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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I stumbled upon something quite alarming in the transit realm today, some probably already have known about this project going on in Detroit. But for those who don't already know, here's a snippet of a blog post that I'm writing on the matter.

For many years, the Tampa Bay region was among several mid-sized metropolitan regions that stood without meaningful passenger rail transport. By the late 2000s, that pool began to close as cities like Phoenix (AZ), Charlotte (NC), and Norfolk (VA) were building their own light rail lines. All three areas have had solid passenger rail plans on the books for years, despite repeated attempts to gain public support. Want more examples? Los Angeles (CA) with its subway, Las Vegas (NV) with its monorail (now in its 10th year of operation), and Orlando (FL) with the relatively new SunRail Commuter Rail Line. All of which have suffered some form of public criticism and/or financial trouble at some stage of their lives. We never said it was easy to implement passenger rail right?

Fast forward to almost 2015, and we're now seeing another major city pass us by...one city that many long-time Tampa Bay area residents would have never thought to see leaving us behind in the passenger rail void...practically by ourselves. Yes, you heard me right, we are officially on an island by ourselves, left to fend off Tea Party interests and other members of the anti-tax opposition with absolutely no solid plan in the books to get passenger rail transport off the ground. When it comes to cities similar to the size of Tampa, and metro regions like our own, at least one mode of passenger rail transport exists in all of these areas (either already operational, under construction, or "shovel ready" plans ready to be executed)...except Tampa, except the Tampa Bay area. One fellow transit supporter told me recently that amongst the transit chatter going around, one thing was clear, "Don't let Detroit pass us!"

Ooops! Too late!
And here it is, Detroit's new streetcar line, which broke ground a couple weeks ago. http://m-1rail.com/

How pitiful is this? Really? Even "Motor City" has left us in the dust and effectively on an island by ourselves! This is yet another reason why both Greenlight Pinellas and the 2016 Hillsborough referendum HAVE TO PASS!!!
 

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Detroit is a wasteland and full of government wasted tax dollars.

The place is in ruins.

Detroit is more like Chicago and more suited for rail and they have a plan.

Keep blaming the Tea Party or anti-tax supporters, they are only protecting us from waste.

Put a plan together that everyone can see and analyse, don't just say give us a load of money and we will find a way to waste it, I mean build rail for the sake of doing so.

Seriously, people aren't apposed to rail and even the tax for it, it is the total lack of planning, vision, implementation that the majority I have talked to are opposing. There is no plan and thus no reason to start asking for money, yet.

I myself support the idea of more transit but totally understand the average citizens concerns. I have yet to see anyone want to focus on the topic of how to build rail to solve problems. All I hear is whining about the Tea Party, that is not a plan.
 

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Put a plan together that everyone can see and analyse, don't just say give us a load of money and we will find a way to waste it, I mean build rail for the sake of doing so.
For those who still can't figure it out, this region isn't capable of such a feat.

It lacks the kind of people it takes to make it happen.


Seriously, people aren't apposed to rail and even the tax for it, it is the total lack of planning, vision, implementation that the majority I have talked to are opposing. There is no plan and thus no reason to start asking for money, yet.
We'll see if that statement sinks in.
 

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Seriously, people aren't apposed to rail and even the tax for it, it is the total lack of planning, vision, implementation that the majority I have talked to are opposing.
By that logic, they should oppose everything we have done during the last half century. The reason we are even discussing this is because of the lack of planning and vision.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
^^
Right, and that lack of planning and vision has greatly cost us, now so much to the point where blighted Detroit is even surpassing us in terms of having at least one meaningful passenger rail line. All we have is a P.O.S. heritage streetcar that goes nowhere.

If we can get our elected officials to focus in on modifying the streetcar we have, that alone would be great! Bring the sucker up to Polk St in DT, make the entire stretch double-tracked, lengthen existing stations, and bring in modern stock. When the CSX issues are hammered out, then we can branch it off towards Seminole Hts via the MTC and complete the Ybor loop.
 

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For those who still can't figure it out, this region isn't capable of such a feat.

It lacks the kind of people it takes to make it happen.
The people aren't the problem, the lack of rail has everything to do with how our city has grown.

Even in this forum there are debates about rail and among most an understanding of the complexity. To simply blame residents of our area for lack of support for rail is stupid....and you should avoid that.



We'll see if that statement sinks in.
Based on your reply here, I doubt that it will.
 

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By that logic, they should oppose everything we have done during the last half century. The reason we are even discussing this is because of the lack of planning and vision.
There is no one to blame for the lack of rail. No one every said we had to have rail or even need it.

At this point, yes, you need to put something together in order for it to happen, it isn't going to just appear one day. Further, name calling and pointing fingers is always a good second option......that seems to work, never.
 

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^^
Right, and that lack of planning and vision has greatly cost us, now so much to the point where blighted Detroit is even surpassing us in terms of having at least one meaningful passenger rail line. All we have is a P.O.S. heritage streetcar that goes nowhere.

If we can get our elected officials to focus in on modifying the streetcar we have, that alone would be great! Bring the sucker up to Polk St in DT, make the entire stretch double-tracked, lengthen existing stations, and bring in modern stock. When the CSX issues are hammered out, then we can branch it off towards Seminole Hts via the MTC and complete the Ybor loop.
I am sure the Tea Party led to Tampa Bays lack of rail, let's hear it already :nuts:

Seriously, Tampa isn't the big city people in this forum think it is, we are suburban sprawl. In the last few years we have seen some good growth and perhaps that will lead to rail. I just don't understand the complaining, whining, finger pointing and assumption that Tampa must have rail now or should have had it. Where is the plan? Who will it serve? What problems will it solve?
 

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I just don't understand the complaining, whining, finger pointing and assumption that Tampa must have rail now or should have had it. Where is the plan? Who will it serve? What problems will it solve?
People are living here and are paying taxes, and their needs are not being served. It's as simple as that.

The mistake that a lot of people make (like I did in the past) is thinking that this community is capable of changing, to satisfy their needs.

Only communities with people capable of change can themselves change. The Tampa bay area simply lacks the caliber of people required to compel its own change. And so long as the prevailing mindset is to continue to deny entire swaths of the population the things they value from the place they choose to live, it will remain that way.
 

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No, it has been repeatedly explained why people are "whining" as you so disrespectfully put it. You simply choose not to accept their reasons as valid, because you consistently choose to make decisions based on your own set of values, ideals and priorities in life, and no one else's.

People are living here and are paying taxes, and their needs are not being served. It's as simple as that.

And if this place won't provide what they value, then they'll take their money and their productivity somewhere else.

Just like they've already been doing for decades.
The only disrespect I see here is how you blame an entire city based on your desires for something that you feel entitled to have.

Who's needs aren't being met? This is a completely made up situation. The same people who pay the taxes you say aren't being served are those you so politely suggested are ideologues and too stupid to do what you think should be done. You mean those people right?
 

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The only disrespect I see here is how you blame an entire city based on your desires for something that you feel entitled to have.

Who's needs aren't being met? This is a completely made up situation.
:lol: Says the guy who summarily writes off the concerns of people so fed up they move, as being invented. Do you think such people didn't really move, or that they had no real reason to move, but did it anyways?


Btw, try doing some research on the people who leave this region and why they left.
 

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:lol: Says the guy who summarily writes off the concerns of people so fed up they move, as being invented. Do you think such people didn't really move, or that they had no real reason to move, but did it anyways?


Btw, try doing some research on the people who leave this region and why they left.

More people move to Tampa Bay than leave, who cares really. Tampa Bay is a great area and our cities have so much to offer.

Sure, I have made the point that if you want to enjoy better transit in 'your lifetime' that you would be better off moving to an area that provides those options already.

I have no desire to research why people may have moved, there are endless reasons for this but to make a case that they left for not having rail is absurd. First of all, no one was ever promised Tampa would have rail and if they all of a sudden decided that they were out of here because of the Tea Party or anti rail folks, than good riddance, those people are bat shit crazy if they moved for that reason.

You clearly have an agenda and are an ideologue by your own assertions.

1 : an impractical idealist : theorist

You do this everytime you suggest that rail is right and those against it are wrong. Despite the facts that there are many different reasons people oppose rail and many don't all share the same ideas why they don't support it.



2 : an often blindly partisan advocate or adherent of a particular ideology

You also are blindly partisan to your agenda, you don't engage or accept that facts that mass transit in Tampa may not be successful or beneficial in the end. You argue the idea of having rail while opponents have nothing on the table except an open hand by ideologues that just want to have rail without regards to usefulness at all.

I on the other hand have an open mind, I would support rail ( and have ) if there were some real plan. I am also objective and open to others points of view. I do not lump people together and berate them if they disagree and further understand there are as many ideas and opinions as there are people.

Last, I enjoy Tampa Bay and all it has to offer, why you stay here or even bother is beyond me. To argue about a specific project and then show such disdain for the entire region makes no sense.
 

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The only disrespect I see here
And when urged to look into the perspective of the folks who have left this area for what they felt were better economic opportunities, or a higher quality of life elsewhere...
More people move to Tampa Bay than leave, who cares really.
Like I said... Try reading your own post history some time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Sorry if I sound a bit groggy. But I just had gone back and forth against the Greenlight opposition for the nth time.

Detroit has made many economic mistakes, yes. There's no doubt about it. Transit-wise, there's been many mistakes made there too. It's just like LA and their subway.

However, seeing Detroit pass us with their streetcar makes our region officially isolated. Every other mid-size city now either has at least one passenger rail line in operation, under construction, or throughly planned out enough to where its basically "shovel ready" or near "shovel ready". Our area has, on the other hand, been left with nothing but mere chatter and vauge, fluid, early-stage plans for passenger rail that never materialize.
 

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to lighten it up, Detroit can claim a street car first, they can claim David Price, yet people will still flock down here escaping the city of ruins. But that may just be the problem, people escaping cities to move down here. It is hard to imagine many of these retirees, etc. are going to be in support of growing through a better mass transit system. But I hope these get passed.
 

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I thought this existed...I must have been dreaming when driving through channelside yesterday.

The TECO Line Streetcar System currently offers 11 station stops along its 2.7-mile route. Five stops are located in Tampa’s Channel District, four are in historic Ybor City and two are downtown.
 

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Planners of today have not to plan for today but for future generations. They need to have a Vision. Is the area mostly sprawl? Yes, but yet there is need of transportation since there are several core areas that would attract transit users. A rail line also is the backbone and catalyst of more dense development.

Do anti tax People with their opposition really save taxpayer's money? NO. By delaying decsions for necessary sustainable development they cause more cost in the future since it will get more difficult to build a reasonable transportation System later. Just relying on cars is the biggest mistake. It is easy to oppose anything without giving an alternative solution. Keeping the status quo is the beginning of the decline of a regions opportunities.
 
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