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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How many k's of freeway does each city in Australia have?

a rough estimate I did for Melbourne gave 320km including Eastlink and the Pakenham Bypass.
 

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MelbourneMan said:
How many k's of freeway does each city in Australia have?

a rough estimate I did for Melbourne gave 320km including Eastlink and the Pakenham Bypass.

Hmm, for Melbourne, did you include roads which have been classified as 'freeway' by Vicroads? Strange as it is, Airport Drive in Airport West / Tullamarine is a declared freeway - a total of 1.6 km. I my opinion that road should of been deemed just a normal arterial road.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's odd. But it does pass over a couple of surface streets and the interchange with the Western Ring road doesn't have any traffic lights ;) Any pics or info on Airport Drive?

my estimate for melbourne is only rough, using Melways scales, distance signs while driving along the freeways and advertised lengths of freeway projects.
 

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from a recent article in the age - it stated per capita melbourne has the largest number of roads - not sure if that can be translated as largest number of freeway km per capita as well
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
zach24 said:
from a recent article in the age - it stated per capita melbourne has the largest number of roads - not sure if that can be translated as largest number of freeway km per capita as well
From what I've heard, Tasmania has the highest freeway km per capita.

Let's get some stats, maps and pics in Folks! I'll start:

includes pakenham, Geelong, Deerpark bypasses and Eastlink - all u/c or about to commence.
 

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But European and I am guessing Canadian cities have denser populations around the cities.
 

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zach24 said:
yeah that was the one jason

pretty sad that australian cities are down the bottm
Well its to be expected. Lets compare Vienna's population density to say Oslo's and then Melbourne's and Perth's.

Vienna: 3,931.3/km²
Oslo: 1,225/km²
Melbourne: 479.6/km²
Perth: 274.4/km²

Seems there is an obvious pattern there..

And for example Perth is building it's new rail network, but most of it is still car (and bus dependant) because the cities population is so spread out.
 

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zach24 said:
yeah that was the one jason

pretty sad that australian cities are down the bottm
They used data selectively in order to prove a point. I'm Australian cities would be a lot higher up if they included American cities, most of which have very small public transport systems.
 

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I bet if you then look at a regional town like Mackay, the number of kilometres of road per capita would be much higher again.

A higher road km per capita reflects either a decrease in car density on the road, or an increase in car usage/decrease in public transport. As Melbourne has a bigger better public transport system than Brisbane (the article even shows a higher pt boarding figure), and is also a bigger denser city, it seems very odd that it has higher road km per capita, and I suspect that they used a dodgy way of measuring the stats to arrive at that conclusion.
 

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perth has about 80km of freeways atm not including roe highway etc... but its soon to be extended to bunbury so it will be probably be about 250km by 2010
 

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when a viable alternative energy source for cars come's along, (post oil energy era) our roads will be an economic gold mine... trust me ;)

the fact that our cities are designed around roads, (and well designed too) will be a big benifit in the not too distant future.
 

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There will never be mass motoring beyond the oil age, as none of the "alternatives" are or ever will be scalable to a level even remotely within cooee of the present levels of automobility.

As such only the rich will be able to drive, and the poor won't take too kindly to having their taxes pay for road upkeep when they are no use to them. Meanwhile the police will have better things to do than check for overloaded trucks, so as things get tough and truckies have to find ways of cutting costs or boosting income, they'll probably be quite happy to overload their vehicles with little regard for the road damage.

The road system will probably collapse for the most part and what's left will bear little resemblence to what we know now.

Here's some food for thought, courtesy of google images...







 

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There will never be mass motoring beyond the oil age, as none of the "alternatives" are or ever will be scalable to a level even remotely within cooee of the present levels of automobility.

As such only the rich will be able to drive, and the poor won't take too kindly to having their taxes pay for road upkeep when they are no use to them. Meanwhile the police will have better things to do than check for overloaded trucks, so as things get tough and truckies have to find ways of cutting costs or boosting income, they'll probably be quite happy to overload their vehicles with little regard for the road damage.

The road system will probably collapse for the most part and what's left will bear little resemblence to what we know now.
Hmm..sounds like it could be the basis of a new Mad Max road warrior genre of movie and sequels of post modern apocalyptic oil economy meltdown and the subsequent decay of society as we know it.

Hey anyone ever hear of horses! I remember the Romans built great roads long before the horseless carriage came about too.

Whether we like it or not (refer to my recent posts in the WA forum) technology will deliver some other form of personal transport - whether it be an update of an old technology- ie horse drawn buggy, or a completely new format yet to be invented, something will come along.

Our society's challenge is to ensure that whatever it is, it makes our cities better places, not worse, which many would argue (me included to a certain extent) the motor vehicle did.
 

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andrewM said:
Hmm..sounds like it could be the basis of a new Mad Max road warrior genre of movie and sequels of post modern apocalyptic oil economy meltdown and the subsequent decay of society as we know it.
I haven't seen that movie since.. Hrmmm.. The early 90s when an uncle borrowed our VCR to edit out what he thought were the boring bits..

And I wasn't paying attention..

andrewM said:
Hey anyone ever hear of horses! I remember the Romans built great roads long before the horseless carriage came about too.
Even with a population 1/10th of what we have today, there were streets full of horse pollution (of the solid and liquid varieties). The resulting stench, disease and so on presented significant public health problems. At times, boots were not just in fashion, they were essential.

andrewM said:
Whether we like it or not (refer to my recent posts in the WA forum) technology will deliver some other form of personal transport - whether it be an update of an old technology- ie horse drawn buggy, or a completely new format yet to be invented, something will come along.
Of course.

However, I would counter that personal transportation is a luxury afforded to society thanks to cheap and plentiful oil and the resulting industries. No other energy source or energy carrier will be as plentiful, easily stored, easily converted, have high energy to volume (at standard temperatures and pressures). Even if something else came along, it would not afford mobility to such colossal numbers of people.

Substantial public transport upgrades would allow a large proportion of urban society to cling to the mobility it has become accustomed to over the last fifty years but if it's not done or is given the usual half-smegged treatment usually afforded to public transport by government, it's all over for the middle class, quite possibly within a decade.

andrewM said:
Our society's challenge is to ensure that whatever it is, it makes our cities better places, not worse, which many would argue (me included to a certain extent) the motor vehicle did.
I'd say our cities will become substantially worse (moreso) long before anything new comes on stream.

Remember leaded petrol? The switch from leaded to unleaded was a relatively minor one, however it took 17 years (most of which were economically prosperous) from the date the switch became mandatory until they could get away with not selling leaded fuel. Also, at the end it was the poor that were still driving leaded vehicles, who were crying poor as leaded fuel prices started to rise above unleaded. The rich got the cheaper fuel as they'd already gone and bought their new cars.

Imagine what it would take to phase out conventional vehicles altogether if regulations were put in place for a conversion to something else as vehicles are bought, during years of economic turmoil, high energy prices and stretched budgets. Regulation could and probably would take about as long as super to unleaded. voluntary would probably take a century. Either way it's the poor that will be stuck driving surplus conventionally fueled SUVs as they hit the used car market in large quantities.

As for the photos, I simply did a google images search for abandoned freeway and found a bunch that seemed appropriate for the discussion. Who knows. Bypassed by some other freeway, money ran out, or otherwise never completed. Take your pick.
 

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I just did a few quick sums, and going by my calculations SEQ has approximately 400 km of freeways. That figure includes the majors like the Pacific, Gateway, Ipswich and Logan Motorways, plus the Western Freeway and Centenary Highway. As for Brisbane itself, well that depends on what you classify as Brisbane. In Brisbane City proper there would be about 100 km of freeways, but if you include the neighbouring cities/shires, it'd be closer to 200 km.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Trent, thankyou for putting this thread back on topic :bow: all this talk about oil running out is getting really boring and irritating.

I came to the conclusion that Melbourne has approximately 325km of Freeway and Victoria has 1050km of expressways (to please the purists), including the Melb freeway network. The South Gippsland/Bass Hwy adds an additional 40-50km of high standard dual highway.

MELBOURNE - approximate lengths of freeway
Westgate Fwy: 10km
Princes Fwy: 20km
Tullamarine Fwy: 24km
Calder Fwy: 20km
Western HWy (inc Deerpark bypass): 20km
Western Ring Road: 40km
Craigieburn Bypass: 17km
Airport Drive: 1.6km
Monash Freeway: 55km
South Gippsland Fwy: 5km
Pakenham Bypass: 20km
Eastlink: 60km
Frankston Fwy: 15km
Morn. Penin. Fwy: 20km
 

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trentthomson said:
I just did a few quick sums, and going by my calculations SEQ has approximately 400 km of freeways. That figure includes the majors like the Pacific, Gateway, Ipswich and Logan Motorways, plus the Western Freeway and Centenary Highway. As for Brisbane itself, well that depends on what you classify as Brisbane. In Brisbane City proper there would be about 100 km of freeways, but if you include the neighbouring cities/shires, it'd be closer to 200 km.
That sounds about right. That doesn't include roads which are of freeway quality like the Deagon Deviation and Moreton Bay Road (bypass) at Capalaba, the Riverside Expressway or the ICB.
 
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