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Are you paying attention to the pictures you yourself posted or you like to make the same comments you make all the time. Look at those pictures... there is noting left to rebuild. It is only rubble... dirt and absolutely worthless. You can not rebuild everything. What is important is that they need to preserve the spirit of old Kerman in the new projects in the core of the city and not everywhere. For god sake we need some modern buildings that are useful for todays life also. You do not like aluminum buildings, fine I agree with you. But you can construct modern buildings without aluminum also.
 

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Who turned these to rubble ? They werent like this 50 years ago , there is nothing left because these HAVE beem destroyed
U seem to miss the root problem here

Keep the "old spirit" in new districts,
Why would u eve need to do that if the old core was all clean and well kept ?
We wouldnt even need to do that of our cities had their old areas and their identity in tact

We destroy old buildings and try to shove our identity in modern buildings to say "look this is our tradition" lol but then we keep destroying the actual traditional stuff

Its like cutting down a forest without a purpose and then planting trees on rooftops to somehow cope with the lack of greenery when u could of just kept the forests in the first place

Besided, it just looks bad
An old bazar surrounded by crappy ghooti kebrit apartments with no facade coordination

Look at images from isfahan or kerman or yazd and shiraz etc in the early 70s even earlier , u will see whole neighborhooda with old courtyard houses or old apartments filled with people living in them
They werent "rubble" back then


With that mentality we should flatten out persepolis too since its just rubble and ruins now and is worthless

All of our cities are "modern" in that term , hardly any building is over 30 years old
Infact, thats almost all we have
 

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These pictures you posted tell me that there are abandoned buildings for whatever reason. and in time they are deteriorated to rubble. No government will jump to rescue such places. It is up to their owners. No Government will commit a large sum of money to rebuild any house or building is abandoned. Here in the States there are towns and entire communities left to rut. Our society as a whole is responsible for these loses.
 

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^^ye sazmani has tuye in keshvar be name miras farhangi ke vazifsh ine.in mardomi ke man mibinam veleshun koni miran sotuna chelsotuanam bahash atish roshan mikonan!
there was a 700 year old saljugh era school in esfahan which had became the football playground of the neighborhood in rubble.It is renovated now and used that's the point of renovations if something is proper it doesn't need renovations so if it was up to you would you have destroyed that because it just doesnt look good?have you ever saw any before after pics of renovations?
 

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Im not specifically asking the government to rebuild them however they should suppport the cause
Which they wont since well....
Idealy, There should be laws made by the government that prohibits the change of architecutral styles in certain regions
So whoever builds there must build in the same manner and style that it was and keep the layouts as similar as possible to the originals

Urban decay in the states is one of the worst in the developed world, and it certainly shouldnt be a role model for iran
Not to mention these houses in kerman can be up to 200 years old or older where as the areas in the states are not as historically or architecurally valuable

Why not follow strict city laws similar to those in austria for example ?

Now we have to ask why was it that these places have been abandoned , reason is the massive shifts in the real estate market and land prices and the general economy
If our authorities had not encouraged to double the population within 20 years , which it did , many of these issues didnt happen
Land prices went up as the population increased dramatically, hence the land in inner city areas increased in value , and in almost everything else , food and utilities became expensive , stores and shops etc raised all their prices and all of a sudden the same people with normal lives in older houses now had large pressure on them
as the cities grew, newer areas were cheaper so many sold their old homes and moved out
Or , they kept on to them but were not able to renovate and keep the houses
So they became more and more ruined
Hence, rich builders buy these lands in the inner city areas and build apartments over the old houses and sell them at high prices to richer people (perfect example is esfahan) or , the city or more "social" builders come and try to break the land prices by making so many homes in the inner core that it will lower the cost of living there

The issues is that there is no plan to keep anything intact

Of the municipality cared , they could create laws for the builders on how to build and not build in the old areas
The buildings can keep their facades and be renovated or rebuilt structurally by the builders who build apartments, and be sold latee to richer groups of people who can afford them , or even have determined house prices from before and sell them at that price
Sure it wont have as much profit but when its the law it wi happen
And over time things will balance out
 

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I do not think fluctuation in land prices and overpopulation is the problem of Kirman. In fact Problem of cities like Kirman is depopulation in relative terms. The problems go back to the way the land reform of the 1960's took place, causing sudden population growth for cities like Tehran Isfahan and...due to their job opportunities and depression of agricultural communities like Kirman.
I agree that laws are necessary for regulating constructions, Don't you think that as long as such communities remain depressed of jobs and opportunities, laws and other red tapes will further discourage activities and thus deepens the problems?
 

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I do not think fluctuation in land prices and overpopulation is the problem of Kirman. In fact Problem of cities like Kirman is depopulation in relative terms. The problems go back to the way the land reform of the 1960's took place, causing sudden population growth for cities like Tehran Isfahan and...due to their job opportunities and depression of agricultural communities like Kirman.
I agree that laws are necessary for regulating constructions, Don't you think that as long as such communities remain depressed of jobs and opportunities, laws and other red tapes will further discourage activities and thus deepens the problems?
yes for kerman perhaps there was a stage of depopulation , but either way, the outcomes can be similar
however, almost all major urban centers have experienced unnatural growth, which harms nearly everything

well regarding laws, there must be a form of "support" economically and infra-structurally, there could be a backlash other wise

for architectural styling, i personally dont think it will make problems worse in such specific cases
imagine more rich people that used to live in certain districts to spread a bit and re-fill these old neighborhoods and live in the old houses
the people who have left the old homes (the original owners) usually live in newer districts
now, if we however keep local jobs in each district well nourished enough, the original owners would not have maybe even felt the need to move out and sell their house in the first place

lets use an example for tehran and almost all other cities (like kerman)
many of the owners of these old homes were people who worked nearby either in the bazar or had small shops or grocery stores or even worked in nearby offices that used to function normally
one of my relatives' neighbors in central tehran (a bit north of the bazar near marvi) used to have a grocery shop, and lived in an old 30s/40s apartment which was clean and well kept
ever since the mass import of cheap chinese/indian bulk foods and fruits by sepah and other authorities, the internal produce market crashed heavily, hence, certain shop owners that distributed local goods did not adapt to the market quickly, , like this man here, and lost massive amounts of profit in a short time , this caused over time to not be able to maintain his job (unless he would buy cheap products from foreign distributors) and not be able to maintain the house, hence, he sold the house at a high price (since land is expensive there) and moved probably to another area with all the money they made from the house
when i went to my relative's house, the house was no longer there and an apartment being built
demand for that land is high , and a 1 family house suddenly becomes an apartment for 10 families(units)and to break the price, they ask for cheaper rent or price/m2 since they will profit out of the higher number of units, compared to more "average areas" hence, they people that move in there usually are the working class
the reason he couldnt continue selling native products is that he had a share in various agricultural lands that produced his goods, but with the import of chinese stuff, the internal agriculture market has been heavily damaged
the apartment houses fairly average people (in terms of income), maybe a bit lower than most, but generally average
the building however is terrible, it loooks like a bland no-name brick wall
now what if they maintain the same old styling, but extend the floors a bit? that is what i mean by style regulation
prices might rise a bit , but nothing too bad
now this is just a single example
but similar things happen alot, and in radical forms
even my friends moved now, the same thing practically happened to them, although they still have their business there, they moved homes
their house wasnt really special but it was on expensive land

now we have to see if a law would perhaps worsen the situation
not really in my opinion, what i mainly ask from the municipalities is to regulate the apartment styles for places that have already been destroyed, and to keep the older buildings in place and to sell them for higher prices and try to target a different market
it is slow and takes lots of planning, but it is possible, and wont really worsen much
for example, if they stopped building 20 floor apartments in zaferaniyeh on top of old gardens in a tight alley (i.e municipality should create restrictions there), the market will natural shift a bit , and the demand of the more wealthy people could return back into the more historic parts of the city
that is if we still look at the land as a possible real estate hotbed
however, the current population can still remain there even with low prices, as long as the government and municipality, along with private builders support the restoration and regulation of architectural styles


i mean, idealy, if the economy and population growth was normal , this would not have even happened
but now that it has, it should be changed, maybe forcefully at start, but once the benefits are seen, it can be a positive change for our country


by styling, i mean something like this :
this is the moein oltojjar house in tehran, it is a single family house/apartment, and has been laying there for years
i think the owner sold it to the municipality ( not sure) but there has been no renovations due to the lack of money ("lack")
anyway, long story short, the house is waiting to be exited from the list of heritage sites so it can be smashed by some builder who will build an apartment on top of it similar to those behind it
at one point , all of those too looked like this
what i a asking is for the municipality to let them turn this building into a 5 story apartment but using the same facade and materials for the outside as its current state
its not that hard or expensive
and they can keep the first 2 floors for a museum or something
if they did this with other buildings, we would still have large parts of old tehran
now the same can be applied to yazd or kerman or esfahan (with their respective styles of course)
but this is only if they are desperately in need to sell or make money off of it
idealy keeping it the way it is is good (and renovating it)


although some parts of each city should truly stay organic and old styled like yazd and part of old esfahan since the houses are in a sense "estates" and cant be transformed to apartments but for the semi-old areas around the very old districts the same concept can be applied
 

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^^ye sazmani has tuye in keshvar be name miras farhangi ke vazifsh ine.in mardomi ke man mibinam veleshun koni miran sotuna chelsotuanam bahash atish roshan mikonan!
there was a 700 year old saljugh era school in esfahan which had became the football playground of the neighborhood in rubble.It is renovated now and used that's the point of renovations if something is proper it doesn't need renovations so if it was up to you would you have destroyed that because it just doesnt look good?have you ever saw any before after pics of renovations?
naame in madresaro midoonid? aksi azash hast? besiar didani bayad be cheshm biad
 

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verdict is out
nemidoonam chi begam
they will destroy many parts of old kerman since drug addicts live there !!! this is terrible
renovate them , sell them and remove the addicts, why destroy the city for some addicts? its like burning a whole garden to remove 5 weeds

these are all excuses to destroy iran's identity and culture

بافت تاریخی کرمان به جرم حضور معتادان اعدام می*شود!
حکم صادر شد؛
بافت تاریخی کرمان به جرم حضور معتادان اعدام می*شود!
تنها راهکار باقی مانده برای خانه های تاریخی کرمان ثبت اضطراری است که این منوط به آن است که درب دفتر ثبت مرکزی سازمان میراث فرهنگی باز شود. چرا که فرهاد نظری- مدیر کل دفتر ثبت- بارها اذعان کرده به دلیل ثبت بی*ضابطه در طول سال*های گذشته این کار در دولت یازدهم با احتیاط صورت می*گیرد.

داخلی آرشيو خبر ميراث فرهنگی
تاريخ : جمعه ۳ مرداد ۱۳۹۳ ساعت ۱۳:۱۳
مریم اطیابی- چندی است تخریب*ها در کرمان شدت گرفته است. تا آنجا که تخریب ۴۰ خانه در بافت تاریخی و گودبرداری*ها در حریم کاروانسرای وکیل و در محدوده بازار کرمان با چنگک*های بلدوزرهای شهرداری که قلب این زمین*ها را برای حفر بیش از ۱۲ متر از عمق آن نشانه رفته*اند، اعتراض بسیاری از دوستداران و کارشناسان میراث*فرهنگی را برانگیخته است. بارها و بارها تأکید شده که تخریب بافت تاریخی مصداق بارز جهالت تاریخی است چرا که دانستن تاریخ پیش از اسلام ایران مصداق عینی نداشته و براساس یافته*های باستان*شناسی یا شواهد کتبی و شفاهی تاریخی یا وجود برخی سازه*ها صورت می*گیرد، اما شناخت ایران پس از اسلام با وجود همین بافت*های تاریخی امکان*پذیر است چرا که این بافت*ها زنده*اند و حیات در آنها جریان دارد. اما ظاهراً این سخنان خریداری ندارد.


از سویی آنچه از دید مسئولان شهری مغفول مانده آن است که در بخش بافت تاریخی باید موضوعات را تفکیک کرد و زمانی که پای معتادان و دپو کردن زباله در محل این خانه*ها مطرح می*شود مقصر میراث فرهنگی نیست زیرا قطعا تاریخی بودن خانه*ها باعث رخ دادن چنین اتفاقاتی نشده بلکه متروکه شدن آنها باعث تجمع معتادان و محل تجمع زباله شده است.

شانس آوردیم!

حال پس از پی گیری*های رسانه*ای در حاشیه مراسم تودیع و معارفه رییس پژوهشگاه، محمدحسن طالبیان – معاون میراث فرهنگی - از روانه کردن گروهی از کارشناسان دفتر بناها و محوطه*های تاریخی به کرمان برای بررسی اوضاع خبر می*دهد. اما در عین حال یک کارشناس کرمانی که نخواست نامش فاش شود، توضیح می*دهد:« درمورد گودبرداری به عمق ۱۲ متر، اولین جلسه خاکبرداری در سال ۸۹ تشکیل شده و موضوع جدیدی نیست. صورت جلسات سالهای ۸۹ و۹۰ هنوز در دفتر موجود است. طرح ابتدایی در شورای فنی استان رد شده که پس از اصلاح، مجدداً در سال ۹۱ به تصویب رسیده است. این طرح متعلق به زمانی بوده که هر طرحی به شورای فنی مرکزی می*آمد و فرضاً اگر مالک می*خواست دو طبقه در بافت تاریخی بسازد، آقایان در معاونت میراث فرهنگی می*گفتند نه چهار طبقه بسازید! به همین خاطر شانس آوردیم طرح در همین استان بررسی شده و همینجا بدان اجازه ساخت دادند و هیچ کدام از اقدامات کنونی خارج از ضوابط نیست. اگر در آن زمان طرح به تهران آمده بود به جای ۷.۵ متر برای ۱۵ متر مجوز ساخت و ساز می*دادند!؟»

وردی که طلسم را باز می*کند

این سخنان در حالی عنوان می شود که دکتر پیروز حناچی - معاون شهرسازی و معماری وزارت راه و شهرسازی- بخشنامه*ای از سوی این وزراتخانه به اداره شهرسازی همه*ی استان*ها ابلاغ کرده که به موجب آن هر گونه ساخت و ساز در محدوده بافت*های تاریخی در جلسات کمیسون ماده ۵ باید نظر موافق میراث فرهنگی برای اقدام را داشته باشد، در غیر این صورت آن تصمیم اعتبار کارشناسی ندارد. اما نکته قابل تأمل آن است که وزارت راه و شهرسازی و میراث فرهنگی در حوزه*های تخصصی می*توانند دخالت کنند اما به دلیل مطرح شدن طرح جمع آوری معتادان، اراذل و اوباش تخریب خانه*های تاریخی کرمان جنبه امنیتی پیدا می*کند. چرا که بنا به تشخیص شورای امنیت و تأمین استان به دلیل تجمع معتادین، اراذل و اوباش در این بخش از بافت تاریخی و ایجاد ناامنی، این محدوده باید تخریب شود اتفاقی که در بافت تاریخی شیراز و.. نیز رخ داد.

از طرفی پیش از تخریب هر بنا در محدوده تاریخی، کارشناس استان باید نظر دهد. حال اگر این آثار ثبت نشده باشند، باید مرجعی مانند اداره میراث فرهنگی استان واجد ارزش بودن را تشخیص دهد. که مرجع ارزش*شناسی خاصی در این باره وجود ندارد یعنی کارشناس استان می*تواند تشخیص دهد بنا تاریخی است یا بالعکس، پس تنها راهکار باقی مانده ثبت اضطراری است که این منوط به آن است که درب دفتر ثبت مرکزی سازمان میراث فرهنگی باز شود. چرا که فرهاد نظری- مدیر کل دفتر ثبت- بارها اذعان کرده به دلیل ثبت بی*ضابطه در طول سال*های گذشته این کار در دولت یازدهم با احتیاط صورت می*گیرد.

اماکارشناسان دفتر بناها بافت ها و محوطه های تاریخی سازمان میراث فرهنگی چه راهکاری ارائه داده اند؟ آیا آنها توانسته اند از این خانه ها بازدید کنند؟ ایا توانسته اند مسئولان استانی را در مورد پیشگیری از تخریب بافت تاریخی قانع کنند؟ و آیا توانستند مسئولان میراث فرهنگی استان کرمان را برای ثبت اضطراری خانه ها مجاب کنند؟پیش از این مسعود سلطانی*فر- رییس سازمان میراث فرهنگی- همچنین محمدحسن طالبیان- معاون میراث فرهنگی- در جمع خبرنگاران اعلام کرده بودند در صورت نیاز، برای حفظ خانه*های تاریخی دستور ثبت اضطراری صادر خواهد شد.

فاجعه چیست؟

اما اینک با اعلام خبری از سوی یکی از رسانه ها مبنی بر این که «معاون میراث فرهنگی و معاون پارلمانی و استان های سازمان میراث فرهنگی، گردشگری و صنایع دستی هفته آینده برای بررسی بافت تاریخی تخریب شده کرمان، به این استان سفر خواهند کرد.» تخریبهای بافت تاریخی کرمان شکل و رنگ جدیدی به خود گرفته است. و احساس می شود شاید گزارش کارشناسان دفتر بناها و محوطه های تاریخی خبر از اوضاع وخیمتری می دهد که معاونت میراث فرهنگی خود راهی کرمان می شود و شاید این اوضاع بیش از پیش این نکته را یادآور شود که انتخاب مدیر متخصص برای مسند ریاست چه اهمیتی می تواند داشته باشد چرا که نکته قابل تأمل در رویدادهای اخیر کرمان آن است که «علی مهاجری» مدیر کل اداره میراث*فرهنگی استان کرمان و شهردار اسبق کرمان که به نظر می*رسد همچنان احساس می*کند هنوز در شهرداری است، پیش از این در گفت و گو با رسانه*ها اعلام کرده است: « بسیاری از این خانه*ها متعلق به مردم هستند که هم*اکنون رها شده و تبدیل به محلی برای تجمع معتادان شده*اند از این رو تخریب این خانه*ها به*هیچ وجه فاجعه نیست!»


http://honarnews.com/vdcdxo05.yt0sj6a22y.html
 

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Very beautiful!Imagine if the whole bushehr and bandar abbas old areas renovated like this how more beautiful these cities will turn out.so different from rest of Iran.
 

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Another great achievement by I.R
the house of fathali shah's daughter was destroyed in shiraz some days ago.





ویران کردن تاریخ در شیراز

خانه پورنواب، متعلق به دختر فتحعلی شاه علیرغم وجود مقاومت*های قانونی و تکلیفی با ضرب و جرح جمعی از دوستداران و اعضای یگان حفاظت میراث فرهنگی تخریب شد. چند روزی است که لودرها برای اجرای طرح "توسعه بین*الحرمین" به جان خانه*های تاریخی در محله اسکندری شیراز (پشت شاهچراغ) افتاده*اند و تنها در یک شب پنج عمارت تاریخی را تخریب کردند.​
 
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