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https://planningapps.sheffield.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=PH7G6JNYFSG00


As each of these are quite big developments and will probably overlap, should we have separate threads for each?
There's a debate to be had here potentially; it might be a case if the most prominent parts of 'Heart of the City 2' getting a thread, with smaller blocks kept to general thread.

We went years with individual St Paul's Place threads, then just kind of updated SPP3 on the general thread; terrible for my forum OCD but worked for us in practice I guess!

I would say either way we maybe hold off new threads until we get further down the line with individual blocks?
 

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I am pleased to see the long overdue redevelopment of the Pepperpot & Laycock Buildings, I do however have some niggling reservations of the merging of these buildings into quite large scale blocks behind

I accept that the buildings are currently in a state of disrepair, and that perhaps we should just be pleased that they are to be redeveloped in any way & not demolished, however I am concerned as to whether in future years we will regret the way in which these buildings were redeveloped.

There appears to be a recent trend to redevelop often attractive but not necessarily listed buildings by bolting a few extra floors on, either on top or immediately behind. Recent examples such as those on Haymarket and West Street spring to mind, invariably they devalue the original building. Whilst the HoTC proposals are no doubt of a higher standard they do still drastically change the existing buildings. I do wonder if we are over developing these blocks and if the additional apartments and offices could, or should have been accommodated elsewhere, such as above the Redgates redevelopment, or the Wellington Street area Etc.

It's perhaps too late, but I would also have liked to see the facade of the Athol Hotel and the Henry's Buildings retained and incorporated.

I really don't want to be negative about such positive plans, but I just don't want Sheffield to get it wrong again
 

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Welcome, The Real Deal - all opinions welcome! :)

And yours are not without merit. Larger new buildings that sit behind retained older buildings are often tricky to pull off well. They can look brilliant, they can be a disaster. Of course, in a big, busy city it is tough to maintain a clear-sky backdrop for every historical building and ultimately the market forces too dictate that the only way to save the smaller, older building is to build a bigger, newer one behind it. It is a shame though.

Nothing can be as bad as St Pauls Streaky Poo Tower sat behind the town hall clock tower as you come down Leopold Street though.



Coincidentally, the demolition plans on the application seem to suggest the 'cap' of the Pepper Pot itself is going to be demolished, so presumably then rebuilt.
 

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Nothing can be as bad as St Pauls Streaky Poo Tower sat behind the town hall clock tower as you come down Leopold Street though.
I actually really like that juxtoposition.


There appears to be a recent trend to redevelop often attractive but not necessarily listed buildings by bolting a few extra floors on, either on top or immediately behind. Recent examples such as those on Haymarket and West Street spring to mind, invariably they devalue the original building. Whilst the HoTC proposals are no doubt of a higher standard they do still drastically change the existing buildings. I do wonder if we are over developing these blocks and if the additional apartments and offices could, or should have been accommodated elsewhere, such as above the Redgates redevelopment, or the Wellington Street area Etc.

It's perhaps too late, but I would also have liked to see the facade of the Athol Hotel and the Henry's Buildings retained and incorporated.

Restoring and retaining existing buildings is an extremely costly affair, therefore a lot of developments need to provide as much profitable space as possible in order to justify the retention of old buildings. I don't agree that if theres an old building somewhere we shouldnt have a modern backdrop or larger buildings around it, it very much depends on the building. The location of this development is important, it is smack bang in the city centre and we should be providing a good amount of retail space and accomodation with a significant level of density here. I see this proposal as a good compromise, Im glad the existing buildings are staying and im glad weve got a decent sized addition.

I hate the Athol Hotel building, so I'm glad thats going. Not everything should be retained as it eats away at the success of the scheme
 

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I don't see this progressing without a pre-let given that it is predominantly offices - I would think it would be too risky for the Council. Could it be that someone like CMS is interested given their previous soundings about a potential move to the heart of the city or is it that the Council are working with or aiming to work with an investment partner?

It will be interesting to see.

Also, not sure if I have mentioned this but do you think there is any merit in the theory that the separate office space within Grosvenor House was built with a relocation of the central library in mind (before this idea was canned)? It seems to make sense to me given talk of it moving to HOTCII and the random inclusion of a relatively small area of additional office space within this building... Maybe it was just that this size of building worked on the plot or HSBC wanted some potential future expansion space.
 

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Restoring and retaining existing buildings is an extremely costly affair, therefore a lot of developments need to provide as much profitable space as possible in order to justify the retention of old buildings. I don't agree that if theres an old building somewhere we shouldnt have a modern backdrop or larger buildings around it, it very much depends on the building. The location of this development is important, it is smack bang in the city centre and we should be providing a good amount of retail space and accomodation with a significant level of density here. I see this proposal as a good compromise, Im glad the existing buildings are staying and im glad weve got a decent sized addition.

I hate the Athol Hotel building, so I'm glad thats going. Not everything should be retained as it eats away at the success of the scheme

As mentioned in my post, I'm not against this redevelopment & I am pleased that something is finally being done here, I just have some reservations & concerns about the general trend to redevelop historic buildings in a way that we may subsequently regret. I actually think that this appears a good quality development & I do accept that commercially the redevelopment has to work, or of course there will be no redevelopment.

There have been however many previous bad examples of redevelopments and demolitions that at the time appeared to be progress. You need only look at the roofline of the Yorkshire Bank building on Fargate, or the monstrosity that replaced the Gaumont, to see that opinions can & do change over time, but that irreversible changes or demolitions can't be rectified

I am very much for progress and modern buildings in the city centre, but also believe it is important to protect and retain our historic buildings for future generations
 

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I don't see this progressing without a pre-let given that it is predominantly offices - I would think it would be too risky for the Council.
Disagree, wasn't St Pauls 3 bankrolled by the council and haven't they just sold it for a profit?, happy to be corrected.
The Council certainly contributed but I think it was a relatively small amount. Not sure they will want to fund the whole project without a pre-let but I guess we’ll see what happens.

Fingers crossed it moves forward quickly.
 

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Demolition should start on the building between cross burgess street and charles street and also the henrys building sometime in april if all goes well.

Also a few have been visiting site showing interest in the retail units under the HSBC building.
 

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In the illustrations above I like the plan for pedestrianisation of Pinstone Street, presumably also to include Leopold St all the way back to Church St. It would connect all the shopping streets together nicely. I remember a few years ago this was raised on here as a possible objective.

Apart from buses it doesn't seem that busy a road these days, so is there any remote chance of this ever happening?
 

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Don't have time to download and upload the photos to here yet but just noticed the Laycock House building has had a planning application submitted this week.

Looks like they are really pushing on with these two buildings


"18/04257/RG3 | Alterations to Laycock House to provide 5x retail units to ground floor (Use Class A1) and 4x apartments above (C3), demolition of remaining buildings and erection of 7-storey building comprising retail/cafe/bar space (A1, A3, A4 and A5) at ground floor, offices (B1) and 52x apartments (C3) above and associated works | Site Of 68-82 Pinstone Street, 1-19 Charles Street, Laycock House - 14 Cross Burgess Street Sheffield S1 2HP"
 

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In the illustrations above I like the plan for pedestrianisation of Pinstone Street, presumably also to include Leopold St all the way back to Church St. It would connect all the shopping streets together nicely. I remember a few years ago this was raised on here as a possible objective.

Apart from buses it doesn't seem that busy a road these days, so is there any remote chance of this ever happening?
I don't think it is showing it as pedestrianised - artistic licence is just showing an idealised brief moment when there isn't a bus running down the visible part of the street. Most of Pinstone Street is hidden in that view, obscured by the eaves of the buildings; you can just make out some pink paving on tge far side of the street which I assume is raised platform for easier bus boarding.
 
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