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Kings Dock | Waterfront | Future Development Sites

61449 Views 366 Replies 86 Participants Last post by  Pietari
With the new Exhibition Centre open for business, I thought it might be useful to have a thread where all discussion and news relating to the future redevelopment of the remaining land at Kings Dock can go. Despite the opening of the ACC & ECL, two (soon to be three) hotels, the MSCP, and two apartment developments, there still remains plenty of development space on this part of our waterfront -
https://flic.kr/p/y9tLdd
Original image taken from Google Earth. Copyright to Google. Shown here for informational purposes only.

Blue - The full extent of the ECL, including its marshaling and servicing areas.
Yellow - A small space between the ECL marshalling area and Halftide Wharf, including a landscaped area on Kings Parade.
Red - A site backing onto the ECL servicing area.
Green - A site backing onto the ECL servicing area. Depending on whether access to the ECL will continue to be provided directly off the roundabout, the red and green sites could be combined.
Turquoise - The single largest site available, but does have a large substation in the middle of the plot.
White - The former intended site of the Kings Dock Merseytram terminus. This site also has a substation towards the edge. The height of any development towards the northern part of this site would be restricted to maintain light to residents of the adjacent 'The Block' apartment development.
Pink - A site overlooking Wapping dock, with potential to include buildings projecting over, or otherwise interacting with the waterspace.
Purple - A narrow site alongside the main access road.

Several proposals have come and gone over the years, however the most recent date from May 2014, when as part of wider development plans for several sites access the city centre, the following was revealed -

From the Echo -
City leaders predicting bright future for Liverpool after £1.5bn regeneration proposals unveiled

City leaders predicted a bright future for Liverpool after £1.5bn worth of regeneration proposals were unveiled today by Mayor Joe Anderson .

A range of exciting schemes – estimated at creating 12,000 construction jobs – were discussed at this morning's Liverpool council cabinet meeting.

As well as an Olympic-standard ice rink on Kings Dock, the proposals also include ambitious plans for Lime Street and Mount Pleasant.

At Kings Dock the council is planning the new ice rink alongside an extreme sports complex, quality restaurants and family homes.



In a presentation on regeneration in the city, Mayor Anderson said the ice rink would be a "quality, internationally recognised" facility and likened it to the velodrome in Manchester.

He said: "We've got to make sure we take advantage of the city - no other city has that magnificent waterfront."
Full article here - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/city-leaders-predicting-bright-future-7129536

Although there has been no further word in recent months, the Lime Street proposals are moving forward, and with the ECL now complete, perhaps focus will now shift, and we can look forward to the next step in taking Kings Dock from this -

Copyright to the Liverpool Echo. Shown here for informational purposes only.

- to this -

Copyright to Exhibition Centre Liverpool. Shown here for informational purposes only.
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Aside from the obvious niche act... what is the point of building an ice skating rink? Or indeed an "extreme sports complex"?

Assuming the "vision" comes true and it is "internationally recognised", how many World ice skating events will it host per year? And what will it do for the rest of the time?

The Manchester velodrome is for cycling, which isn't exactly a niche sport and is a quality training centre for something which is able to attract both interest and funding, and which the UK is recognised as being a leading player in. So, is Liverpool to be for ice skating, what Manchester is to cycling?...

How about a National Cribbage Arena? Was that ever considered?
Adapting the floor of the Echo Arena for ice skating/hockey would be a lot cheaper. A retrofitted refrigeration plant for an ice surface would provide opportunities for generating even more business for the arena.

International ice skating is a very big sport, outside of the UK and, generates sell-out crowds at large (20k+) seater NHL arenas on this continent.
Aside from the obvious niche act... what is the point of building an ice skating rink? Or indeed an "extreme sports complex"?

Assuming the "vision" comes true and it is "internationally recognised", how many World ice skating events will it host per year? And what will it do for the rest of the time?
I've no doubt and, was wondering why on earth you posted (post #2) your original piece?
And on this continent...
Why not? I wasn't agreeing with you above, I was pointing to the irrelevance of any international popularity of ice skating when what matters is the popularity of it in the UK. Which is negligible. The contents of my post are self explanatory, questioning why on earth we would build an ice rink, catering for a niche sport of little interest in the UK and for which the UK isn't especially noted present day.

"Liverpool, the home of ice skating!" Hardly notable prestige, even if it were ever to be true. Assuming the UK could ever bring international ice skating events to Liverpool, the question as to what it would be doing the rest of the time is I think rather pertinent. Especially as budgets are being ever more squeezed and there are already many leisure and exercise facilities of somewhat wider appeal that need to be kept open.
I've no doubt and, was wondering why on earth you posted (post #2) your original piece?
These 'plans' appear to be yet more flimflam, thrown out defensively by a council leadership conscious of the fact there despite its boasts growth in the city centre has been anaemic since it has been in charge.

One does wonder again what has gone wrong. Just how has Liverpool gone from being able to carry off a development of the ambition and quality of Liverpool ONE to the pickle it is in now? Yes the great recession happened in the meantime but other cities are back to building for the future and building big. The current period of growth is currently peaking and if we don't get any schemes off the ground in the next couple of years they aren't going to happen.

The temptation of course is to blame one vainglorious and domineering politician of course. And I wouldn't feel guilty about that - he himself thrusts himself forward to take the credit for anything good that happens (such as it still does at all), he can by the same token take the blame for the general failure of his tenure.

Or is it not just one bad leader but of a parcel with bad local Labour party administration of Liverpool historically. Prendergast's crew were toytown incompetents as well.

Perhaps it doesn't matter and all councils are pants in Liverpool city. Criticise NW regionalism as we should perhaps the government backed support and project management of the NWDA explains how the Lib Dems under Storey achieved anything.

An especially unhelpful government under the Northern Manchesterhouse promoting Osbourne? The unavoidable message given out by the government's HS2 bypass?

Whatever, something has gone very wrong and we don't have the local leadership to respond to the perilous situation in which Liverpool finds itself.

So yeah, ice skating FFS...

I am reminded of the passage in Charles Nevin's "Lancashire: where women die of love" in which he recalls the old ice rink in Kensington. In the lobby, in a glass presentation case were a pair of blades. A sign on the box read, "Hitler's ice skates".
And I was pointing out that, the need for a purpose built ice arena was negated when the Echo Arena was available for retrofitting of a refrigeration unit, for a fraction of the cost.

Your post (#4) does seem to me to be more of a personal nature than either informative or, necessary.:dunno: Apologies if I'm wrong.
Why not? I wasn't agreeing with you above, I was pointing to the irrelevance of any international popularity of ice skating when what matters is the popularity of it in the UK. Which is negligible. The contents of my post are self explanatory, questioning why on earth we would build an ice rink, catering for a niche sport of little interest in the UK and for which the UK isn't especially noted present day.

"Liverpool, the home of ice skating!" Hardly notable prestige, even if it were ever to be true. Assuming the UK could ever bring international ice skating events to Liverpool, the question as to what it would be doing the rest of the time is I think rather pertinent. Especially as budgets are being ever more squeezed and there are already many leisure and exercise facilities of somewhat wider appeal that need to be kept open.
Apology accepted. You raised a question and seemed to have misunderstood my short post commenting on lack of popularity of ice skating in the UK, so I answered with explanation.
Your post (#4) does seem to me to be more of a personal nature than either informative or, necessary.:dunno: Apologies if I'm wrong.
And I will accept your explanation.
Apology accepted. You raised a question and seemed to have misunderstood my short post commenting on lack of popularity of ice skating in the UK, so I answered with explanation.
Since nothing concrete has been announced I think we should leave it there until we hear more.
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But it gives the usual suspect an opportunity to crib his backside off regarding the Mayor of Liverpool, a mayor he cannot vote on when the time comes.
Since nothing concrete has been announced I think we should leave it there until we hear more.
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One of the reasons British cycling is so good is because Manchester built that velodrome to the highest standards and made it a priority; it wasn't so long ago that Chris Boardman was the only UK cyclist anyone had heard of. If Liverpool built an ice rink, could the same not happen to British winter sports? Remember it's not just figure skating - there's ice hockey, curling, speed skating. Having Olympic class facilities enables talented youngsters to hone their skills in a way they couldn't previously. In addition, it would enable Liverpool to bid for World Championships, putting us on an international stage. And leaving that aside, the nearest ice rink to Liverpool is, what, Widnes? Deeside? Not great for a large city.

I'm not sold on all these uses - carving out land to create a watersports venue seems a backward step - but I'd rather see the dock used for *new* purposes.
I like your angle and if I thought that might be the outcome, then I could possibly be persuaded to think nice things about the idea, but the comparison doesn't stack up when you say there are ice rinks in Widnes and Deeside.

There were no velodrome facilities beforehand, so the gap there is obvious, but I think that ice skating, ice hockey and so on will just never have broad appeal here. You can participate in biking in a wide range of scenarios, and practice racing in a velodrome. You can only participate in ice dependent sports in the venue.
One of the reasons British cycling is so good is because Manchester built that velodrome to the highest standards and made it a priority; it wasn't so long ago that Chris Boardman was the only UK cyclist anyone had heard of. If Liverpool built an ice rink, could the same not happen to British winter sports? And leaving that aside, the nearest ice rink to Liverpool is, what, Widnes? Deeside? Not great for a large city.
Nothing should be built until we know if there is scope for exhibition centres 2 and 3. Nothing. Stuffing it with stuff that could go elsewhere would be an economic crime. Even cheap pointless stuff will be impossible to replace affordably and we could witness the tragedy of a really valuable source of economic growth being stifled.
Incidentally does anyone know what's happening with a northern boat show? Surely the combination of weather proof indoor exhibition space and nearby dock should make the idea more viable?
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I think this land will be left as it is until they see how successful the Exhibition Centre is with a view to extending it personally, and I believe it will be a success.
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I agree about having a form of world class facility but not ice skating. We don't have the appetite as a nation for winter sports as a whole. Mainly because we can't do snow properly. Cycling is a pretty big sport so it was smart of manchester to tap into this. Sailing could be something to look at.
One of the reasons British cycling is so good is because Manchester built that velodrome to the highest standards and made it a priority; it wasn't so long ago that Chris Boardman was the only UK cyclist anyone had heard of. If Liverpool built an ice rink, could the same not happen to British winter sports? Remember it's not just figure skating - there's ice hockey, curling, speed skating. Having Olympic class facilities enables talented youngsters to hone their skills in a way they couldn't previously. In addition, it would enable Liverpool to bid for World Championships, putting us on an international stage. And leaving that aside, the nearest ice rink to Liverpool is, what, Widnes? Deeside? Not great for a large city.

I'm not sold on all these uses - carving out land to create a watersports venue seems a backward step - but I'd rather see the dock used for *new* purposes.
And tomorrow....!

I think this land will be left as it is until they see how successful the Exhibition Centre is with a view to extending it personally, and I believe it will be a success.
I Agree! ECL offers less than 9000 sq meters of exhibition space - consider Hamburg's long established Messe Halls with over 92,000 sq meters and most German cities have similar facilities with Hanover being the biggest.
Go here:http://hamburg-messe.de/en/the-company/
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