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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, so it's not a "proposed" high speed rail project as such, being more of an aspiration at the moment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7467203.stm

But why is it that all of the big cities are mentioned except Liverpool. Leeds and Newcastle are not mentioned on the map, but would clearly be included on the east coast line. This project has just been discussed on Channel 4 News also - Network Rail are considering undertaking what would be the biggest railway building project since the 19th century, including TGV style services. Liverpool was excluded from the routes mentioned in this report also.

If a scheme of this nature ever comes to pass and Liverpool is excluded from it, then the city will be as good as doomed to a future as a 4th tier conurbation. No doubt business people and investors would be left feeling that Liverpool is well and truly out of the loop, with access to this 21st century rail network gained by a 40 minute Pacer ride to Manchester.

I wonder if Merseyside's representatives have even noticed this glaring and disgraceful omission?
 

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Until the plans are published in full, its going to be difficult to make a judgement on this. What I have heard is that the proposed network would involve adding new lines to the existing alignments as a way of addressing capacity issues. Therefore, the fact that the line does not extend right into the centre of Liverpool is not so important an issue. Building a new high speed alignment right into a major city is always going to be extremely difficult and expensive and there are already four tracks from Ditton Junction near Widnes all the way to Lime Street.

If you look at the French TGVs, they make extensive use of existing lines to get into the centre of major cities.

What is important, of course, is that the alignments permit a high frequency service from Liverpool to London and, other major cities. Louise Ellmann is now chair of the House of Commons Transport Select Committee (following the death of Gwyneth Dunwoody), so hopefully she can use her influence to make sure that Liverpool is not forgotten.
 

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So a hub type thing somewhere like Warrington with regular services from Liverpool and Manchester would make more sense then?

I'm not so convinced, people will demand a single journey to and from major centres, if you have to change then you'll drop off the radar.
 

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So a hub type thing somewhere like Warrington with regular services from Liverpool and Manchester would make more sense then?

I'm not so convinced, people will demand a single journey to and from major centres, if you have to change then you'll drop off the radar.
Who said anything about changing? The post above yours states that for example, TGV's use existing infrastructure in crowded city centers.

It is quite clear that no new quadruple track railway lines are going to be built through any city center unless it was to be an upgrade of an existing line (which these proposals are not).
 

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Ah got you, the high speed rail is where is can be accommodated. I misread it.

As for the maglev stuff, I don't know about the technology etc but do believe that there should be better, more regular, reliable and quicker rail between cities across the country as well as London.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Gentlemen,

Relief. I've just discovered the same story covered in the Financial Times and they mention Liverpool. It seems that the BBC, in referring to the West Coast Main Line, decide to exclude any mention of Liverpool. Typically appalling journalism on their part; in future I will be sure to cast my net further than their website.

Network Rail plans five extra main lines

By Robert Wright andJim Pickard

Published: June 20 2008 23:26 | Last updated: June 20 2008 23:26


Britain is set next week to take a significant step towards its biggest railway-building project for more than a century, when Network Rail will announce it is launching a strategic review to look at the possibility of building five new main lines.

The company, which owns and operates Britain’s main line railways, is expected to say that the lines will be needed by 2025, when existing routes north and west of London will be full to capacity.

Most routes are likely to be high-speed passenger lines, modelled on France’s TGV network, which would free up space on existing lines for local passenger and freight trains.

The routes to be examined are likely to follow roughly a series of existing routes from London: the West Coast Line to Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow, Great Western line to Bristol, East Coast line to Edinburgh, Midland line to Sheffield and Chiltern route to Birmingham.

Only one new main line rail route has been built in the UK in the past century – High Speed One from London St Pancras to the Channel Tunnel, whose last section opened in November.

Before that, the last new main line to be constructed was the extension of the Great Central Railway from Nottinghamshire to London, Marylebone, opened in 1899.

Network Rail is unlikely to specify which new lines should be high-speed because speed will be one of the issues examined in the review, for which the company is seeking a consultant. While high-speed trains generally emit less carbon dioxide per passenger for a journey than aircraft, faster trains emit CO2 far more than conventional-speed trains.

The Department for Transport faced criticism last summer when its rail White Paper contained no concrete plans either to electrify much of the rail system or to plan for future high-speed lines.

Network Rail is thought to be launching the review under its obligation to plan for the railways’ long-term future.

The busiest rail lines are growing increasingly crowded after passenger traffic grew 67 per cent between 1994 and last year. Freight traffic is up about 50 per cent since the mid-1990s.
 

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Louise Ellmann is now chair of the House of Commons Transport Select Committee (following the death of Gwyneth Dunwoody), so hopefully she can use her influence to make sure that Liverpool is not forgotten.
:lol::lol::lol: I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that, her 'regional' record with regards to protecting her constituants and their city are less than admirable!
 

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:lol::lol::lol: I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that, her 'regional' record with regards to protecting her constituants and their city are less than admirable!
Well, she was born in Manchester wasn't she? All the same, it is good to have someone local in such an influential position.

If what is proposed is an LGV type network, I can't see it extending into the centre of any major city, except perhaps London and then only due to the congestion of routes in the centre of the city. The CTRL runs in tunnels from Barking to St Pancras - but that is at enormous cost.
 
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