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Champagne Socialist
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redirected from the Melbourne PT thread


The real story is that the Vic Gov has sent its latest infrastructure wishlist to Infrastructure Australia. A visit to the Dep't of Premier and Cabinet website will find you a downloadable copy. The other states and territory equivalents should have them online also.
Vic Dept of Premier and Cabinet: http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/media...ctorias-priority-infrastructure-projects.html

Coalition Government delivers strong case for federal funding of Victoria’s priority infrastructure projects

Monday, 06 August 2012

From the Premier
The Victorian Coalition Government has presented its 2012 Priority Infrastructure submission to Infrastructure Australia.

Premier Ted Baillieu said the Coalition Government's priority infrastructure projects have the potential to address Victoria's infrastructure backlog, to get Victoria moving again, to generate jobs and investment, and to deliver economic growth and prosperity for Victoria.

"The Coalition Government has put in place the right fiscal and policy frameworks, as well as the planning and project development work, to progress these visionary infrastructure projects," Mr Baillieu said.

"This year the Coalition Government is investing a record $5.8 billion for infrastructure including delivering funding to progress a number of Victoria's priority infrastructure projects.

"The Coalition Government's strong economic management will deliver higher budget surpluses over the forward estimates, that will enable us to increase investment in infrastructure, reduce debt and maintain Victoria's triple-A credit rating.

"It was pleasing to see Infrastructure Australia recommend funding for a number of Victoria's priority projects to the Federal Labor Government.

"It is concerning that while the Victorian Coalition Government has increased infrastructure funding, the Federal Labor Government is reducing infrastructure funding.

"The Federal Labor Government short changed Victoria in this year's Federal Budget. For the first time in memory, the Commonwealth gave Victoria less infrastructure funding than any other state.

"Commonwealth funding would be absolutely essential to deliver these visionary projects and Victoria looks forward to working with Infrastructure Australia to progress Victoria's infrastructure projects and secure Commonwealth funding.

"Victoria's infrastructure priorities include major city-shaping projects, improvements to existing infrastructure and planning for long term needs and priorities of the National Land Transport Network," Mr Baillieu said.

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The Victorian Government is seeking Infrastructure Australia's support in recommending the following major city-shaping projects for Commonwealth funding through the next round of the Nation Building Program:

East West Link – construction of a freeway-standard link connecting the Eastern Freeway to CityLink, the Port of Melbourne and to the M80 Ring Road;
Melbourne Metro – construction of a nine-kilometre rail tunnel between South Kensington and South Yarra, including five new stations at Arden, Parkville, CBD North, CBD South and Domain;
Port of Hastings – planning for and construction of the Port of Hastings as an international container port, including planning for transport links such as the Western Port Highway;
Dandenong Rail Capacity Program – staged construction of a series of projects along the Dandenong Rail Corridor, including priority grade separations, signalling upgrades and platform lengthening to allow the running of high-capacity trains;
Western Interstate Freight Terminal – construction of an interstate freight terminal and freight precinct in Melbourne's west at Truganina, including a standard gauge rail link to the interstate rail line; and
M80 Upgrade – completion of the staged upgrade to the M80 Ring Road between Laverton North and Greensborough.

The Victorian Government is seeking Infrastructure Australia's support in recommending the following projects for Commonwealth funding for planning, development and delivery through the next round of the Nation Building Program:

Removing Level Crossings – a progressive program of level crossing removal in strategic corridors across metropolitan Melbourne;
Avalon Airport Rail Link – construction of a rail connection from Avalon Airport to the Melbourne-Geelong rail line, the construction of a new station at Avalon and grade separations;
Growth Areas – Priority Transport Package – package of transport initiatives in Melbourne's growth areas such as the upgrade of arterial roads and public transport corridors;
Managed Motorways – progressive roll out of intelligent transport systems technology across Melbourne's freeway network;
Western Highway Duplication – Ballarat to Stawell – completion of the Western Highway duplication from Ballarat to Stawell;
Princes Highway East Duplication – Traralgon to Sale – continuation of the corridor upgrade, including the duplication of highway sections between Traralgon and Sale;
Shepparton Bypass – construction of a bypass of Shepparton on the Goulburn Valley Highway;
High Productivity Freight Vehicles Upgrade Package – staged upgrades of key freight routes to cater for 77.5 tonne quad axle b-double configuration high productivity freight vehicles;
High Capacity Signalling Project – development and roll out of new high-capacity train signalling technology across existing rail lines (such as the Dandenong Rail Corridor) and on future rail links (such as Melbourne Metro);
Outer Metropolitan Ring Transport Corridor – planning and corridor protection – transport corridor reservation and protection to provide long-term orbital capacity for the metropolitan transport network; and
Murray Basin Transcontinental Rail Link (including standardising the Mildura Line) – planning for and construction of a Transcontinental Rail Link between Mildura and Menindee (near Broken Hill, NSW) connecting to the Sydney-Perth rail line. The project would include the standardisation of the Mildura rail line and construction of a rail bypass of Mildura.

The Victorian Government will progress the following projects valued at less than $100 million with the Commonwealth Government for funding through the next round of the Nation Building Program:

Calder Freeway – Calder Park Drive – this project will upgrade the existing at-grade intersection at Calder Freeway-Calder Park Drive with a grade separated interchange;
Hume Freeway – Kalkallo to Beveridge – removal of unrestricted at-grade access on the Hume Freeway between Kalkallo and Beveridge;
Princes Highway East – Nar Nar Goon to Longwarry – removal of unrestricted at-grade access on the Princes Highway East between Nar Nar Goon and Longwarry North;
Western Highway – Rockbank to Melton – removal of unrestricted at-grade access on the Western Highway between Rockbank and Melton;
Sturt Highway – Mildura Truck Bypass – the construction of a truck bypass of Mildura on the Sturt Highway;
Green Triangle Freight Transport Program – a program of road upgrade projects in south west Victoria and south east South Australia, particularly timber roads;
Calder Highway Alt – Interchange at Ravenswood – grade separation of the existing Calder Highway-Calder Alternative Route Intersection at Ravenswood, near Bendigo;
Goulburn Valley Highway – Strathmerton Deviation – realignment of a 20 kilometre section of the Goulburn Valley Highway at Strathmerton. The project would be phased after the construction of a Shepparton Bypass;
Metropolitan Intermodal System – the development of a series of metropolitan intermodal terminals networked by high-capacity road and rail links, including connections to metropolitan container ports;
Transport Solutions – including timber roads projects – projects identified through the Victorian Government's Transport Solutions framework that address supply chain bottlenecks, particularly in regional Victoria including those that support the timber industry; and
Tram Route 86 – demonstration project that involves a series of infrastructure and traffic management treatments to provide public transport priority and help revitalise High Street and Plenty Road, Darebin.

The Victorian Government will continue to work with Infrastructure Australia and the Commonwealth Government as the following projects progress:

Doncaster Rail Link Study – a feasibility study into the potential for a rail link connecting Doncaster to the metropolitan rail network;
Rowville Rail Link Study – a feasibility study into the potential for a rail link connecting Rowville to the metropolitan rail network;
Melbourne Airport Rail Link Study – a feasibility study into the potential for a rail link connecting Melbourne Airport to the metropolitan rail network;
Rail Revival Study – a study into the long-term feasibility of returning passenger trains between Geelong, Ballarat and Bendigo;
Upgrade Regional Passenger Lines – the provision of additional tracks and an electrified service between Sunshine and Melton and capacity improvements on the Ballarat and Bendigo lines;
Horsham Bypass – long-term priority for the construction of a Western Highway bypass of Horsham, based on planning work carried out under the Nation Building Program;
Tullamarine Freeway Widening – widening of the Tullamarine Freeway between the M80 Ring Road and Melbourne Airport;
North East Link – long-term priority for the construction of a freeway-standard link between the Metropolitan Ring Road at Greensborough and the Eastern Freeway; and
Murray River Crossings – Echuca, Swan Hill and Yarrawonga – sequenced construction of new bridges at Echuca, Swan Hill and Yarrawonga, with the initial priority at Echuca.

______________

the big ticket items in the first group - I hope IA tells Ballieu to nick off re: East-West tunnel, and prioritises Metro and Dandenong corridor over all others.


It'll be interesting to see what other states come up with.
 

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even if the construction is funded by the Federal Government their is still probably about $2 billion in pre-construction including land acquisition associated with the project + any other surface transport works that might be tacked onto the project to pander to the PT crowd like tram priority on Smith/Brunswick/Nicholson/Lygon or bus priority on Johnston/Punt etc.

that NSW article is very interesting - I have heard similar things with Greiner seeing an opportunity to be powerful again through INSW.

IA is a much better organisation... they initially put out a very strong position against funding road projects basically saying that if a road project couldn't be funded by tolls then that showed it wasn't worth building. They have since moderated to say that there are certain strategic links that may warrant some government intervention - I think this is as much to do with the economic enviroment and difficulties of various Sydney and Queensland toll road proejcts (and even Eastlink for a period) rather than politics or some other agenda.
 

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John_Proctor said:
I think this is as much to do with the economic enviroment and difficulties of various Sydney and Queensland toll road proejcts (and even Eastlink for a period) rather than politics or some other agenda.
I agree with you on this.

On a side note, why do you refer to "Sydney and QUEENSLAND" toll roads... I'm not having a go, but its always made me curious that many people in southern states refer to Qld as a whole, rather than Brisbane. All the toll road projects are in Brisbane,, and central Brisbane at that. Queensland is a big state so why not be specific?

I have many friends who say they're going to "Queensland", but where are they going? Gold Coast? Cairns? I would never say I'm going to Victoria if I was going to Melbourne, for example... It's just a curiousity for me, having lived in a number if different States.
 

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Of one thing there is no doubt, the Brisbane Cross River Rail project should be the no 1 priority above all other city rail projects listed.

Brisbane's rail infrastructure has been always lacking compared to Melbourne and Sydney, and with the Merivale Bridge at capacity, all other improvements are at a standstill until their are more river crossing tracks added to the city. Also the Brisbane CBD only has 2 stations compared to 5/6 in Melbourne and Sydney.
 

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Champagne Socialist
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Id argue both Metro and the Cross River project are both on the same level - what you say about Brisbane's capacity applies to Melbourne as well.

I dont want to get into city v city pissing contests, but number of CBD stations is irrelevant given the Metro project is more about creating a true metro line which just happens to be through the heart of the city rather than creating another line to just get people into/out of the CBD.

Taken in context the line will be responsible for ~25k people living around the Arden Station in North Melbourne, more trains to Footscray and South Yarra - further enhancing these areas appeal for both commercial and residential redevelopment, makes St. Kilda Road more attractive to development (Not that it isnt already) and relieves congestion on the world's business tram route (St. Kilda Road/Swanston st - the busiest section will eventually have access to 4 heavy rail stations which will get people where they want to go (UniMelb/Hostpitals/Bio precinct in the north and the top of St. Kilda Road in the south).

Further more the existing South Kensington station this line is likely to go through will over time play host to the redevelopment of the semi-industrial land immediately to the south of it.

Hate to say it, but I dare say the economic benefits would be greater than those of the Cross River Rail - but context is important and the smaller scope of Brisbane's project is just as valuable to Brisbane and hence they're both on the same priority level.
 

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On a side note, why do you refer to "Sydney and QUEENSLAND" toll roads... I'm not having a go, but its always made me curious that many people in southern states refer to Qld as a whole, rather than Brisbane.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the impression we get is that Queensland people do not regard themselves as being in Brisbane unless they are within the BCC boundaries, ie all the "outer suburbs" (which anywhere else would be regarded as part of Melbourne, Sydney etc) are just SE Queensland

For example, I once caught a train from Ipswich, and because both platforms had a train waiting, but no obvious signage, (and since Rosewood trains commence there too) so I asked somebody "does this train go to the City?" They corrected me that "this one goes to BRISBANE"

Even agencies such as Translink or Ministerial statements etc. hardly ever say "Brisbane", they always talk Queensland, or South East Queensland of they specifically mean areas near Brisbane.

Whilst you're on the topic, it's funny that Queenslanders call everyone else "southern states" just like in WA everyone else is the "eastern states".
Nobody from Victoria calls the rest "northern states".

(I know NSW calls Victorians "Mexicans" - I mean do they think they are USA or something? and that Queenslanders are Canadian?)

NSW people also tend to be very NSW centric - for example, they call the stretch from Port Macquarie to Tweed heads as the "North Coast" even when talking in a national context, when that's actually part of Australia's east coast.
The North Coast is really from the Kimberley to Cape York, (or maybe Darwin to Arnhem Land depending on how broadly you look at it)
 

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Agreed that Melbourne Metro and Brisbane Cross River Rail are the two most significant projects in the country. Alot more significant than the NW rail link which is not city shaping but just give the outer suburban slum dwellars a gold plate. Should have been the city transforming west metro connecting parra to Central and off setting the need for the tunnel under Parramatta Rd. If Sydney want multi billion dollar freeways, they can pay for it through tolls and the private sector
 

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IA have already said North West Rail Link is not of itnerest to them (although politics is a funny game!)

re: CRR/Melbourne Metro - they are rated 1 and 2 on the IA priority list of ready to proceed projects. I think that they are so similar in project scope and justification that it is hard to seaprate them on 'need'.



As DAJAN said the main reason I subconsicously wrote Queensland intstead of Brisbane projects is probably because Queensland has done a good job of branding beyond 'just Brisbane' so I'd be as likely to visit Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast, 'further north' as to visit Brisbane... where as NSW basically promotes itself as the Sydney state (in my eyes anyway). Also much of the stategic planning (again as DAJAN says) is for SEQ not Brisbane in isolation where as Sydney and Melborune planning tends to be metropolitan centric.

Further - I don't know Brisbane very well and haven't driven on the toll roads to which I was referring so while I get they are in Brisbane itself I'm not really sure if they serve a Brisbane centric purpose (like Lane Cove or Cross City Tunnel are Sydney centric projects) or a SEQ regional need.
 

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LOL don't get me started on the "north coast" of NSW. I guess it's just regional differences that make it interesting. Id suggest its only Ipswich that wouldn't call the train "city" bound. Most other metro areas would.
 

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John_Proctor said:
IA have already said North West Rail Link is not of itnerest to them (although politics is a funny game!)

re: CRR/Melbourne Metro - they are rated 1 and 2 on the IA priority list of ready to proceed projects. I think that they are so similar in project scope and justification that it is hard to seaprate them on 'need'.

As DAJAN said the main reason I subconsicously wrote Queensland intstead of Brisbane projects is probably because Queensland has done a good job of branding beyond 'just Brisbane' so I'd be as likely to visit Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast, 'further north' as to visit Brisbane... where as NSW basically promotes itself as the Sydney state (in my eyes anyway). Also much of the stategic planning (again as DAJAN says) is for SEQ not Brisbane in isolation where as Sydney and Melborune planning tends to be metropolitan centric.

Further - I don't know Brisbane very well and haven't driven on the toll roads to which I was referring so while I get they are in Brisbane itself I'm not really sure if they serve a Brisbane centric purpose (like Lane Cove or Cross City Tunnel are Sydney centric projects) or a SEQ regional need.
Good points. Makes sense. It's a decenralised state. In the US interestingly, people often talk about "California" as a whole too,but are likely to be more specific for Chicago for example.

The current toll projects are very Brisbane centric, but you're right planning as a whole tends to be for SEQ
 

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Tayser said:
I dont want to get into city v city pissing contests, but number of CBD stations is irrelevant given the Metro project is more about creating a true metro line which just happens to be through the heart of the city rather than creating another line to just get people into/out of the CBD.
Hope that was a typo.
 

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Id argue both Metro and the Cross River project are both on the same level - what you say about Brisbane's capacity applies to Melbourne as well.

I dont want to get into city v city pissing contests, but number of CBD stations is irrelevant given the Metro project is more about creating a true metro line which just happens to be through the heart of the city rather than creating another line to just get people into/out of the CBD.
I regard Brisbane's CRR as higher priority than Melbourne Metro (and I'm from Melbourne too)

Melbourne has a limited capacity for extra trains from both the West and the SE as non-loop services, despite not bringing people to their preferred paert of the city (the main bottleneck currently from the west, shall be largely cured by the current RRL project)

Whereas Brisbane is nearing the point of not having capacity in the city for additional suburban trains AT ALL.

As for "Metro project creating a true metro line, rather than creating another line to just get people into/out of the CBD" I'm not sure how you see that?

Melbourne Metro is by no means a true metro (true metro being high frequency, dedicated tracks, no sharing with country or freight, etc) but is another line for Pakenham / Cranbourne / St Albans / Melton (eventually) expresses into/out of the CBD.
Just like CRR will for Caboolture / Kippa-Ring / Beenleigh / Flagstone (eventually)

The fact that Melbourne Metro will also benefit passenger catchment at Domain and Arden, is again, akin to CRR serving Woolloongabba and Exhibition catchments.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Melbourne Metro is by no means a true metro (true metro being high frequency, dedicated tracks, no sharing with country or freight, etc) but is another line for Pakenham / Cranbourne / St Albans / Melton (eventually) expresses into/out of the CBD.
Metro tunnel + Dandenong capacity programmes has every chance of turning the whole line into a proper 'metro or metro-like' line.

Oakleigh-Richmond in peaks gets 15TPH currently (Pak/Cran/Dandenong/Other short stops) they are, in all likelihood going to be the trains that run through this new tunnel - for argument's sake say only Cranbourne / Dandenong/ other short stops are only going to run through the tunnel in peaks - halve the TPH which matches what currently comes from Sydenham to the city Loop at present.

Then there's the question of Melton which will join this track pair at Sunshine when it's electrified and therefore also be running through the tunnel and out to the S.E.

If all 3 current lines + 1 for Melton electrification eventually run on 20 or 15 minute off peak frequencies as is the goal for Metro (reported quite frequently) we're going to see minimum 8 trains an hour off-peak Dandenong to Sunshine. 8TPH (a train every 7.5 minutes) off peak is very much akin to metro services like the London Overground, some of the subway lines in NYC, the L in Chicago and the KCR in Hong Kong.

And like in Brisbane's case, you build for future growth, not just to cater for now - its highly likely there'd be more short stoppers starting at Dandenong/Westall/Oakleigh going through to St. Albans/Sunshine (if an extra platfor where built in Sunshine) to slot in between the main through services from Sunbury, Pakenham, Cranbourne and eventually Melton.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the impression we get is that Queensland people do not regard themselves as being in Brisbane unless they are within the BCC boundaries, ie all the "outer suburbs" (which anywhere else would be regarded as part of Melbourne, Sydney etc) are just SE Queensland

For example, I once caught a train from Ipswich, and because both platforms had a train waiting, but no obvious signage, (and since Rosewood trains commence there too) so I asked somebody "does this train go to the City?" They corrected me that "this one goes to BRISBANE"
Probably because Ipswich is one of the few places in outer Brisbane that has it's own proper town centre the train goes to, rather than just outer suburbs. Most people in outer Brisbane might be specific if talking locally (eg Logan, Pine Rivers, Redlands or whatever) but say they are from Brisbane when interstate. Ipswich people are the exception and one of the few places I might question being included in the Brisbane pop count.

South east qld is just used when you want to include the gold and sunshine coast, not as a replacement for the outer suburbs of Brisbane past the BCC boundary.

Even agencies such as Translink or Ministerial statements etc. hardly ever say "Brisbane", they always talk Queensland, or South East Queensland of they specifically mean areas near Brisbane.
I guess because they are all state govt agencies and the rail system covers the whole of SEQ. The council bus system refers to Brisbane a lot.

Whilst you're on the topic, it's funny that Queenslanders call everyone else "southern states" just like in WA everyone else is the "eastern states".
Nobody from Victoria calls the rest "northern states".
Maybe because South Australia splits things up for Victorians?, some west, some north. With us they are all south and I guess with NSW/VIC being dominant other states centre themselves on them.

(I know NSW calls Victorians "Mexicans" - I mean do they think they are USA or something? and that Queenslanders are Canadian?)
Well you do all pour over the southern borders in winter :)

NSW people also tend to be very NSW centric - for example, they call the stretch from Port Macquarie to Tweed heads as the "North Coast" even when talking in a national context, when that's actually part of Australia's east coast.
The North Coast is really from the Kimberley to Cape York, (or maybe Darwin to Arnhem Land depending on how broadly you look at it)
Personally I think the smaller always thinks this of the larger...Qld'ers will accuse NSW/Vic, Vic accuse NSW, Perth accuse Qld/Vic/NSW, etc etc


Though we are well used to the Qld bogan jibes - from Victorians especially I've noticed but not on this site of course :) - it does feel strange as someone in inner Brisbane usually has far more in common with other city dwellers than they do with someone in north west qld. It actually feels like the person saying it has a limited knowledge about Australia's makeup, as if they are stuck down in one little corner, but I guess it just seems odd to us because we say the same things about qld but are just more specific :lol:
 
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