SkyscraperCity banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Joined
·
655 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yes the issue has been brought up on other trends and there are pros and cons to halifax, quebec city and moncton for a pro football franchise.

I of course have the view that a 2 billion dollar commonwealth games is not the way to go for Halaifax. I also feel that Quebec City is a stronger market with PEPS stadium being the home of Laval University team drawing as much as 19200 for a games with a capacity of that stadium only being 18500 seats.

How about some logical talk about the options and opinions.

Jim jones
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
well, were not really sure what the potential is for a market in Halifax since the temporarily expanded Huskies Stadium sold out. Who's to say we couldnt thousands more for an exhibition game or even any CFL game. That was 11,000 fans that saw that first exhibition, and they of course werent even teams from the atlantic provinces. Imagine the attendance we could bring if we had our own team.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
521 Posts
It's irrelevant how big Halifax's or Quebec's stadium is right now. The CFL requires any potential market cities to have a 25,000+ seat stadium. Both cities would need new stadiums, except that Quebec might be able to expand theirs (although I don't know whether or not there are any physical constraints)
 
Joined
·
655 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wishblade said:
well, were not really sure what the potential is for a market in Halifax since the temporarily expanded Huskies Stadium sold out. Who's to say we couldnt thousands more for an exhibition game or even any CFL game. That was 11,000 fans that saw that first exhibition, and they of course werent even teams from the atlantic provinces. Imagine the attendance we could bring if we had our own team.
well it think the atlantic touchdown is a good sign of the money in the market as they had double the price of tickets for that event then a regular CFL game.
thousand more with a perminent stadium is certainly possible but how fast will the novelity factor last and how strong.

An atlantic home team might be another factor both negative and positive to the gate. The Toronto VS Hamilton is an intereing rivalry.

That is the dynamic that a team from halifax has to realy grasp for marketing is some type of rivalry for part of the draw year after the novelity factor has worn off.

A rivalry factor is certainly something that would work between quebec city and montreal IE. nordics and canadians in hockey.

jim jones
 
Joined
·
655 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
bluenoser said:
It's irrelevant how big Halifax's or Quebec's stadium is right now. The CFL requires any potential market cities to have a 25,000+ seat stadium. Both cities would need new stadiums, except that Quebec might be able to expand theirs (although I don't know whether or not there are any physical constraints)
Peps stadium is able to expand for the information I have seen but I have also seen where a new stadium is what the CFL wants for Quebec city and the mayor does not want to fund a new CFL stadium. Jean CHarest may fund a stadium as he has committed 500 milllion to sport infrastructure for the next 5 years around quebec city for a run at biding on a winter olympics in ther future.

Jim jones
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
521 Posts
Rivalry? How about Halifax and Vancouver...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
bluenoser said:
Rivalry? How about Halifax and Vancouver...
Hmm coast vs. coast... Atlantic vs. Pacific... not a bad idea, since Calgary/Edmonton are already their own rivals, along with the Roughriders.

In reality Halifax likely couldn't develop a really strong rivalry unless there were another Atlantic team. Or maybe we could be rivals with Calgary as there are so many East Coasters in the west. Nonetheless, I don't think the rivalry factor would hold us back too much.

I have always thought Halifax to be a very sport-oriented city with plenty of interest and population to support a CFL team. That's what's cool about the CFL - it's Canadian and thus oriented toward Canadian cities. As opposed to the NFL, American and therefore has all kinds of big cities to host expensive teams.

Obviously Regina can support a team and the general understanding is that Halifax has more sport supporters in general, not to mention people, with (not to start a debate on this) at least a similar economy.

Also, I don't beleive location to be a major factor. I don't think the CFL is some sort of welfare league where they can't afford to fly too often from place to place. Halifax, being in the Eastern division, would be within pretty good range for many of its games. Winnipeg to Vancouver is 2300 kms where Halifax to Toronto is only 2000 kms. In that respect, a team in Halifax would be good for the CFL - a truly Canadian sports league from coast to coast (not to mention evening out the divisions (provided the Renegades are reinstated)).

In my mind the problem for Halifax has never been anything but getting a stadium. There's interest, poulation and corporate support. My hope is that a stadium gets underway soon and a team is put together and ready to play when or before the stadium opens.

One other thing - it would be a bad idea to name the team the 'Atlantic _____' due to the possibility of a future expansion team somewhere in the provinces. How can you represent four provinces with one team? Though I guess it would be in line with our New England friends to the south.
 
Joined
·
655 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well as for the atlantic thing realistically if halifax has a franchise I cannot see another franchise in the region for atleast 2 to 3 decades. If the Halifax team does not do well or a sweeter deal for a stadium is offered in moncton then the league would have to think that having a team in a central location would be best.The sweater stadium deal almost happened with the new england patriots when the state didnt want to fund a new foxboro stadium and the city of hartford made an offer to the Patriots. To expand to the point of moncton and halifax you would have to have a new franchise in the west division and I cant see the will in victoria that also really has no stadium.
Quebec city would also come before Moncton as Quebec city has twice the population of Halifax and can easily do a franchise now with an expansion ot peps stadium.

Halifax is not the best of sports towns . The Nova Scotia Voyagers won champoinships with future NHL hall of famers like Bob Gainnie, Larry Robertson, Ken Dryden and yet the franchise was moved to Sherbrooke Quebec. The Nova Scotia Oilers had the same attendance problems in the metro centre and were relocated to Syndey and a small arena that was packed and more profitable then Halifax. Then you had the Quebec Nordics AHL farm club Franchise, the Halifax Citidels, being paid 35,000 dollars a game to occupy the metro centre. That club eventually relocated to Cornwalis Ontario. Halifax turns out for events like world championships and the annual CIAA basketball tournament. The QMJHL team is the only exception to the general rule.
Could The Moosehead and a CFL franchise be in conflict with each other for the same entertainment dollars? The conflict would be there and actually would be increased as capacity for the metro centre is about 10,000 and a cfl team needs a 25,000 seat stadium. It can be debated that the ending of the season for the CFL in october early november and the starting of the QMJHL starting the season about that time does not provide a big conflict. The former factor might just spoil one or the other franchises bottom line especially if one is coming off a losing season the year before.

jim jones

jim jones
 

·
The ASS in Class
Joined
·
212 Posts
Always the same...

The problem I've found with anybody who is against a stadium/CWG/CFL team, in Halifax is they automatically assume it's either, a City sports team, a city bid, they can't see the regional support from NEw Brunswick, PEI, and Newfoundland. Firstly, the CFL would be an "Atlantic" team, be it the Atlantic Schooners, or the Atlantic Pirates, whatever is the best selling name, but none the less an Atlantic team. If you set up the flight, and hotel deals... like most internet vactation websites do, (for anybody who hasn't heard of expedia, or the sort) you'd see it's very feesable to have a fan base in NFLD, or NB, or PEI, as well as in NS, or CB. As well as the games bid, if we can get the sport associations of each of those provinces to put in on it, not only would we make Halifax the sports centre for the region, but we wouldn't have to send our athletes to Calgary, or Ontario, or BC for training. It's not about Halifax now, it's about keeping the number one economic centre of the the region to constantly build on it successes. People jsut need to stop being afraid to stick their heads out of their comfortable and safe shells, and live a little. Does anyone remember the Moosehead Grand Prix? Anyone ever wonder how much the city made on that? $2, 000, 000 right to the citys pocket... but some concerned citizens (not even close to the majority of the city) were bothered by the noise created by the event, for one weekend out of the year. Why can't the region get it's head removed from it's save little hole, in it's rear, and start moving in a positive direction.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Reddog794 said:
The problem I've found with anybody who is against a stadium/CWG/CFL team, in Halifax is they automatically assume it's either, a City sports team, a city bid, they can't see the regional support from NEw Brunswick, PEI, and Newfoundland. Firstly, the CFL would be an "Atlantic" team, be it the Atlantic Schooners, or the Atlantic Pirates, whatever is the best selling name, but none the less an Atlantic team. If you set up the flight, and hotel deals... like most internet vactation websites do, (for anybody who hasn't heard of expedia, or the sort) you'd see it's very feesable to have a fan base in NFLD, or NB, or PEI, as well as in NS, or CB. As well as the games bid, if we can get the sport associations of each of those provinces to put in on it, not only would we make Halifax the sports centre for the region, but we wouldn't have to send our athletes to Calgary, or Ontario, or BC for training. It's not about Halifax now, it's about keeping the number one economic centre of the the region to constantly build on it successes. People jsut need to stop being afraid to stick their heads out of their comfortable and safe shells, and live a little. Does anyone remember the Moosehead Grand Prix? Anyone ever wonder how much the city made on that? $2, 000, 000 right to the citys pocket... but some concerned citizens (not even close to the majority of the city) were bothered by the noise created by the event, for one weekend out of the year. Why can't the region get it's head removed from it's save little hole, in it's rear, and start moving in a positive direction.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

Cliff

This is very true. You have to think big sometimes or else your going to stay the same and never progress.
 
Joined
·
655 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
well in regards to the moosehead grand Prix if noise was the issue then shearwater air base would have solved that . The thing Is I have always heard of these magical figures that turn out to be 1 million 2 million 10 million dollars.
The Junos thing is an example of that is spades with the type of statement We predict that there will be xxx ammount of dollars but we will not know until we get the final figures afterwards. THen it is never released to the public . considering you have public money and resources involved you have a situation that people dont believe officials when they have never come forth with trasparent figures.
Considering The Moosehead grand prix was in the late 1980's early 1990's that says it all for the 2 million the city made. Maybe the city made it but the promoters didnt make enough to continue it.

jim jones
 

·
The ASS in Class
Joined
·
212 Posts
picking Battles

Jim, not to single you out, but... well I'm singling you out. You seem to pick only negitive stances? Devils advocate or relentless pessimist? :) As for the figures, it was 2 mill, but you're semi right about the promoters, they didn't make as much as they thought, but they noticed a trend, the following year, they made more. The Grand prix kept getting more interest as it went on, plus there was something about have cars going silly silly speeds in the city that drew people. Had they moved it to Shearwater, then it would have died, or become a mainly Dartmouth thing, and then would have died. Come on man bounce back some points on my other half of the post, about getting the CFL to succeed here. You're a great "other side of the coin". You sound like you know your arguments.
 
Joined
·
655 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Reddog794 said:
Jim, not to single you out, but... well I'm singling you out. You seem to pick only negitive stances? Devils advocate or relentless pessimist? :) As for the figures, it was 2 mill, but you're semi right about the promoters, they didn't make as much as they thought, but they noticed a trend, the following year, they made more. The Grand prix kept getting more interest as it went on, plus there was something about have cars going silly silly speeds in the city that drew people. Had they moved it to Shearwater, then it would have died, or become a mainly Dartmouth thing, and then would have died. Come on man bounce back some points on my other half of the post, about getting the CFL to succeed here. You're a great "other side of the coin". You sound like you know your arguments.
Cliff
well the thing is it is not being a pessimist at all . It is seeing trends of sports enterprizes in the city. I dont hear anything about the hydroplane races do they still have them ???? That was a great sports enterprize for cocan new brunswick and died with the introduction of dartmouth to that circuit. Now I beleive niether place has hyrdoplane races. There is great support in the beginning but that tends to go away within a decade or less. The exception is the moosehead and th annual CIAA basketball championships.Perhaps the moosehead sucess is a sign of a maturing city inwhich a sport franchise can happen. The problem for the cfl is that you need 24000 people to substain the franchise and the Metro centre is under half that for capacity so if the extent of sports support year after year is 10,000 people maximum per game then the CFL wil not survive in Halifax. The thing is with Metro Halifax you dont really have a static population in that people are transferred in and out of the area for the different types of businesses and government institutions fairly regularly. You can have the population in comparision to regina but regina has had the Roughriders since the 40's and taylor field has been there that long. All the teams with the exception of montreal and ottawa have continuous histories since the 1940's so their origins were in a time when you didnt have things like , TV, mutliplex cinemas, casinos,internet,dvds, cds, moive rentals and so many forms of entertainment for customers to choice from. The problem for the grand prix,if what you are saying is true about increasing numbers ,could be that other places on the circuit like trois riveres could not be doing so hot. With Halifax at the extreme end of the east and Three rivers not doing well both could be dropped. I dont know where the state of Formula Atlantic went.

The biggest problem for sports franchises and especially the CFL is going into a new territory now with american sports being watched and available so much more to the local tv viewer. At the time that the atlantic schooneers was a JL albireit /rb cameron concept for halifax the following for the CFL was very strong in metro. So strong that the Fleet club would be packed and fans in the armed forces would decorate the room with west and east fake goal posts for the Grey cup broadcast. That does not happen anymore.

Does it mean there is not interest? of course not . I believe there is good interest the question is for how long and how strong.

jim jones
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Jonestowncultinpicto said:
well the thing is it is not being a pessimist at all . It is seeing trends of sports enterprizes in the city. I dont hear anything about the hydroplane races do they still have them ???? That was a great sports enterprize for cocan new brunswick and died with the introduction of dartmouth to that circuit. Now I beleive niether place has hyrdoplane races. There is great support in the beginning but that tends to go away within a decade or less. The exception is the moosehead and th annual CIAA basketball championships.Perhaps the moosehead sucess is a sign of a maturing city inwhich a sport franchise can happen. The problem for the cfl is that you need 24000 people to substain the franchise and the Metro centre is under half that for capacity so if the extent of sports support year after year is 10,000 people maximum per game then the CFL wil not survive in Halifax. The thing is with Metro Halifax you dont really have a static population in that people are transferred in and out of the area for the different types of businesses and government institutions fairly regularly. You can have the population in comparision to regina but regina has had the Roughriders since the 40's and taylor field has been there that long. All the teams with the exception of montreal and ottawa have continuous histories since the 1940's so their origins were in a time when you didnt have things like , TV, mutliplex cinemas, casinos,internet,dvds, cds, moive rentals and so many forms of entertainment for customers to choice from. The problem for the grand prix,if what you are saying is true about increasing numbers ,could be that other places on the circuit like trois riveres could not be doing so hot. With Halifax at the extreme end of the east and Three rivers not doing well both could be dropped. I dont know where the state of Formula Atlantic went.

The biggest problem for sports franchises and especially the CFL is going into a new territory now with american sports being watched and available so much more to the local tv viewer. At the time that the atlantic schooneers was a JL albireit /rb cameron concept for halifax the following for the CFL was very strong in metro. So strong that the Fleet club would be packed and fans in the armed forces would decorate the room with west and east fake goal posts for the Grey cup broadcast. That does not happen anymore.

Does it mean there is not interest? of course not . I believe there is good interest the question is for how long and how strong.

jim jones



There are many more hockey games in a hockey season than in football season. The Mooseheads sometimes have 2-3 home games in a week. There are far less games played in a football season. So gaging the attendence of the moosehead games to a potential attendence of a CFL team is like comparing apples to oranges. You're going to get a lot more people out to a football game for the very fact there are less games.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Jonestowncultinpicto said:
well the thing is it is not being a pessimist at all . It is seeing trends of sports enterprizes in the city. I dont hear anything about the hydroplane races do they still have them ???? That was a great sports enterprize for cocan new brunswick and died with the introduction of dartmouth to that circuit. Now I beleive niether place has hyrdoplane races. There is great support in the beginning but that tends to go away within a decade or less. The exception is the moosehead and th annual CIAA basketball championships.Perhaps the moosehead sucess is a sign of a maturing city inwhich a sport franchise can happen. The problem for the cfl is that you need 24000 people to substain the franchise and the Metro centre is under half that for capacity so if the extent of sports support year after year is 10,000 people maximum per game then the CFL wil not survive in Halifax. The thing is with Metro Halifax you dont really have a static population in that people are transferred in and out of the area for the different types of businesses and government institutions fairly regularly. You can have the population in comparision to regina but regina has had the Roughriders since the 40's and taylor field has been there that long. All the teams with the exception of montreal and ottawa have continuous histories since the 1940's so their origins were in a time when you didnt have things like , TV, mutliplex cinemas, casinos,internet,dvds, cds, moive rentals and so many forms of entertainment for customers to choice from. The problem for the grand prix,if what you are saying is true about increasing numbers ,could be that other places on the circuit like trois riveres could not be doing so hot. With Halifax at the extreme end of the east and Three rivers not doing well both could be dropped. I dont know where the state of Formula Atlantic went.

The biggest problem for sports franchises and especially the CFL is going into a new territory now with american sports being watched and available so much more to the local tv viewer. At the time that the atlantic schooneers was a JL albireit /rb cameron concept for halifax the following for the CFL was very strong in metro. So strong that the Fleet club would be packed and fans in the armed forces would decorate the room with west and east fake goal posts for the Grey cup broadcast. That does not happen anymore.

Does it mean there is not interest? of course not . I believe there is good interest the question is for how long and how strong.

jim jones



There are many more hockey games in a hockey season than in football season. The Mooseheads sometimes have 2-3 home games in a week. There are far less games played in a football season. So gadging the attendence of the moosehead games to a potential attendence of a CFL team is like comparing apples to oranges. You're going to get a lot more people out to a football game for the very fact there are less games.
 
Joined
·
655 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
HaliGuy said:
There are many more hockey games in a hockey season than in football season. The Mooseheads sometimes have 2-3 home games in a week. There are far less games played in a football season. So gadging the attendence of the moosehead games to a potential attendence of a CFL team is like comparing apples to oranges. You're going to get a lot more people out to a football game for the very fact there are less games.
True enough but also include that with fewer football games and the stadium being outdoors weather would play a factor in attendance probably more then hockey at the metro centre. Sure you may have a time getting to the hockey game in a snow storm but once there you would not have to deal with the elements on the outside. If the Cfl team is doing well and into the playoffs then it is not much of a problem. If you have a loser then the end of the season you will have big loses for gate because no one will come to see the the team lose in a snow or rain storm. A losing team will be very dependant on walk up traffic and walk up traffic could go to nil in the fall with a rain storm or cold weather. The moosheads actually have the advantage for the simple fact of being indoors. Remember 24000 every games or 240,000 people for the season to make enough money to make it worth wild. The other thing I would like to know is the price of a ticket for the mooseheads. I havent a clue to be honest on tickets for the moosehead but I know it is between 20 to 30 dollars for CFL for a game ticket.

jim jones
 

·
The ASS in Class
Joined
·
212 Posts
Jim about your fear of the weather, suck it up suzy. Think about those fools in Green Bay, and Chicago who go to games in just body paint for games in December. I think the residents of the Atlantic provinces could handle a little snow. Plus if you market it right, to the other atlantic provinces, then you shouldn't have a problem getting those types of crowds. Remeber Jim, this wouldn't be a city team, it would be a regional team.
 

·
The ASS in Class
Joined
·
212 Posts
Jonestowncultinpicto said:
well the thing is it is not being a pessimist at all . It is seeing trends of sports enterprizes in the city. I dont hear anything about the hydroplane races do they still have them ???? That was a great sports enterprize for cocan new brunswick and died with the introduction of dartmouth to that circuit. Now I beleive niether place has hyrdoplane races. There is great support in the beginning but that tends to go away within a decade or less.
jim jones
The problem with the hydofoils was Halifax harbour, it was too choppy, way way to choppy to be going at the speeds that they wanted to go, The support was always there, I worked for a guy who owned, and raced a team, he's still getting calls about it. I just think that some people just are afraid of what might happen if they give a little.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
521 Posts
Somehow I doubt the weather here would be any more of a problem than in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg, Regina, Calgary, or Edmonton.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top