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Although heavily discussed in the ‘Your Sheffield Transport Solutions’ thread, as this will be the biggest transport infrastructure for Sheffield in our lifetime, I thought HS2 deserved its own thread.

With the announcement of the routes imminent, interesting article in this weeks Telegraph. Although I was not aware that Liverpool was getting HS2 at this stage.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...Liverpool-win-while-Sheffield-loses-out.html#

As for Meadowhall, please god no. :eek:hno:
 

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Sadly it is looking like Meadowhall as we're told Sheffield doesn't generate enough traffic or have enough businesses to justify the cost of tunnelling that would be needed, but then you hear that Crewe (population <70k) is going to be included on the high speed network with a 1.5bn underground transport interchange thanks to lobbying by George Osborne, which if true absolutely stinks.
 

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Nothing's set in tablets of stone yet... As for Crewe, the most recent service diagram shows Crewe being served by a single classic compatible train an hour, whereas Sheffield is shown as being served by 7 trains per hour - it might be a few miles out of the city centre, but that's more trains than Manchester is getting.

See page 67 - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...e/3650/hs2-economic-case-appraisal-update.pdf
 

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A station in Sheffield city centre would require a lot of tunneling. The business argument just isn't there when you compare cities like Manc & Brum which have 2.5m+ in their met area. Sheffield & South Yorkshire has half that.It makes sense just to have the stop at Meadowhall with trams/bus/train connections & the M1 nearby.

Saying that, an opportunity to link Leeds and Sheffield will have been missed. I hope High Speed 3 is built one day linking Liverpool-Manchester-Sheffield-Leeds-Hull. Alas, will probably only happen when the Westminster mob gets their heads out of their....
 

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Saying that, an opportunity to link Leeds and Sheffield will have been missed.
Huh ? The next station north of Meadowhall is Leeds with six trains per hour ! The fly in the ointment will be someone will see a great opportunity at HS2 Ltd to charge for parking at Meadowhall, this making that station as useful as a chocolate fireguard for commuters heading into Leeds
 

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Huh ? The next station north of Meadowhall is Leeds with six trains per hour ! The fly in the ointment will be someone will see a great opportunity at HS2 Ltd to charge for parking at Meadowhall, this making that station as useful as a chocolate fireguard for commuters heading into Leeds
People keep saying "Meadowhall".......but will it really be at Meadowhall, I know that's what most people call that area now but my money is on the old Tinsley marshalling yard, a fair distance from Meadowhall but we'll see.
 

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Which would make it even more poorly integrated with Sheffield's transport (the only way it would work reasonably well is with direct interchange with Meadowhall National Rail station). Though this wouldn't surprise me since Nottingham's station is nowhere near any existing transport interchange (and indeed built too on disused sidings).

There has been leaked talk of money spent on transport improvements to link the HS2 with the rest of Sheffield and people have put 2 and 2 together to think we'll be getting an expanded supertram, but there's no way the govt is going to spend the billion £ needed to expand supertram in a meaningful way, so I expect these transport improvements will amount to a few traffic lights and roundabouts and a shuttle bus.
 

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You could have dedicated shuttle services timed with the arrival and departure of HS2 trains running on the main rail line linking Meadowhall to the city centre. Take 5 minutes.
 

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That's not the point. Any changing service, be it train, tram or shuttle bus, will be a huge let down, and a injustice and insult to one of the UK's biggest cities.

If Clegg isn't lobbying vigorously for a direct link or spur he isn't doing his job for his constituants in the west of the city.
 

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He probably has but it was never going to happen anyway.

The silly lobbying for an HS2 station at Victoria by the Lib Dems was embarrassing, anyone with half a brain knew it was complete bollocks.

 

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If Clegg isn't lobbying vigorously for a direct link or spur he isn't doing his job for his constituants in the west of the city.
No doubt he's lobbied, but he's one man against a shoddy business case. I'd prefer the station to be in the centre, but if that's not possible then I'd rather have one near Meadowhall than be like Edinburgh, Glasgow, Newcastle, Bristol, the Portsmouth/Southampton conurbation etc. in not having any HS connection at all. It's worth pointing out that Bristol doesn't even have an existing mainline connection into it's centre, and yet it's set to be one of the boom cities of the next few decades, so I think we can read too much into the location of the HS2 stop when we're still going to be better connected than many other large cities.
 

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Sheffield will be well plugged into the national rail network by the time HS2 arrives and the MML is electrified.

I hope the council and city leaders embrace the opportunities that an HS2 station near Meadowhall will bring, instead of whinging about being hard done by because it won't be in the centre.
 

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As mentioned in the transport thread, wouldn't impossible to have a few trains each day leave Shefield Midland on existing track before joining the HS track at Meadowhall or via the Worksop line. Difficult but not impossible. And as Larven states, they have 20 years to sort it out.
 

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No available paths on the southern section or junction between classical and HS2 in the area makes such a suggestion incredibly unlikely, if not impossible.
 

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People keep saying "Meadowhall".......but will it really be at Meadowhall, I know that's what most people call that area now but my money is on the old Tinsley marshalling yard, a fair distance from Meadowhall but we'll see.
Agreed, I've become guilty of it recently as its referred to as "South Yorkshire" :-/

Putting my major projects civil engineering head back on, whilst Meadowhall on the face of it works well in terms of linking to the Sheffield-Rotherham line, there are still fundamental engineering issues over a site at this location. Firstly making an assumption any station would be in the gap between Meadowhall and the Tinsley Viaduct, the route would need to be at a high level to clear the roundabouts at each end of the viaduct - HS2 can't go under these as the Don Valley is a flood plain. The 400kph corridor either end is tight and will require a fair amount of industrial demolition.

Looking at a wider view, there is a direct straight line path between Morrisons and Catcliffe, between Brinsworth and Tinsley and just to the west of Magna, then diving into a tunnel under Kimberworth and continuing more or less in a straight line north passing (through or under) Wentworth, between Jump & Hemmingfield, tunnel under Ardsley, then arrow straight to pass just west of Normington and onwards to the ECML - Station either at at Orgreave with a heavy rail connecting station on the Sheffield-Worksop line or on a viaduct just north of Magna with a people mover to an improved Meadowhall Interchange - big disadvantage is the place will be right next to all the brown stuff flowing out of Sheffield ;-) sounds daft. ? It's a straight line unlike something passing parallel to the viaduct.

Another possibility is roughly following the M1 > M18 > pass east of Conisbrough, between Adwick and Bentley and joining the ECML near Askern - plenty of opportunities for a station anywhere along the M18 - spur to Leeds before it joins the ECML - sounds daft ? It's an easier route to build and avoids the traffic chaos that is Meadowhall at Christmas, links well to the HA managed motorway plans (M1 J32-35a) - you could slap a new 100kph heavy rail line in link Sheffield and Doncaster
 

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No available paths on the southern section or junction between classical and HS2 in the area makes such a suggestion incredibly unlikely, if not impossible.
You said Sheffield wasn't going to get anything more than a single train per hour until proven foolishly incorrect with the headline figure of seven trains per hour in the Jan 2012 HS2 economic case - given moves are afoot for a £1Bn transport fund for South Yorkshire, similar to what's a bit further down the line in West Yorkshire and already started in Greater Manchester, there's nothing in the way of SYPTE funding by other means extensions to services directly into Sheffield, Barnsley, Rotherham and Doncaster, even if they are just a couple of services per day down to Birmingham Interchange - there are currently 17 paths planned between Birmingham and Old Oak/Heathrow, HS2 expect to push to 18 paths per hour, that's an extra 15 trains per day and expect to push to 20 paths per hour with improvements to signal technology by 2030 - nothing's impossible at this stage
 

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Hay - you're going on ignore, you're confused and misquoting me and clearly have no idea what you're taking about.

Bye for ever.
 

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Whichever way you look at it, there are no easy routes to stick a straight HS2 line through any part of Sheffield. "Meadowhall" might even be something of a victory for Sheffielders, as East Rotherham looks far more favourable a route to me - a route east of the M1 up from Derby/Nottingham would surely be flatter (and cheaper) than a route to the west of the M1.


As someone said earlier, the Tinsley viaduct will probably be replaced in the next 20 years, so that part might not be the major problem. Getting to and from "Meadowhall" looks far from obvious to me.


I wonder if they'll replace the Tinsley viaduct with something similarly unattractive and relatively short-lived? It'd be nice to think that it could be replaced with a suspension bridge - an architectural landmark for Sheffield. (No-one in the rest of the UK knows anywhere other than the Crucible at the moment).
 
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