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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Finally something happens in Denmark railed infrastructure, a light rail in Aarhus!

But i'm a bit sceptic about the line. I think its great that they will make it, and the idea of using the existing lines between Odder and Aarhus and Grenaa and Aarhus is good. Only would i wish that that line would be made as an S-train, as in Copenhagen. The reason i would that, is that Light Rail is perfect for shorter journeys inside a city, or in the nearest suburban city's. But when it comes to journeys over 20 km, in areas where there's often 2 km between city's, a slow light rail wouldn't be as effective as a faster train.

The only part made as two lane light rail is the one around Lystrup and Skejby Hospital. In the area where a light rail would be reasonable IMO. The rest of the line, would be using the existing single lane rail line.

I think, that if this becomes a success, which it most likely will, they should reline the light rail, to more tram/light rail places, and make more of them. But the rail from Odder to Grenaa, and all the planned long distance light rails, should be constructed as S-trains. The S-train has higher passengers capacity, much faster, (120 km/h in Copenhagen, of course a lower average) and IMO a bit more comfortable, but that's not an argument. Then we get an intern light rail, and a suburb S-train!

What's you thoughts about this? :)

The first line:


Close-up:


Red - Single rail
Green - double rail


And future plans. I'm really sry for the bad resolution!
 

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Thanks for starting the thread!

The purpose of the light rail in Aarhus is a hybrid solution of both delivering fast, electrified light rail service in Aarhus and a diesel powered S-train system for Eastern Jutland with Aarhus as the centre. The trains will therefore both have an electric and a diesel engine.

The two independent rail lines Grenaa-Aarhus and Odder-Aarhus will - as stated by Alseimik - be integrated in the first stage of the light rail. As it is now you have to shift trains at Aarhus Central Station if you wish to commute all the way from Odder to Grenaa and vice versa. The light rail will alleviate that particular problem in the future, but it will not mean more stations or more departures on the existing rail line. Regarding speed nothing will change:

De maksimale hastigheder på strækningerne vil variere en del. For de eksisterende nærbaner fastholdes de nuværende hastigheder. Fra Lystrup til Skejby planlægges for 70-80 km/t, med undtagelse af Bygaden i Lisbjerg, hvor hastigheden bliver 50 km/t. På Randersvej, Nørregade, Olof Palmes Allé m.fl. planlægges for en maksimal hastighed på 50-60 km/t, imens hastigheden langs Havnepladsen reduceres yderligere til 20-30 km/t, hovedsageligt pga. sikkerhedsmæssige forhold.
So the most important addition in the first stage will be the "proper" light rail line Aarhus-Lisbjerg.

Read more about the light rail on the official page: http://www.midttrafik.dk/letbane/forside+-+letbane
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You're welcome Asbjoern!

Well, I missed the part of the diesel s-train that you're talking about. Sounds better, if they're faster!

I'm just curious, what are you're thoughts of my idea of splitting it up in the future?
 

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I agree that it can hardly be time efficient to commute from Silkeborg and when you get to the outskirts of Aarhus then you have to stop with regular intervals until you arrive at the city centre, which you are most likely to be commuting to.

At the moment we can not know how big a problem this pose, because future stages have not been decided yet. The second stage is currently being prioritized/chosen and I am certain the people responsible are aware of the problem.

So whilst I agree with your concerns, I think or rather hope there will be solutions to this problem. The vision of having both light rail and S-train combined is in my view better than having two different commuting systems. The S-train system in CPH is hardly something to model in Aarhus with regards to integration in an urban environment and urban aesthetics.
 

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I agree that it can hardly be time efficient to commute from Silkeborg and when you get to the outskirts of Aarhus then you have to stop with regular intervals until you arrive at the city centre, which you are most likely to be commuting to.
Doesn't sound too different from what we do elsewhere. If nobody goes to those stations before the city centre, a possibility is to add density, if that is not possible there should be a need for the stations already. At any event, I have a hard time understanding that there should be a problem. But if possible it is of course better if some trains gfo through with less stops.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
^^
That's what i would like, but i don't believe that its going to much faster, the rail lines would probably be layed allowing the trams/trains get max 2,6 meter wide. So only trams would be able to run at the lines. Making it a long jouney from, lets say Silkeborg. If there was layed a wider line, into the town, maybe it could split up or something, but at least i would wish that it would be a suburban line! Would be much faster.
 

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Finally something happens in Denmark railed infrastructure, a light rail in Aarhus!

But i'm a bit sceptic about the line. I think its great that they will make it, and the idea of using the existing lines between Odder and Aarhus and Grenaa and Aarhus is good. Only would i wish that that line would be made as an S-train, as in Copenhagen. The reason i would that, is that Light Rail is perfect for shorter journeys inside a city, or in the nearest suburban city's. But when it comes to journeys over 20 km, in areas where there's often 2 km between city's, a slow light rail wouldn't be as effective as a faster train.

The only part made as two lane light rail is the one around Lystrup and Skejby Hospital. In the area where a light rail would be reasonable IMO. The rest of the line, would be using the existing single lane rail line.

I think, that if this becomes a success, which it most likely will, they should reline the light rail, to more tram/light rail places, and make more of them. But the rail from Odder to Grenaa, and all the planned long distance light rails, should be constructed as S-trains. The S-train has higher passengers capacity, much faster, (120 km/h in Copenhagen, of course a lower average) and IMO a bit more comfortable, but that's not an argument. Then we get an intern light rail, and a suburb S-train!

What's you thoughts about this? :)

I think you massively over-estimate the importance ot the outer-sections of this line. It simply isnt worth doing much about it. Dont forget that the reason, the new light rail ends in grenå and odder is because the three main lines out of Aarhus are busy with heavy rail. If they were not the new light rail would definately run Skanderborg to Randers.

What makes it a great projet is the new line going through a crucial part of Aarhus from the main station to Skejby ( which is a short enough distance for light rail to be just as good a solution if not better than S-train or metro) and then at both ends make use of the existing lines to link some close suburbs to the new stretch.

whereas the first stage is obviously the right one, I am not impressed by their long term expansion ideas.
There ought to be more coordination between light and heavy rail as it could very well make more sense to build some new faster and direct stretches for heavy rail ( for instance Hadsten-Randers or Skanderborg-Horsens or even skanderborg-Årslev ) and simply hand over the current lines to light rail.

I am not sure what you mean about 120Km/hr being much faster.. Technically the new light rail trains will be able to run at that speed.
 

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State funding of 700 million Danish Kroner has been secured today for the first stage of the light rail. Furthermore the state is now officially going to be part of the construction company that will build the first stage.

Så skulle pengene til letbanen i Århus være på plads. Et bredt flertal i Folketinget har i dag besluttet at støtte letbanen med yderligere 200 mio. kr. Dermed er statens bidrag oppe på 700 mio. kr., mens Århus Kommune investerer 500 mio. kr. i det store projekt.

Samtidig er det besluttet, at staten indgår som mindretalsejer i et anlægsselskab sammen med Århus Kommune og Region Midtjylland - og at staten overdrager Grenaabanen til et kommende letbaneselskab. Derimod er det ikke meningen, at staten skal deltage i driftsselskab af letbanen.

»Nu skulle letbanen være på skinner,« lyder det fra teknisk rådmand Laura Hay (V), der forventer, at første afgang fra Århus H over Skejby og Lisbjerg til Lystrup fløjtes i gang i slutningen af 2015.
Link: http://stiften.dk/article/20101126/AAS/711279977/1003
 

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Interesting to see a lightrail/tram in Aarhus, the city certainly looks suitable for it. After construction of the city tracks, is the Kystbanen abandoned, or will the keep using it?
 

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One of the interesting things is that the new Randersvej rail service is not expected to be faster than the existing buses, on the average, but it will be unaffected by rush hour traffic, and will run a bit more frequently. It should also have higher capacity, I suppose. The first three or four stops surround the central downtown area on three sides, then goes through the university, then goes through Skejby, an area with many apartment complexes, regional headquarters, and the biggest hospital. Just past that (and IKEA) is area where new housing is being developed (mainly single-unit) in what was agricultural land.

A sad thing about combining the northern and southern light rail routes is that the southern route is operated by a private, local company, with old equipment that is distinctive and historic. Here is a picture of their train, called the Odder-grisen (the Odder-piglet):http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/oddergrisen/interesting/
 

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Århus - a beautiful city! - also has the problem of the cul-de-sac station for regional and long-distance trains: so, a new double-track tunnel from Århus H towards the north (and a new main DSB line to Randers) would be a very good thing, together with the light rail projects.

BTW, there is an image of this on page 9 of this document:

http://www.midttrafik.dk/files/Midt...on/Samlet udbygningsnotat_ver D med bilag.pdf

... and there also were more detailed documents available on the web (but now I don't find them).

Anyway, beginning with the S-trains and the light rail projects is of course more urgent: then, the long-distance train tunnel, etc. can come afterwards.
 

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Århus - a beautiful city! - also has the problem of the cul-de-sac station for regional and long-distance trains: so, a new double-track tunnel from Århus H towards the north (and a new main DSB line to Randers) would be a very good thing, together with the light rail projects.

BTW, there is an image of this on page 9 of this document:

http://www.midttrafik.dk/files/Midt...on/Samlet udbygningsnotat_ver D med bilag.pdf

... and there also were more detailed documents available on the web (but now I don't find them).

Anyway, beginning with the S-trains and the light rail projects is of course more urgent: then, the long-distance train tunnel, etc. can come afterwards.
But also on that same page 9, they essentially rule out such a tunnel in all foreseeable future. And probably rightly so. As much as I would like to see it, it will probably be too expensive. And right now, i dont think even the local council wants anything to do with it out of fear of it just being used to question the light rail project.

Rather than these multi-billion projects, i think we should look for cleverer solutions. The governement wants more trains from Aarhus to Aalborg. If that happens why not let the extra trains just run to Skejby Hospital. It would connect a crucial destination to all of northern jutland and offer more flexibility with trains from Aalborg switching between either end of the central stretch of the light rail, where trains are to run every few minutes.
And it would cost next to nothing. In fact it could save money long term by relieving pressure on the main station.

Rail in jutland is generally in an akward position currently. Money will be available for good projects but its difficult to define what this is or where or how to start. The only existing plan seems to be the hour-plan, where endless billions could be wasted on forcing down travel time between Aarhus and Odense for no other apparent reason than one hour having become good targets elsewhere.
 

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^^ Essentially, I agree; however, the railway line north of Århus looks like one from the 19th century (many curves, very eccentric towards the west, etc.): so, sooner or later, something must be done also there (and, of course, with a new railway to Randers, also a DSB city-tunnel through central Århus would make a lot of sense).
 

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The Aarhus-Randers railway from 1862 is the first railway built in Jutland, but I don't see any need for a new railway tunnel north, when the main railway traffic is going south.

What Aarhus needs is a railway cargo terminal for the new logistics park in Aarslev which isn't going to be expensive because the north railway line is passing right next to it. A future extension of the light rail from Løgten to the immediate suburbs like Rønde and further to Aarhus Airport and the tourist destination Ebeltoft and most importantly Denmark's first high speed railway crossing Kattegat to Copenhagen.
 

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^^ Essentially, I agree; however, the railway line north of Århus looks like one from the 19th century (many curves, very eccentric towards the west, etc.): so, sooner or later, something must be done also there (and, of course, with a new railway to Randers, also a DSB city-tunnel through central Århus would make a lot of sense).
well I think you underestimate the cost and difficulty of such a tunnel, which would not only have to be 5-6 kilometers long but would also need to negotiate some serious height differences in the hilly centre of Aarhus with its suspect underground soil. Its just way too expensive to be worth it, and I certainly cant see state funding of several billions be made available for a heavy rail project covering essentially the same traffic corridor as the light rail project.

My idea isnt likely to happen anytime soon either. What I think will happen is the possible light rail extension to hinnerup becoming reality and as the university, hospital and the rest of northern Århus grows, more and more trains will stop there linking up with the light rail. Its not too bad a solution either.

As for the state of the current railway, I agree, but its only really the stretch Hadsten- Randers that is worth fixing. South of Hadsten, i think you could probably spend a billion and save little more than a minute or two. But north of Hadsten it really should be straightened.
 

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The Aarhus-Randers railway from 1862 is the first railway built in Jutland, but I don't see any need for a new railway tunnel north, when the main railway traffic is going south.

What Aarhus needs is a railway cargo terminal for the new logistics park in Aarslev which isn't going to be expensive because the north railway line is passing right next to it. A future extension of the light rail from Løgten to the immediate suburbs like Rønde and further to Aarhus Airport and the tourist destination Ebeltoft and most importantly Denmark's first high speed railway crossing Kattegat to Copenhagen.
I disagree about the Kattegat connection for so many reasons. To mention just one of the factors least considered in that debate is the likely flexibility and efficiency of high speed ferries if and when energy gets cheaper again.

Grenå-Hundested would certainly re-open and with that hundreds of thousands of people in northern Aarhus/Djursland as well as northern zealand would probably get a closer link that way door to door rater than with the monstrously expensive fixed link which is only fast station to station.

But I agree about the løgten-Rønde-Tirstrup extension. That ought to be one of the first extensions of the light rail project.
 

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One of the interesting things is that the new Randersvej rail service is not expected to be faster than the existing buses, on the average, but it will be unaffected by rush hour traffic, and will run a bit more frequently. It should also have higher capacity, I suppose. The first three or four stops surround the central downtown area on three sides, then goes through the university, then goes through Skejby, an area with many apartment complexes, regional headquarters, and the biggest hospital. Just past that (and IKEA) is area where new housing is being developed (mainly single-unit) in what was agricultural land.
but busses would also not be affected by rush hour if they had their own bus lane. It does raise questions about what exactly the point of light rail is. Some of the proposed extensions seems downright bizarre to me, such as link to Randers, costing almost one billion but delivering a travel time of over one hour from station to station with few relevant stops north of Skejby.

Specifically on the stage one stretch it doesnt matter that its relatively slow. 18 minutes from the main station to Skejby past around 10-15 good stops is not bad but outside of the city it needs to speed up or it becomes somewhat irrelevant.
 

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Well, I think you underestimate the cost and difficulty of such a tunnel, which would not only have to be 5-6 kilometres long, but would also need to negotiate some serious height differences in the hilly centre of Aarhus, with its suspect underground soil. [...]
One could also think about another alternative: i.e., a new double-track main line from Århus H towards the north-east, along the tracks of the local railway to Grenå, from which it would diverge towards the north at the height of the Djursland motorway, and then proceeding approximately along the main motorway to Randers.

The line in the city would be in an artificial tunnel, and everything would probably be much less expensive and easy to build (at least, I think so...).

In the meantime, an interim solution - in order to avoid the "regression" (how does one say in English?) at Århus H - could be to make a triangular interconnection - à la TGV - in the place where the main lines to the north-west and the south diverge (at the beginning of Marselis Boulevard): thus, trains from Frederikshavn, etc. to Copenhagen wouldn't stop at Århus H (but they could maybe stop at Brabrand and/or Viby, à la parkway station), and the same Århus H would become a terminus for the main lines Århus-Copenhagen, etc.; of course, then, there would be the need for new trains Frederiskhavn-Århus H, in order to maintain the current level of service for the city centre. So, certainly not an optimal solution (the services need to be split), but perhaps a cost-effetive option for the immediate future. The Marselis triangle could also be useful as a bypass for goods trains.

(Ooops: sorry for the semi-OT; anyway, also this, in some way, is related to the local railways...)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
^^ I somehow agree about that, but the not At least, something has to be done at the Aarhus central, its small, and with a dead end, so trains has to pass the rails, cutting the capacity. I first thought of that line you talked about, along the Grenaa line, but i think it would be better to have one through the city, by doing that you would be able to make a line like the inner Copenhagen, i'm talking about Nørreport Station, making a large intersection, from which a whole new city would grow out of the suburb, that would happen independently if a station like that was in the area.

Thats just my high dream for that one. But something like that have to be done, if we're going to have HSR, because of the old curved tracks, we would need a new one, unless we end up with a 220 km/h HSR, which would be a scandal!
 
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