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This is not a criticism of Canada, from where I am, Canada is very much the country that has done everything right, it has an impressive GDP per Capita, and yet still manages to maintain public services, second largest geographical nation in the world, is generally held very highly by most countries, a welcoming attitude to foreigners, a lack of arrogance, and it seems to regularly top the UN Development Chart as one of the most desirable places to live. You have to work incredibly hard to find Anti-Canadian Sentiment, with a single exception, in Canada.

Canada itself seems at best to be uneasy with itself, and at worst despise itself. Quebec as a seperatist movement is probably the best known anywhere in the Western World, yet what surprised me was learning how fast the movement expanded, from the space of just a few years you had a fringe movement go into provincial government, while there may be language issues Canada seems to have dealt with this admirably, yet this is probably one of the few differences between Quebec and ROC, ethnically you are both diverse, and neither Quebecois nor English Canadians, can claim that a vast majority of their number comes from the original forgers of the tongues of the languages.

I have also been reading about the Seperation Party of Alberta, and their plans to field a whole line up of candidates in the provincial election, for seemingly no other reason than the rest of Canada does not vote the way they like. Now Albertans feel free to correct me but I am under the impression that the culture here whilst slightly more conservative politically differs little from the cultural practices in other parts of Canada. I realise Alberta is no Quebec, yet, but it does seem that these movements take only a relatively short time to grow, yet in many European Countries where there are far older divides and greater variety in the internal culture, you don't see the level of seperatism in Quebec, or if you do it has grown far more slowly, under far worse conditions than those in Canada.

Is this rapid spread of disunity largely because there is not a Canadian Identity? Looking at just the West. European Countries have distinct and often ancient cultures - and it is the ones that don't like Belguim, a relatively recent construct which have the hardest problems - based on language and ethnicity, but also on circumstances that forged a loose connection of tribes into a people and then on to a nation. America has its revolution and its myths, which regardless of the questionable truth are undoubtedly an important part of a very strong identity. Australia has its isolation. What does Canada have that makes it uniquely Canadian?
 

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Welcome to the Rail World
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Things were good, things used to be pretty good indeed. Times unfortunately change. I'm glad I'm not in Canada at the moment, because it's on a rollercoaster to disaster as far as the perspective from my hometown is concerned.
 

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Lostboy said:
Canada itself seems at best to be uneasy with itself, and at worst despise itself. Quebec as a seperatist movement is probably the best known anywhere in the Western World, yet what surprised me was learning how fast the movement expanded, from the space of just a few years you had a fringe movement go into provincial government, while there may be language issues Canada seems to have dealt with this admirably, yet this is probably one of the few differences between Quebec and ROC, ethnically you are both diverse, and neither Quebecois nor English Canadians, can claim that a vast majority of their number comes from the original forgers of the tongues of the languages.
Quebec is a complex issue, one which is impossible to explain in a few (or even many) lines in a forum. As for others, however...


Lostboy said:
I have also been reading about the Seperation Party of Alberta, and their plans to field a whole line up of candidates in the provincial election, for seemingly no other reason than the rest of Canada does not vote the way they like. Now Albertans feel free to correct me but I am under the impression that the culture here whilst slightly more conservative politically differs little from the cultural practices in other parts of Canada. I realise Alberta is no Quebec, yet, but it does seem that these movements take only a relatively short time to grow, yet in many European Countries where there are far older divides and greater variety in the internal culture, you don't see the level of seperatism in Quebec, or if you do it has grown far more slowly, under far worse conditions than those in Canada.
While Europe indeed has far older grievances, it doesn't have the problem of vast geography. Furthermore, there are very few European countries that are as decentralized as Canada, and those that are (or are even more so) are generally very small countries with strong communities. So, it's a problem.

On the other hand, Alberta's separation is nowhere near the crisis stage as of yet. In fact, the idea was never seriously toyed with, although a possible provincial firewall from the rest of Canada was seriously considered at one point (and by the people that are now leading the federal opposition no less!).

Just like anywhere else, the people can be worked into frenzy levels from time to time. As a whole, the country, outside of Quebec, is relatively stable:

http://www.statcan.ca/english/kits/pdf/social/perceptions.pdf


Lostboy said:
Is this rapid spread of disunity largely because there is not a Canadian Identity? Looking at just the West. European Countries have distinct and often ancient cultures - and it is the ones that don't like Belguim, a relatively recent construct which have the hardest problems - based on language and ethnicity, but also on circumstances that forged a loose connection of tribes into a people and then on to a nation. America has its revolution and its myths, which regardless of the questionable truth are undoubtedly an important part of a very strong identity. Australia has its isolation. What does Canada have that makes it uniquely Canadian?
It's a question journalists love to waste their time over. There is little doubt that there is a Canadian identity, but it is much more subdued. There's no chest thumping, in general. You won't find every second car with a Canadian flag, and everyone wearing a Canadian flag T-shirt. I mean, it's not like you don't see that from time to time, but it's rare. In general, our patriotism stems from less specific feelings, which are largely based on what you outlined in the beginning:


Lostboy said:
This is not a criticism of Canada, from where I am, Canada is very much the country that has done everything right, it has an impressive GDP per Capita, and yet still manages to maintain public services, second largest geographical nation in the world, is generally held very highly by most countries, a welcoming attitude to foreigners, a lack of arrogance, and it seems to regularly top the UN Development Chart as one of the most desirable places to live.
This is what we take pride in, but we're not quite as vocal about it -- usually, that is: nothing like watching Canadians abroad--suddenly, they're much more vocal about their patriotism than they are back at home.
 

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No, here in London, I can't miss a Canadian without a big Maple Leaf flag sewn to their backpack. Maybe it's so they don't mistak them for Americans? But for a country of its size, it's a pretty strong identity (or anti-identity of non-Americanism?).
 

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I thought being Canadian meant being anti American?
 

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I would like to think our identity is complex, not weak. Geography has really played a part in splitting us up though. It is difficult to point to one thing and say that is our identity.
 

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Add in multiculturalism and bilangualism into this.
 

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TreeBeard said:
I thought being Canadian meant being anti American?
I hear this often, but considering the fact that almost twice the number of Canadians (%-wise) see Americans as their #1 friends than the other way around, we should let this one rest... A completely different political system, with very different political (and thus cultural) values should be another clue. We do have a similar identity, though, in the sense that we accept someone as 'Canadian' regardless of whether they were born here or call Canada their home by choice. Try that in much of Europe... Even if you have their citizenship, you won't often be considered one of them.

Plumber73 said:
I would like to think our identity is complex, not weak. Geography has really played a part in splitting us up though. It is difficult to point to one thing and say that is our identity.
:cheers:
 

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lolwut
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i think people think to much, need to shut up support there country, instead all they think only of them selves and what they think is best, i cant stand anybody who thinks canada doesnt have an identity and thinks the up tons of bullshit like seperation because its "how they feel" rather then what makes more logical sence. I think one of the biggest problems is that Canadians dont know what a fucking amazing country we live in, i can say we live in the best country in the world i truley believe it, sure if i wanted to be richer id move to Luxemburg (but that would suck..no offence luxemburg i just like big cities and vast areas) or the U.S..but then there is the crime and the dirty cities and arogent people and there is something that i dotn like like in just abotu every country. To me Canada is the perfect balance of everything, it may not have the best of everything but it has a good balance that no county can match IMO.

I know allot of Canadians who should be forced to live in a thirld world country for a couple months maybe even a year, they would be crying and begging to have Canada back, people need to stop fucking taking this country for granted and realise how lucky they are to live here, i mean less then 1% of everbody in the world is a Canadian, that means anybody who is a canadian is one of a few (32,500,000 <--a few lol) lucky persons that actually get to live in this huge amazing rich ass beautifull country. It makes me sick to think there are idiots out there actually complaining about this country and wanting to seperate and case more tension.
 

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I dont think so, on the contrary, I think that canadian people hava an strong identity that make them act very polite in any moment with anyone. What I mean is that many times people believe that those countries that have a bunch of arrogant jackass have a strong identity and those who act vey polite are weak, however, that is what makes canadian people unique and special.
 

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Mouses said:
I dont think so, on the contrary, I think that canadian people hava an strong identity that make them act very polite in any moment with anyone. What I mean is that many times people believe that those countries that have a bunch of arrogant jackass have a strong identity and those who act vey polite are weak, however, that is what makes canadian people unique and special.
I see what you mean by people thinking people who arent incredibly patriotic or have a really strong sense of identity are weak, its almost like the saying "nice guys always finish last" but i know from experience that in the short term most of the time they do yes, but in the long run they come out on top.
 

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The only time Canadians make a point of telling the world where they are from is when they want to be distinguished from Americans. Otherwise, I don't know that the Canadian identity is weak or strong...I have seen little evidence to believe that outside of geography the people give their identity much thought around here. I've never been able to put my finger on what it supposedly is to be Canadian in the first place. I think our identity needs some serious development personally.
 

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Canada has a strong identity not only culturaly but also ethnically and linguistically.
Canadians pride themselves on being amongst the most tolerant and liberal socitites on the planet.
Yes, Canadians bitch about the Americans but not because we don't like Americans individually but their socities values in general.
A great many Canadian doctors and nurses go to the states to make more money and less taxes but 83% come back within 5 years due to disliking the US values and lifestlyes. 92% arrive back within 10 years.
Canadians also greatly find the idea of "might is right" that the US uses as repugnant.
Canadaians are consensus builders..as the old joke goes, why did the Canadian cross the road......to get to the middle.
Canadians do three thing better than any country on the planet,...........talk about hockey, complain about the weather, and bitch about the Americans, and NOT in that order.
 

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IMHO Canadian Identity is quite sad nowadays. It is simply built around distinguishing ourselves from Americans. Isn't it a bad day when you have to rely on your neighbour to be able to tell who you are?!?
 

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Much of Canada's so-called identity is based on myth and the extent to which we care about particular issues/values only goes so far as to be able to juxtapose ourselves to Americans--however often wrong we are about Americans and ourselves.

If it's crime/poverty, humanitarianism/foreign aid, peacekeeping, charity/volunteerism/philanthropy at home, healthcare and even including environmental practices, Canadians in general often way-way-way over estimate their country and its status in the world when they have nothing particularly worthwhile being very proud about vis-a-vis European nations and even the United States.

We sure shouldn't be staking Canadian "values" on our decrepit public healthcare system for example, which we share with only the likes of Cuba and North Korea in the world, which pretty much means we're indifferent to peoples' suffering, but so long as we suffer "equally" ... when in fact Canadians often resort to the U.S. and when Canada's healthcare results falls way down the rank when compared to "socialist" European nations which allow for a parallel private system.

Canada's got a good quality of life, a good place to live in general, like so many other countries, but it's hardly worth a maple leaf tattoo or a flag on my backpack because precisely who and why should anyone be impressed by that?
 

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Brian In Lon. Ont. said:
If it's crime/poverty, humanitarianism/foreign aid, peacekeeping, charity/volunteerism/philanthropy at home, healthcare and even including environmental practices, Canadians in general often way-way-way over estimate their country and its status in the world when they have nothing particularly worthwhile being very proud about vis-a-vis European nations and even the United States.
Cool, that actually means there is a Canadian identity. To underestimate would spell trouble, or termination of Canada.


Brian In Lon. Ont. said:
We sure shouldn't be staking Canadian "values" on our decrepit public healthcare system for example, which we share with only the likes of Cuba and North Korea in the world, which pretty much means we're indifferent to peoples' suffering, but so long as we suffer "equally" ... when in fact Canadians often resort to the U.S. and when Canada's healthcare results falls way down the rank when compared to "socialist" European nations which allow for a parallel private system.
In terms of cost effectiveness, or how much bang for the buck, it doesn't get much better than Cuba... I only wish Canada was as innovative, and would treat preventative medicine with seriousness it deserves. Canada's healthcare does not fall way down the rank when compared to European nations -- it does for some, not for others.

And I'm all for a parallel system, as long as the doctors are salaried, or hard capped like they are in those European socialist nations. Since the medical lobby is obviously too strong, and we live next to a country that can pay doctors more, this won't happen.
 
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