater until early October to prove if their proposal can be turned into a viable plan or not. I really have some concerns about the proposal, particularly the condos and the funding, but I think the costs in waiting three months are low enough to justify getting better answers. I also happen to think that this is very complex, there are a lot of players involved, and people acting in good faith can reach different conclusions.
 

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Correction. I double-checked my notes just now and what Ald. Moore said was: "We're going to PRICE our own taxpayers out of the downtown." My mistake, inexcusable. I usually try to be careful and double-check things. I think Moore may have been talking about whether a new Edgewater Resources hotel would be affordable for the average person. Sorry.
 

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Correction. I double-checked my notes just now and what Ald. Moore said was: "We're going to PRICE our own taxpayers out of the downtown." My mistake, inexcusable. I usually try to be careful and double-check things. I think Moore may have been talking about whether a new Edgewater Resources hotel would be affordable for the average person. Sorry.
Thanks for the clarification. I already assumed this was his intention. What I don't understand is why this development is the one to question. There are so many other things the city has done to clean up downtown that have increased the cost of living in and using downtown. The clearing out of Port Plaza Towers (Northland Hotel), the increased police presence at bars and subsequent closing of many bars, and the proposed market rate apartments. None of those things have been done with concern about their affordability for the residents of Green Bay. I actually agree with Alderman Moore that we need to be concerned about the affordability, but like others have said, people who live in Green Bay don't stay in hotels here. Executives from Schreiber/Associated/etc. will stay at a 4 star hotel; Packers players, families, guests will stay or live at a 4 star hotel; the list goes on.

On top of all of that, the use of the riverfront is important. It should be the number one priority outside of the increase in housing downtown. Edgewater wants to use the river, no other proposal has even mentioned it. If there are going to be too many rooms, ask them to cut down on the quantity. But don't ignore other proposals; don't lie about timelines.
 

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BUILD IT

Correction. I double-checked my notes just now and what Ald. Moore said was: "We're going to PRICE our own taxpayers out of the downtown." My mistake, inexcusable. I usually try to be careful and double-check things. I think Moore may have been talking about whether a new Edgewater Resources hotel would be affordable for the average person. Sorry.
Evidently the Ald. Moore does not care to realize the tax base a hotel like this will generate. There is is no major hotel downtown. People with some bucks will at least show up for Packer games and are willing to stay at a first rate place downtown and spend more bucks around town. Green Bay there is nothing now. If the Edgewater goes up and the Northland remodeled like they say it will you'll have a great base for the Convention Center and bring bigger and more prestigious conventions. Otherwise with these attitudes I'm hearing just go and build a 5 story Econolodge downtown and be about as impressive as Marquette, Mi. I wonder how concerned the Aldermen are that so many executives and TV people stay in Appleton or Milwaukee when they have business in Green Bay, say like MNF.
 

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Hotel Northland



The Hotel Northland opened in 1924. Photo from the Neville Public Museum
of Brown County.


On Special Assignment: Will Teams Return to Northland?

by Robert Hornacek
WLUK-TV
Wednesday 7-24-2013

The Hotel Northland has a rich and deep history, especially when it comes to football.

"The Northland Hotel was the nerve center of Green Bay that weekend of any home game," said retired sportswriter Cliff Christl. He remembers the Northland well.

The hotel, which opened in 1924, played host to NFL teams when they came to play the Packers.

"Most visiting teams started to stay there and almost all of them did through the 60s and some still did right up until it closed in 1979," Christl said.

After the Northland closed, visiting teams stayed at various hotels in the area. In 1989, the Minnesota Vikings became the first team to stay at the Paper Valley in downtown Appleton .

General Manager Jay Schumerth says now, if there's Packers game, the visiting team usually stays at the Paper Valley.

"We don't take this for granted," Schumerth said. "We work hard for it every year."

Schumerth says NFL teams typically need at least 150 rooms plus five to eight meeting rooms. Even though the hotel is 30 minutes from Green Bay, he says the Paper Valley is an ideal spot for NFL teams.

"We have a dedicated wing of the hotel that we can essentially lock down and make inaccessible for anyone other than who belongs. There are not a lot of places that can do that," Schumerth said.

The Paper Valley could soon see some more competition for those NFL teams. A developer has plans to renovate the old Hotel Northland and restore it to its former glory. Part of the plan is to try to get visiting NFL teams back to Green Bay."

FOX 11 On Special Assignment asked Mike Frantz from Iowa-based development group Frantz-Hobart Community Investors if there is a real chance NFL teams could come back to the Northland.

He replied, "Yes. There's a real chance. I think it will be big enough. We certainly will have the amenities to accommodate them I think. It would be on the radar screen."

The company specializes in historic renovations and is still finalizing its plans for the Northland. City leaders, meanwhile, are optimistic the renovation will happen and visiting teams will once again stay in Green Bay.

"We think it'd be great to have the visiting teams stay downtown again," said Green Bay economic development director Greg Flisram.

"We'd love to see it happen," Flisram said. "Whether it's in the business plan and thinking of the development group, we know that it is. How hard are they going to make a run at that? We just don't know at this point."

Jay Schumerth at the Paper Valley says he would welcome the competition.

"It's just part of the game," Schumerth said. "At some point in time there will be another hotel that's built that is going to go after the business so we stay sharp. We do a great job and I don't see a reason why we wouldn't continue to capture the majority if not all of the visiting teams still."

Schumerth points to an award the NFL travel managers handed out in 2008, naming the Paper Valley the "Most Valuable Property" of the year.

There is also a business reason the teams stay in Appleton. Many hotels in Green Bay cater to fans, who typically pay higher rates and stay for two nights. NFL teams, meanwhile, usually pay lower rates and stay for just one night.

"It's good business for us," Schumerth said. "We're not in Green Bay where the demand is significantly higher where I know hotels can charge two night stays and rates higher than what the NFL wants to pay for their rooms."

"I don't know the hotel industry but I think maybe you'd do better off with a hotel full of Packer fans for a long weekend," Christ added.

Frantz says the decision will be based on more than just money.

"Because the finances might not work as well as if we had a fan base in there doesn't mean that the NFL is not desirous. It may not be the optimal from the financial perspective but it definitely would be desirous to have them downtown I think," Frantz said.

If the Northland project moves forward, work could begin in October. While some rooms would be ready for the 2014 football season, the hotel would most likely not be ready to host an NFL team until 2015.
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/on_assignment/osa-will-teams-return-to-northland (new video could be up late tonight)

see also: http://interactives.fox11online.com/photomojo/gallery/8379/ and http://www.hotelnorthlandgb.com/
 

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These comments..."this isn't Chicago", "too grandiose", etc... seem to be in response directly to the height. I would argue that if there were 2 proposals on the table right now that were 100 room, $15M, 6 story buildings (same net # of rooms and same $) that NONE of these comments would be made.

Edgewater us putting up their own money on this project, which is more than we can say for some past proposals. If they were reckless with their money they wouldn't still be in business.
 
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