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Just thinking!!! How do we compare as a tram system on a European level? Are we catching up? Or still well behind? Do we need to set our bench mark to our European cousins? Or just try and be the largest in the UK?

DEBATE!!!!
 

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Just thinking!!! How do we compare as a tram system on a European level? Are we catching up? Or still well behind? Do we need to set our bench mark to our European cousins? Or just try and be the largest in the UK?

DEBATE!!!!
I'd rather not do comparisons, as I would prefer that we do it our own way, and expand the network slowly but surely. My only input here would be to say that the Salford-Atherton-Wigan line is probably the next expansion needed after TC and Port Salford. Why can we not do that as a tram line only terminating at Wigan Wallgate? Anyone going further afield to Kirkby or Southport can change at Wallgate.
 

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Just thinking!!! How do we compare as a tram system on a European level? Are we catching up? Or still well behind? Do we need to set our bench mark to our European cousins? Or just try and be the largest in the UK?

DEBATE!!!!
Not sure that it's fair to try comparisons with Europe. Most European countries didn't scrap their first generation systems as we did after the 2nd world war. Instead, they were repaired and upgraded. True there have been some new lines and expansions to existing. So, if you are only comparing new lines/systems then it's possible that Metrolink compares very favourably.
 

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The growth of the Metrolink over the last 22 years has been - truthfully speaking - extraordinary. I was thinking about thinking about this a few months hence my nerdy (hopefully enlightening) understanding. Compare the tram networks in European cities and Greater Manchester has done very well to establish a 78km system in just over 20 years.

As bogblaster states many European countries retained their old tram systems so in some cases they have a 100+ year headstart over the Metrolink. Of course this adds a layer of complexity (i.e. modern trams or heritage trams? Should tram-trains be considered?) that makes it difficult to compare individual systems.

On a UK level, no other tram network comes close. The Metrolink network is 78km in size (will be 96km when airport line opens I think?). The closest system in the DLR with 34km.
 

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In comparison, issues of speed of delivery, building, cost to construct and ride and size seem to be better on the continent.

As an icon for the city, Metrolink excels.
True! But most other countries are not as bogged down in red tape with regard to planning, building regulations etc. as is the UK. So it seems logical that their costs, timescales and other factors like the fact that many European countries are still, and never stopped, building the vehicles.

I agree with your final statement 100%.
 

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They also tend to be publicly operated. Of course it depends on the efficiency of the public body, but this could make for more efficient planning and hopefully cheaper transport without an operator who obviously wants to get the most value out of the contract to run the service.

There are good trams in Berlin, I used them quite a lot while I was staying there. It's quite a lot like Melbourne (but less numerous), the stations are all in the centre of the road, which makes them less accessible, but they do seem to run more reliably and frequently, though of course this is a capital we are talking about. What was really interesting was the north-west Ruhr region, which has an integrated multi-city transport planning authority.

Taking, 'compared to europe' literally, I was in Sofia, Bulgaria recently and was on the most packed tram I have ever been on in my life. It was spectacularly awkward to get over to the ticket validator (old hole-punch thing) but it was extremely cheap.
 

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True! But most other countries are not as bogged down in red tape with regard to planning, building regulations etc. as is the UK. So it seems logical that their costs, timescales and other factors like the fact that many European countries are still, and never stopped, building the vehicles.

I agree with your final statement 100%.
You agree with my first statement.

Delivery, speed of building, scale of service, cost seem to be more consistent and robust abroad than here as I said.

As an urban icon, I can think the Parisienne Metro, the London underground and maybe stoners bouncing off the trams in Damm square, but no where else places their method of transporting it's citizenry about as a vision of the city.

It's a curio, but it is Manchester yer Metrolink.
 

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Its still someway behind Munich's two tier (or three tier) Tram and U-Bahn/S-Bahn systems

When Tram-Train has penetrated to Marple, Hadfield/Glossop and Atherton then may be we're close (but if I lived in Bolton or Middleton I'd not be happy)
 

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I think NET is getting there in terms of how much of the city is served, a line to the east would really make it a competitor (when you compare the size of Nottingham to Manchester).

Their Trams are much more aesthetically pleasing, too. The new line U/C has some attractive stretches as well.





(Will be nearly 34km when finished)
 

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i agree that an eastward extension will give them a nice spread in all four directions - Metrolink needs to plug its gaps in Stockport and Bolton - I personally feel Wigan is too far away...
 
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[rantmode=on] my simple point was that distances (and speeds, thanks Shrimper) make no sense to the vast majority when quoted using kilometres - and miles/chains are still relevant in the railways - I find the nonsensical enforced use of metrification in this area (especially by the bl**dy BBC) a real and pointless annoyance[rantmode=off] ;-)

that link, by the way, is wrong when it comes to the diamond shaped signage - it indicates the black text on white diamond is i n kilometres per hour - I don't believe that is what's real on the ground in Manchester, they're MPH values
 

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Disco Steve, you are entitled to your views. Enjoy your inches and miles with your cassette tape collection, electric typewriter and flared jeans.

NET is excellent. It's patronage is remarkable and it is aesthetically more pleasing in it's design.

But.....

As an iconm the tram isn't the first thing to cling to when I think of Nottingham. I image it's the Castle, Cloughie and the Trent before NET.

Whilst with Manchester, it's all part of the rich iconography that constitutes the city.
 

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Disco Steve, you are entitled to your views. Enjoy your inches and miles with your cassette tape collection, electric typewriter and flared jeans.
You do yourself no favours with cr*p like that - especially when you are a million miles from the truth - sorry 1,609,000 kilometres from the truth :eek:hno:
NET is excellent. It's patronage is remarkable and it is aesthetically more pleaing in it's:design.

But.....

As an icon the tram isn't the first thing to cling to when I think of Nottingham. I image it's the Castle, Cloughie and the Trent before NET.

Whilst with Manchester, it's all part of the rich iconography that constitutes the city.
And on the flip side you are spot on with this - though I would also add that Nottingham is the least welcoming City in the whole land with its near blanket use of average speed cameras on its main roads ... makes it feel like Stepford when you're driving there
 
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