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The initial routes of the proposed scheme still seem wrong to me, though.
It's a difficult one because the original Supertram routes seem the obvious routes to go for, but these have tried and failed twice now.

I think there is a feeling that to get something built, different routes need to be looked at.

It's also sadly about recognising that this is a game of politics and the metro needs to incorporate neighbouring authorities if they are expected to help pay for it by way of the WYCA.
 

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It's also sadly about recognising that this is a game of politics and the metro needs to incorporate neighbouring authorities if they are expected to help pay for it by way of the WYCA.
I would hope that WYCA recognise this and push lines into the outer areas of other towns/cities in West Yorkshire. Wakefield, Dewsbury, Castleford, Bradford, even Halifax/Hudds commuters would likely welcome a P+R within their city/town boundaries that gets them to multiple destinations within Leeds.

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day from Wakey, he said a train from central wakefield to central Bradford took him over an hour. Those are the sort of issues a metro should aim to resolve. In London, that journey on the tube would take 25/30 minutes.

Also looking at both Nottingham/Sheffield trams, they both fail to do this. Sheffield's trams never expanded into Rotherham until recently, then the tram that terminates at Halfway could have easily stretched into Chesterfield to widen the cities reach. Leeds needs to be thinking about the entire region of WY to get this through, it can't just think about Seacroft and Beeston as logical places for trams to terminate or we'll end up with an inefficient system like other tram systems in the UK.
 

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The emerging City Region Metro is regional rather than Leeds based though. Admittedly not to Wakefield, but it is on the fast line to Leeds already.

 

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I agree this is a big step in the right direction, but I think it could go slightly further.

Take Service 1 terminating at Dewsbury. It's 3 miles from the M1 J40 and next door to Ossett, which has no train service. Why not extend and put a P+R on the M1 so essentially, east Wakefield can get to Bradford without having to clog up the already packed M62 or go through Leeds on the train.

Again Service 2 terminating at J28 P+R. Why not run the line through Tingley & East Ardsley and even create a M1 P+R at Junction 41? Imagine for the Arena/Uni how many would jump off the M1 and use the metro. Also no bias with that one :)
 

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Am observation on that map is you've got some stops incredibly close together with some a great distance apart.

Other than Metrolink heavy rail conversions I cannot think of any true new build light rail lines that have spanned rural areas with such large gaps between stops.

That's a relatively untested plan in the UK in recent times which would present new challenges.
 

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Am observation on that map is you've got some stops incredibly close together with some a great distance apart.

Other than Metrolink heavy rail conversions I cannot think of any true new build light rail lines that have spanned rural areas with such large gaps between stops.

That's a relatively untested plan in the UK in recent times which would present new challenges.
I believe that is the WYCA map and not Ttebroc's, so they are looking at overcoming those challenges covering rural areas
 

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Am observation on that map is you've got some stops incredibly close together with some a great distance apart.

Other than Metrolink heavy rail conversions I cannot think of any true new build light rail lines that have spanned rural areas with such large gaps between stops.

That's a relatively untested plan in the UK in recent times which would present new challenges.
The (small) footnote on the map does explain that not all stops are shown.
 

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Interesting article on the BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50651235

The Conservatives have promised £4.2bn of new spending on local train, bus and tram services if they win the 12 December general election.

"Local authorities would have to bid for the cash. They would also be given more control over things like setting fares, station upgrades and service patterns.

But they would also be expected to put money towards the schemes themselves. Examples of the sorts of projects that might get money include:

◾A new metro or light rail in West Yorkshire, including to Dewsbury, Pudsey and the Spen Valley"
As usual, to be taken with a pinch of salt at election time, but surely one day something will actually happen. The route mentioned above is presumably the orange 'Service 1' line on the above map, which is perhaps being seen as the initial priority of the three. But imagine if this is the only line which gets built within the next decade or so - this alone is unlikely to have any significant affect over the gridlocked roads. In fact, you could probably argue that building all three of those initial lines are only going to scratch the surface. How can any resident or business in Leeds make plans around being based in the city based on potentially decades of worsening traffic? I only hope Leeds looks at all possible options at raising its own capital to fund extensions as quickly as possible. A workplace parking levy, a congestion zone, an emissions zone, and probably council tax rises across the LCR should all be implemented post-haste, hopefully in conjunction with some new ideas to boot.
 

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As usual, to be taken with a pinch of salt at election time, but surely one day something will actually happen. The route mentioned above is presumably the orange 'Service 1' line on the above map, which is perhaps being seen as the initial priority of the three. But imagine if this is the only line which gets built within the next decade or so - this alone is unlikely to have any significant affect over the gridlocked roads. In fact, you could probably argue that building all three of those initial lines are only going to scratch the surface. How can any resident or business in Leeds make plans around being based in the city based on potentially decades of worsening traffic? I only hope Leeds looks at all possible options at raising its own capital to fund extensions as quickly as possible. A workplace parking levy, a congestion zone, an emissions zone, and probably council tax rises across the LCR should all be implemented post-haste, hopefully in conjunction with some new ideas to boot.


The other problem with this article is that it doesn’t mention the fact that this would be allocated through a bid process open to all the major cities - in which situation you can almost guarantee a Metrolink upgrade for Manchester, tram extension for the West Midlands would make a better ‘value for money’ case and likely win over Leeds.
 

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Wasn't the initial plan to construct the metro to complete around the same time as HS2 complete in the 2030s? If thats the case, if Service 1 is delivered well before that it would be a big step in the right direction.
 

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If funding for the north is your biggest hang up, voting for the Yorkshire Party may be your best bet.

Longer stretches of track through Rural/Semi Rural areas has been tested and implemented. The route between Shaw and Rochdale is a prime example.
 

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Thank you for your replies, I've learnt stuff today.

Does anyone have a clue how mature these plans are? Is there a Transportation and Works act ready to go or are we years away from shovels in the ground?
 

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The 2nd one. It’s at exploration stage only.

Last update to WYCA was September...

https://westyorkshire.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s13175/Item 10 - Connectivity Strategy Update.pdf

They are at outline business case stage, currently undertaking a market testing process, basically inviting industry experts to provide ideas to meet a set criteria..

https://www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/improving-transport/urban-transit/

https://www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/media/2909/advanced-urban-transit-technologies-market-testing-prospectus-v18.pdf
 

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The Conservative promise is a lie like everything else they promised and didn't deliver. They've been in power 9 years with plenty of time to deliver the Northern Powerhouse, local transport improvements and the rest - not only have they failed, but they have actually reduced transport spending by 10% in Yorkshire: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50592261
 

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I know we’ve heard it all before, and nobody here expects to be boarding a Leeds tram anytime soon, but at least there’s a tiny chink of light out there again, as opposed to the total darkness surrounding light rail in those grim trolley bus days. And maybe as battery technology improves the prospect of trams without wires could make the initial infrastructure investment a little less prohibitive than it is now.
 

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The emerging City Region Metro is regional rather than Leeds based though. Admittedly not to Wakefield, but it is on the fast line to Leeds already.

Just looking at this map again and curious about the orange route from Eastgate, and how/why it would get all the way from Eastgate to the Arena without any intermediate stops.

Here's an idea:



Given we're all aware the IRR is in need of substantial repair or complete replacement, one way in which to do so would be to 'underground' it completely, with the resulting land above being given to a mass transit option. The benefit of this approach is that although this couldn't really be built on, it could be landscaped into a grass and tree-lined boulevard, something like those in Barcelona. It wouldn't need any CPOs, wouldn't demolish any properties, and most importantly is the only realistic way you can get from Eastgate to the Arena without going through the middle of town (too close to the other blue/green routes) and without any intermediate stops. It then meets the other two lines near the Woodhouse Lane car park, which given the Council's direction of travel (excuse the pun) on city centre parking, could be replaced with a smaller building or even removed entirely to give way to a bigger travel interchange.

All pie in the sky stuff but just trying to fill in the blanks!
 

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I think 'emerging' is a key word - the stop names don't really identify a specific location. Victoria Gate, Bus Station & Eastgate is a large area as is 'LGI & Arena'. I think the diagram is more of an attempt to show the key travel zones in the central area where stops could be located rather than an exact plan.
 

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Could just build the metro underground instead.

Oh wait this country can’t manage to fund infrastructure.
 

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I think 'emerging' is a key word - the stop names don't really identify a specific location. Victoria Gate, Bus Station & Eastgate is a large area as is 'LGI & Arena'. I think the diagram is more of an attempt to show the key travel zones in the central area where stops could be located rather than an exact plan.


True - that’s why it’s just a guess! It’s infinitely better to get a dedicated bit of tram track through the city centre like that than it go into the congested bus-filled streets in the city centre, especially if there are two separate routes.
 

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Could just build the metro underground instead.

Oh wait this country can’t manage to fund infrastructure.
Yeah, just like that! If you think a tram will take ages to build, just you wait till we try to sort a metro out.

France is an interesting comparison if you want to look at a country that does fund infrastructure. They largely abandoned building underground metro systems (outside Paris at least) and have gone for trams instead.
 
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