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Tea. Earl grey. Hot.
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Discussion Starter #1
Quite sick of the ambiguity regarding the future of mass transport in Leeds (we don't need more buses!), our pathetic Councillors, and no real plan.



What does Leeds need? What will it take to convert former lines and reopen closed stations and transform it into a truly great commuter system?

I'm quite jealous of Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle!
 

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Even re-opening the former lines (some of which will be easier than others) there are huge sections of subruban Leeds that would be miles from a station. The whole section from Horsforth to Scholes has never had any rail network.

Leeds Wellington was only ever a temporary station while they rebuild City in 2001. I think the site of Central has been built over. The line through Otley is now the A660.

Not that reopening lines isn't a good idea, but we need more just that. Some sort of light rail system that doesn't need street running (or at least avoids it where at all possible) to reach the areas that the rail network doesn't.
 

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Loiner and Proud.
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Far from me to usually agree with Greg Mulholland, but I do think he was onto a realistic plan for Leeds with the below tram-train proposal.



It would need extending with further links to Guiseley and additional lines to the South (including Elland Road and White Rose), West (including Bradford) and East (including Thorpe Park)... but would be a start. I am sure we would all like to see underground rail/trams under at least the city center part of Leeds, but the chances of it happening (due to budget) would be highly unlikely and would cost millions to investigate but never go ahead (sounds similar).

Most of the infrastructure is there already, with additional stations, tram like carriages, additional electrification, and regular running timetable, it may be the only realistic way to move transport in Leeds forward.
 

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I just don't see the point / benefit in doing that. So from say Harrogate you can run on rails up as far as Burley Park, then on street for the busiest section of the journey - into Leeds.
 

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Carl Shutt ruined my life
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Now that the Sheffield Roth tram train pilot seems to be progressing it would be right to look at where in WY the technology could be incorporated, however despite what I said on other threads previously i don't see the point in this to be honest. Now that the council are committed to a park and ride at the airport the business case has been reduced somewhat. I think the only reason proceed with the above would be to increase capacity at City as you could have Harrogate services going to City Square rather than the station, however I'm sure the same benefit could be obtained by two more platforms in the car park as per NR's proposals from a while ago. If the WYCA are serious about a LCR tram/metro system then for me the priority should be about improving Leeds-Bradford connections. More people travel between the two cities than any other large cities in the North yet they have to put up with either poor rail services or heavily congested bus routes.
 

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It would work if tunnelled, like with the Sunderland branch of the Tyne & Wear Metro which splits on approach to Newcastle to Metro tunnels, diverging from the main line into Newcastle main line station.
 

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Even re-opening the former lines (some of which will be easier than others) there are huge sections of subruban Leeds that would be miles from a station. The whole section from Horsforth to Scholes has never had any rail network.

Leeds Wellington was only ever a temporary station while they rebuild City in 2001. I think the site of Central has been built over. The line through Otley is now the A660.

Not that reopening lines isn't a good idea, but we need more just that. Some sort of light rail system that doesn't need street running (or at least avoids it where at all possible) to reach the areas that the rail network doesn't.
Did you mean Leeds Whitehall which was the temporary station open from 1999 until 2002 whilst Leeds City was undergoing redevelopment works. Leeds Wellington was half of what is now Leeds City before merging into one station with Leeds New to form Leeds City in 1938. As for Leeds Central it was closed and demolished in 1967 and whilst it had become a Royal Mail Sorting Office and the Aireside Retail Park it is now the site of the West Point apartments, and the Central Square and Wellington Place office developments.

Still there is certainly a lot of room to open more railway stations across West Yorkshire although surely a key issue is how to keep capacity in place for express non stopping services so that they are not delayed by stopping trains as well as the relatively high costs in getting such stations open. Also of course transport connections at locations located many miles from the nearest railway line will certainly need looking at through alternative methods.

Far from me to usually agree with Greg Mulholland, but I do think he was onto a realistic plan for Leeds with the below tram-train proposal.



It would need extending with further links to Guiseley and additional lines to the South (including Elland Road and White Rose), West (including Bradford) and East (including Thorpe Park)... but would be a start. I am sure we would all like to see underground rail/trams under at least the city center part of Leeds, but the chances of it happening (due to budget) would be highly unlikely and would cost millions to investigate but never go ahead (sounds similar).

Most of the infrastructure is there already, with additional stations, tram like carriages, additional electrification, and regular running timetable, it may be the only realistic way to move transport in Leeds forward.
Not keen on the idea of making the Leeds - Harrogate - York line a tram-train considering the potential for slower services using tram-trains as opposed to trains as well as a surely placing a stumbling block in reopening the Harrogate - Ripon - Northallerton line which would surely make the Leeds - Harrogate line a lot more important were it to re-open as it would allow for a lot more longer distance services than what is the case at present as well as allowing for a useful diversion link in the event of the ECML between Northallerton and York being closed.

Now that the Sheffield Roth tram train pilot seems to be progressing it would be right to look at where in WY the technology could be incorporated, however despite what I said on other threads previously i don't see the point in this to be honest. Now that the council are committed to a park and ride at the airport the business case has been reduced somewhat. I think the only reason proceed with the above would be to increase capacity at City as you could have Harrogate services going to City Square rather than the station, however I'm sure the same benefit could be obtained by two more platforms in the car park as per NR's proposals from a while ago. If the WYCA are serious about a LCR tram/metro system then for me the priority should be about improving Leeds-Bradford connections. More people travel between the two cities than any other large cities in the North yet they have to put up with either poor rail services or heavily congested bus routes.
As for improving Leeds - Bradford connections isn't there meant to be more Bradford - Leeds services once the Northern Connect services commence in 2019? Still a high frequency service allowing for a mix of stopping and express services will certainly do a lot to improve services on the Leeds - Bradford and other key corridors across West Yorkshire.
 

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Ha, most realistic option so far!! ^^

I've been in china these last two weeks and one thing that struck me is that new underground routes are popping up like nobodies business. But they all follow a similar method whereby they build a great huge boulevard for traffic and in the meantime build an arrow straight tube line just under the surface (likewise in budapest where the oldest route there is perhaps 10 steps under the main throughway and arrow straight) now I'm not saying we dig up the headrow and build a line direct under that (though that would be perfect) and I aren't saying we destroy a lot of buildings just to create the perfect thoroughfare. But what about the inner ring road? Surely that already has enough depth to it, would a study into looking at using that as the main artery of our light rail network (with traffic running on top as before) not be a bad idea?
As we all know, once an initial line is in place it helps fight a corner for the rest of the network. And whilst this isn't bang central it would help move a lot of people from east to west of the city and perhaps connect with the rail network near the DWP building and again near the roundhouse past the YEP building.

Massive job but any thoughts?

even in their ancient cities they have manag
 

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I'm not saying we dig up the headrow and build a line direct under that (though that would be perfect) and I aren't saying we destroy a lot of buildings just to create the perfect thoroughfare. But what about the inner ring road? Surely that already has enough depth to it, would a study into looking at using that as the main artery of our light rail network (with traffic running on top as before) not be a bad idea?
Would probably more achievable to do the opposite - roof over more of the inner ring road and build tracks on top. I'm not really sure that would be the best route for any core rapid transit network though anyway; the IRR purposely avoids the main attractions of the city where people would want to go to.
 

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Carl Shutt ruined my life
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@arfa

That reminds me of a long abandoned plan to extend the Abbey Light Railway (sadly now closed) to Armley Mills. Given how bad the congestion was/is on the A65 it would have probably been quicker than driving!
 

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Would probably more achievable to do the opposite - roof over more of the inner ring road and build tracks on top. I'm not really sure that would be the best route for any core rapid transit network though anyway; the IRR purposely avoids the main attractions of the city where people would want to go to.


Year I agree, really it was more about getting something operational as a bed to work from.
 

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Was in Miami recently and their "downtown" system is an elevated train/monorail system, which I might add is completely free !!

Why hasn't this ever been looked at as you wouldn't need to dig up roads as much as you would for a tram/trolleybus system.
 

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Tram/ Train, Monorail, Underground or whatever. It doesn't matter.


The current Leeds Council leadership have made it abundantly clear they, (apart from 3 train halts) are spending money on the buses.


You could come up with the greatest Metro system on the planet they will not give it the time of day.
 

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Tram/ Train, Monorail, Underground or whatever. It doesn't matter.


The current Leeds Council leadership have made it abundantly clear they, (apart from 3 train halts) are spending money on the buses.


You could come up with the greatest Metro system on the planet they will not give it the time of day.
Then they are idiots.

It's no surprise to me why some developers won't invest here.
 
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