Skyscraper City Forum banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,703 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Biden: 'Name one innovative product' from China
Posted by CNN's Ashley Killough
May 28th, 2014 02:48 PM ET


(CNN) - Vice President Joe Biden blasted China on Wednesday in a speech about foreign policy, arguing the country hasn't produced anything innovative.

"China-and it's true - is graduating six to eight times as many scientists and engineers as we have. But I challenge you, name me one innovative project, one innovative change, one innovative product that has come out of China," the vice president said forcefully.

His comments came in a commencement ceremony at the U.S. Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. The vice president stressed that the country's record on human rights has stymied its progress on other fronts, like innovation.

........................................

I challenge you too! :)

Name me one innovative project, one innovative change, one innovative product that has come out of China.
In the modern time, not the past.
 

·
pooh bear
Joined
·
7,788 Posts
E-cigs, Broad Sustainable Building, delivery drones, Xiaomi, China Railway High-Speed, some of the highest buildings in the world, tons of innovative architecture of many types, very well planned cities, innovative political structure, the list goes on, and on, and on
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
1. China was the first country that has used 'auto-correction technology' in soft moon landing;
2. CIT500 - potentially the world's fastest train that's capable of running at over 600 km/h;
3. China has the world's fastest super-computer, and is currently looking to build a much more powerful one (the project has recently begun)
... ... the list goes on
 

·
City Reformist
Joined
·
5,263 Posts
China has just recently waking up from her long sleep (started to open door in 1979)... I do think we have to give much more time. It's not even developed yet!

It's impressive how fast China is trying to catch up... China has surpassed Indonesia by far margin in every aspect.

Indonesia still dreaming to go out of space, hold Olympic, build high speed train, creating super computer, launch its own satellite, having its own internet search engine, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
They're world leaders in material science, quantum information and genomics. Check any citations index or some recent papers in Nature and Science.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
It depends on what exactly you mean by 'innovation'. There are several so-called 'innovative' coming out of China, though we probably won't see some revolutionary cancer/AIDS curing time-machine like innovations coming out of China any time soon, these things immediately come to my mind when discussing Chinese innovation in modern world:

1. OPPO N1. Yes, rotating camera on a phone was not new, but with camera becoming more and more integral to the whole smartphone experience, you would think that it's obvious to take advantage of the main camera also as a front shooter, but OPPO came with the first ever SMARTphone to sport a rotating camera, which equalized the quality of both front and rear camera, and also the fact that they only need one camera rather than usual two on a phone. The N1 also came with several other innovative features such as the O'Click and back touch panel.

2. The auto-corrective landing mechanism of Chang'e 3. Yes Yutu could've done a bit better, and it was a bit dissapointing from scientific perspective that Yutu has lost its her mobility after only two lunar nights (out of the expected three). But from engineering point-of-view, Chang'e 3 represented a major milestone in Chinese space industry. I think eventually the Chinese (along with the Americans and the Indians) would be at the forefront of space exploration.

3. Someone mentioned Xiaomi, and I agree, though probably not necessarily from technological perspective. Yes, it is true they do have awesome phones, but what's innovative from Xiaomi is the by the way the company is conducting itself. They are a very new company, yet are selling phones nearly at cost! Their flagship phones have the specs of the latest Samsung and LG, but at a fraction of the cost, and yet, unlike the Nexus program, they are actually making profit! Yes, they are often times in supply shortage, but it didn't stop them from shipping millions of phones in 2012 and also in 2013, and they are targetting to sell as many as 50 million smartphones this year!


Keep in mind, though, to always put things in perspective. When it comes to GDP per capita based on parity of purchasing power, China now roughly has the level of the United States from 100 years ago, trailing the Japanese by about 50 to 60 years, and is behind the Koreans and the Taiwanese by about 40 years. It's only about a couple of years ahead of Indonesia, and maybe 5-10 years ahead of India (both of these countries too are developing really fast; in the early 1990s, both India and Indonesia had higher GDP per capita than China). Everything needs time and improvements can't happen overnight. I think they will get there eventually.
 

·
真的好听
Joined
·
784 Posts
A Chinese construction company is building houses that can be mass-produced using a 3D printer. Using a mixture of cement and construction waste, the houses can be produced for under $5,000 (£2,970). The walls and structure of the house are printed layer by layer using a process that allows up to 10 complete houses to be printed in one day.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
771 Posts
It is nice that many detractors are picking on China. This only shows they are insecure about the rapid rise of China. China must doing something right that scared those anti-Chinese elements into chaos.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
771 Posts
Keep in mind, though, to always put things in perspective. When it comes to GDP per capita based on parity of purchasing power, China now roughly has the level of the United States from 100 years ago, trailing the Japanese by about 50 to 60 years, and is behind the Koreans and the Taiwanese by about 40 years. It's only about a couple of years ahead of Indonesia, and maybe 5-10 years ahead of India (both of these countries too are developing really fast; in the early 1990s, both India and Indonesia had higher GDP per capita than China). Everything needs time and improvements can't happen overnight. I think they will get there eventually.
What do you mean China GDP is only 5-10 yrs ahead of India? India per capita GDP is only about US$1500. There is no way they will quadruple their GDP in 5-10 yrs to catch up with today's China GDP. Indonesia's per capital GDP is about $3500. There is no way they will double their GDP in 5 yrs to catch up with today's China GDP. All your other GDP calculations are grossly inaccurate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
What do you mean China GDP is only 5-10 yrs ahead of India? India per capita GDP is only about US$1500. There is no way they will quadruple their GDP in 5-10 yrs to catch up with today's China GDP. Indonesia's per capital GDP is about $3500. There is no way they will double their GDP in 5 yrs to catch up with today's China GDP. All your other GDP calculations are grossly inaccurate.
Okay, I may have exaggerated, but a simple Wikipedia research would reveal that, in terms of PPP Per Capita, after (roughly) taking into account inflation, China's current PPP Per Capita (~9,800) was roughly the level of Taiwan in 1980 (10,026 in current dollars), or South Korea in 1986 (10,222.90).

I don't readily have the figure for Japan, but in 1973, Japan was already in the 18000s in terms of 2010 US$. If we were to extrapolate, Japan probably reached 10k (in 2010 US$) between 1960-1965, or to put it differently, Japan reached the level China is about 50 years ago.

And the US reached the level of current day's China (~9,800) roughly in 1912, or over a century ago

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2014/04/on-a-per-capita-basis-the-us-is-still-a-century-ahead-of-china/

In nominal terms, it's even further behind. The US reached the level of ~6,700 (after adjusting for inflation) roughly back in 1882. Despite impressive growth within the last 30 years, in terms of per capita, China still has a long way to catch up.

Compared with other developing nations, China was behind India, Indonesia and Pakistan as recently as 1990. It wasn't until 1991 that China surpassed India, 1997 Pakistan, and 2001 Indonesia. In PPP terms, after taking into account inflation, China surpassed the level of the current level of Indonesia back in 2006 (less than 10 years ago), and India in 2004 (10 years ago).

The recent world bank adjustment for PPP would probably revise Indonesia's and India's values more upward than the Chinese figure, so I think it's safe to say that the current levels of India and Indonesia PPP per capita levels were matched by China less than 10 years ago.

I'm not in any way implying that Indonesia and India can match China's current level in less than 10 years, but simply stating an observation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
serious?

Keep in mind, though, to always put things in perspective. When it comes to GDP per capita based on parity of purchasing power, China now roughly has the level of the United States from 100 years ago, trailing the Japanese by about 50 to 60 years, and is behind the Koreans and the Taiwanese by about 40 years. It's only about a couple of years ahead of Indonesia, and maybe 5-10 years ahead of India (both of these countries too are developing really fast; in the early 1990s, both India and Indonesia had higher GDP per capita than China). Everything needs time and improvements can't happen overnight. I think they will get there eventually.
You're not serious, right? LOL. Japanese is 40 to 50 years behind the Americans? Korea and Taiwan are 60 years behind Americans? LOL And India is only 5- 10 years behind China? You've never been to any of those places haven't you, especially Japan? I'm surprise you haven't mentioned Russia, you know the sputnik country. You don't measure a country's inventiveness based purely on GDP per capita. If that was the case, Americans would be behind singapore, qatar, brunei. and even macau. LOL Sure China will take some time to catch up with the rest of the developed world, but not 100, 60 , or even 40 years, but less than 20. Btw, see what the Chinese accomplished in just 20 years: http://www.theatlantic.com/business...e-of-the-day-shanghai-in-1990-and-2010/69959/ Oh, as for recent Chinese innovations, try this one: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/h...sinin-gets-the-prize.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
The most advanced and sophisticated internet censorship apparatus in the world.
Since the Americans have the most advanced and sophisticated surveillance (PRISM) program, I wouldn't be surprise if that honor goes to the US of A. Here are some more recent innovations: Chinese scientists reprogrammed stem cells using only chemical processes http://www.nature.com/news/stem-cells-reprogrammed-using-chemicals-alone-1.13416 Chinese chemists pioneer water-jet printing http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2014-02/17/content_17287021.htm Chinese scientists develops flexible fire resistant paper http://www.decodedscience.com/flexible-fire-resistant-paper/41797 Chinese researchers create new spiky material to remove 99% of oil from water. There are plenty more, but these will suffice to show that old Joe Biden isn't called foot in mouth Joe for nothing.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,539 Posts
Here is the main difference.

The fact that China gets so defensive about it shows that China is not as innovative as it should be. If Li Keqiang said the same thing about America we would just laugh it off. As with most Chinese criticism of the USA.

Let's just take the music industry in China. The largest population in the world, and some tiny disputed island, and a former British colony have a 50% market share in the Chinese music industry. What the hell.

I'm not saying that China is not innovative, there are some innovations coming out of China, like Weixin, which is unmatched in America. But the Chinese system and pervading culture is not the best environment for true innovation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Here is the main difference.

The fact that China gets so defensive about it shows that China is not as innovative as it should be. If Li Keqiang said the same thing about America we would just laugh it off. As with most Chinese criticism of the USA.

Let's just take the music industry in China. The largest population in the world, and some tiny disputed island, and a former British colony have a 50% market share in the Chinese music industry. What the hell.

I'm not saying that China is not innovative, there are some innovations coming out of China, like Weixin, which is unmatched in America. But the Chinese system and pervading culture is not the best environment for true innovation.
This topic is about proving foot in mouth Joe Biden is wrong, and not about what environment is conducive to innovation. Btw, what is a " true innovation"? Who's to say what "true innovation" is? The Americans? LOL As define by wiki: " Innovation is about finding a better way of doing something. Innovation can be viewed as the application of better solutions that meet new requirements, in-articulated needs, or existing market needs. This is accomplished through more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are readily available to markets, governments and society." Many of the Chinese products fulfilled that exact definition. One example is the hybrid rice. Yuan Longping, the "Father of Hybrid Rice", is credited with helping the country increase its rice yields, which are among the highest within Asia. His technique is currently been studied and used by many countries where arable land are scarce. Another one is the fastest computer in the world. Although it still uses Intel chips, China managed to develop its own interconnections, operating system, front-end processors and software, which contributed immensely to the computer's speed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
771 Posts
Here is the main difference.

The fact that China gets so defensive about it shows that China is not as innovative as it should be. If Li Keqiang said the same thing about America we would just laugh it off. As with most Chinese criticism of the USA.

Let's just take the music industry in China. The largest population in the world, and some tiny disputed island, and a former British colony have a 50% market share in the Chinese music industry. What the hell.

I'm not saying that China is not innovative, there are some innovations coming out of China, like Weixin, which is unmatched in America. But the Chinese system and pervading culture is not the best environment for true innovation.
Few people in China even cares what the Americans said about China. The US now feels insecure and uneasy about China's rapid rise. That is why they are bashing and smearing China whenever they can. Normally, you don't bash someone who is far behind you. They fear China will overtake them sooner than expected. The more bashing from the detractors, the better for China. This shows you China is doing a great job and the haters are feeling uneasy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
669 Posts
innovative is a buzz word that doesn't have any real meaning of itself, just like creative or synergistic. Does it mean technology, music, or a cat video? In the end of the day it's just come down to personal opinion.

What we need a quantifiable measure that actually mean any thing. A IP created in the last 15 years that generate the most revenue. Let's find out. Though, I have a feeling it probably some obscure chemical product that no one know about for China, and some unknown algorithm for the US. though E cigarette is probably up there...
http://inventors.about.com/od/estartinventions/a/Electronic-Cigarettes.htm

Setting that aside, personally I think the following is innovative

-Alibaba's no sales commission and make money in services model is pretty "innovative", it allowed China's online retail market to grow far exceed expectations and give alibaba a profit margin in 40% range while amazon and ebay are in the low teens. Basically taobao have Amazon's ease of use, selection and marketing control while not having to operate huge warehouse or delivery infrastructure.

-QQ's Q-coin c.a. 2007. This is way before bitcoins and before government banning it from use outside of QQ's universe. There was a time when Q-coins have exchange to real world RMB, and was the primary medium of exchange for online transactions. However, government banned from in used in that manner, since no one other than central bank can issue real money, fears that it might used for money laundering. So Q-coins end up only being able to purchase QQ items. The same thing is only happened in the US more than 7 years later with bitcoins.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/HL05Cb01.html
http://seekingalpha.com/article/24227-chinas-virtual-e-commerce-currency


Let's just take the music industry in China. The largest population in the world, and some tiny disputed island, and a former British colony have a 50% market share in the Chinese music industry. What the hell.
Care to give a source for that? I can't see how any statistics can be obtained about China's music industry given how it is structured (money are made at concerts at TV appearances rather than selling records and Radio. Since nobody buys music or listens to the radio in China) and how music is distributed (qq music, kugou, ttpod). Especially since something like this has been topping the download and share charts for almost a month now, and I don't think chopstick bro even had a record deal even though they had at least 3 hits now. They only distribute their music online.

Little apple... warning the video is not for the faint of heart or culture elitist.

as of 8/16/2014, it's still top of the baidu mp3 singles charts, and only HK/TW artist in the top 10 is G.E.M. from hong kong (@#3), the rest are from mainland. (personally, out of top 10 that I only like is 山水之间 by Xu Song (@#5) the Tiny Times theme song by Yisa Yu. Even though Tiny Times is a terrible movie)
http://music.baidu.com/top/dayhot
山水之间 by Xu Song

Tiny Times theme song by Yisa Yu been on the top 10 for almost a year now.

However, if it's 5 years ago at the height of the jay chuo-jolin era, I would have give you that. However, much has changed since. (in the eye of big city elitist for the worst. but then most Chinese don't live in Beijing or Shanghai and they have very different tastes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,703 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
...........................


Keep in mind, though, to always put things in perspective. When it comes to GDP per capita based on parity of purchasing power, China now roughly has the level of the United States from 100 years ago, trailing the Japanese by about 50 to 60 years, and is behind the Koreans and the Taiwanese by about 40 years. It's only about a couple of years ahead of Indonesia, and maybe 5-10 years ahead of India (both of these countries too are developing really fast; in the early 1990s, both India and Indonesia had higher GDP per capita than China). Everything needs time and improvements can't happen overnight. I think they will get there eventually.
When it come to PPP GDP per capita...

But I think, in the society level, the mentality of the people, the different between China and US is beyond than just 100 years.

100 years ago in US there innovation in many things that changed the face of the world dramatically. From electricity, radio, automobile, airplane, etc.


Today, despite of consuming a lot of hi-tech product like mobile phone. Not even a Chinese in China able to change the world like US did 100 years ago.

Whatever, the people have a brain as hard as rock. Nor the people mentality always avoiding the use of technology to solve today everyday problem. Nor the society always to reject and take down for a new idea and technology purposed by someone in the country.

Like for example, if there's a dirt on Chinese highway, what is Chinese reaction to it? Invent an automation robot to clean it? Invent a new material for the road that easy to be cleaned? The society and government hugely support and encourage it?

Or deploy some cheap cleaning worker to clean it? Like what people always do in the past.

Or instead of cleaning it, the entire country is questioning back, about whatever dirt in the highway is a problem or not? Asked the insanity of the questioner who insanely ask about cleaning dirt on the highway that always dirty all the time?


Why do Chinese people drive a car when they can ride a horse and cow? Because foreigner drive a car, to save face, so Chinese will drive a car too.

If foreigner doesn't drive a car. Why should a Chinese bother enough to invent a car anyway? Now, the entire Chinese people, are questioning back the insanity of the person who asked Chinese people to invent a car!


Because of this backward mentality, no one consider China as innovative country.




.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
569 Posts
Here is the main difference.

The fact that China gets so defensive about it shows that China is not as innovative as it should be. If Li Keqiang said the same thing about America we would just laugh it off. As with most Chinese criticism of the USA.

Let's just take the music industry in China. The largest population in the world, and some tiny disputed island, and a former British colony have a 50% market share in the Chinese music industry. What the hell.

I'm not saying that China is not innovative, there are some innovations coming out of China, like Weixin, which is unmatched in America. But the Chinese system and pervading culture is not the best environment for true innovation.

I agree. It's still a developing market, and the gov't still holds a lot of control over things, and these factors certainly limit the growth of creativity and innovation.

However that being said I have a strong feeling that China is going to prove Biden (and most Americans/Europeans) wrong in 10-20 years.

From what I can remember, China was still very very poor 14 years ago (income level was probably about half of today's), and there certainly weren't anything innovative coming out of China except for dollar store pens and socks. 14 years later, there are ZTE, Huawei (top telecom engineering corp.), Weixin (my Brazilian ex told me it's the no.1 communication app even in countries as far as Brazil), Alibaba, BYD (selling electric busses to California), indie cellphone brands like Xiaomi and One Plus One, and a bunch of cheap Chinese auto brands which made their way into New Zealand (Chery, Geely, Foton, and Great Wall). There isn't another developing country that has this much influence in the world in terms of innovation and international brands.

Most people today still think China only knows how to copy others and make poor quality knock offs, but I think that's going to change soon. I remember how people were laughing at Korean brands 20 years ago, and look at what made in Korea means now (Japanese brands as well back in the 70s). China is clearly in a transition period of moving away from labour intensive light manufacturing (low tech, socks shoes etc., to bring people out of extreme poverty) to a research and development oriented high tech economy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
569 Posts
Like for example, if there's a dirt on Chinese highway, what is Chinese reaction to it? Invent an automation robot to clean it? Invent a new material for the road that easy to be cleaned? The society and government hugely support and encourage it?

Or deploy some cheap cleaning worker to clean it? Like what people always do in the past.

Or instead of cleaning it, the entire country is questioning back, about whatever dirt in the highway is a problem or not? Asked the insanity of the questioner who insanely ask about cleaning dirt on the highway that always dirty all the time?


Why do Chinese people drive a car when they can ride a horse and cow? Because foreigner drive a car, to save face, so Chinese will drive a car too.

If foreigner doesn't drive a car. Why should a Chinese bother enough to invent a car anyway? Now, the entire Chinese people, are questioning back the insanity of the person who asked Chinese people to invent a car!


Because of this backward mentality, no one consider China as innovative country.

.


That's not true, because things like gun powder, guns, rockets, land mines, marine mines, and cannons were all invented by the Chinese. How to travel light and not have to carry a lot of heavy metals? Chinese were smart about it and invented paper money and bank notes. How to prevent the deflation of these "worthless" paper money? China invented the fiat currency system. These are all systems used by every single country and central bank in the world today.

As you can see, China was very innovative, and that was probably why China had always been the most economically and technologically advanced superpower in history. China only lost its creativity temporarily due to foreign invasions and wars in the past few centuries, which caused the Chinese economy and society to collapse. China only came out of poverty 20 years ago.

Keep in mind that the China is still in the middle of transitioning from a labour intensive low tech light manufacturing economy (to bring people out of extreme poverty) to a research and development based high tech economy. This is why people don't think China isn't innovative. People forget that China has only been not very innovative and making cheap knock offs for the past few decades. This doesn't mean China isn't innovative. In fact, no other developing country exerts as much influence in terms of innovation, research, and international brands.

Not very long ago, there weren't any major Chinese brands being sold overseas. Now Huawei is the world's top telecom engineering corporation and equipment maker, and designed and built many developed countries' telecom networks like the 4G in New Zealand (=North American Lite). ZTE and Huawei cellphones are also bundled with most mobile providers in the US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Europe. Wechat by Tencent is also the world's most used phone app (by registered users), and it's widely used in South East Asia and Brazil (most popular messaging app in Brazil). I remember when I first used Wechat, it had a lot more functions than apps like Whatsapp, and many of them are very creative and handy to use. Alibaba recently became the biggest IPO ever in history as well. There are also a few indie cellphone brands that are catching international attention, and became quite popular in many markets, such as the One Plus One (just google/youtube it), and Xiaomi (apparently sold out in a few minutes online in Singapore, India, etc.).

As the Chinese economy and society recover, I'm confident that there will be more and more top of the line Chinese brands emerging, and pushing China back to the forefront of innovation.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top