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All of this attention being paid to grand projects and wealthy retail companies is good news for Liverpool. But I think urgent attention should be paid to encouraging more traditional markets. And when I say 'traditional', I mean proper ones that are cheap to rent and relatively unregulated. I hate these pretend markets where there is very little activity, and things have been made to look all heritagey.

I also think that 21CL Society should add this matter to its list of initiatives.

Markets can be great for people with less to spend, and just anybody wanting an alternative to the formal style stores. They provide tons of interesting and competitve choice. Also, they are a great way for ordinary people to try and run their own business. We used to go to the Heritage on Old Dock Rd a lot when I was kid, but I'm not sure if that's still there. Two of my uncles had stalls there and it was great for them. The last I heard was that this was threatened due to fire hazard (???)

I think Liverpool needs a market of this nature nearer to town. It is a very cheap and easy thing for the council to facilitate and provides something for consumers and people seeking employment and opportunities. All that is required is a large, open plan building- then cheap rents can be charged of, say, £50/week (ideally.) Markets also foster community and good social relations, and this is being recognised in Barcelona in particular, where cheap to rent markets are being encouraged.

It is no good if the council spoils the idea by charging high rents, and discouraging competition and involving a wide range of people. It will also be pointless if the council imposes all kinds of stupid regulations. What is needed is an old warehouse or other structure, and providing building/fire/health reg's are satisfiedm, the inside should be chaotic and untidy, and enable anybody who can afford low rents to sell their wares and compete.

Sadly, in this country, markets have suffered over the years as councils tend to be anti-enterprise and seem distrustful of schemes to make money (strange, eh?)

But a trick is really being missed in the city. A real, traditional market can actually acuire such an atmosphere that it can become an attraction as well liked as any fancy shopping complex.
 

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Absolutely right. Enterprise is at the centre of the economic policy the city should pursue, and enterprises need markets. This is a subject that 21CL should certainly investigate further... will add some more thoughts later.
 

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Blabbernsmoke said:
All of this attention being paid to grand projects and wealthy retail companies is good news for Liverpool. But I think urgent attention should be paid to encouraging more traditional markets. And when I say 'traditional', I mean proper ones that are cheap to rent and relatively unregulated. I hate these pretend markets where there is very little activity, and things have been made to look all heritagey.
Generating 'traditional' markets causes problems with modern health and safety laws, though I'm in agreement with you 100%. The UK has spent the last fourty years getting rid of its traditional shopping culture, not only in terms of markets but also in terms of small traditional shops, with proper assistance. Note every High Street in Britain is starting to look the same, same stores, same logos and very little real choice because at the end of the day the issue is about choice. This is where the Quiggins of this world are trying to fly in the face of growth. Street Traders in the UK also have a bad name often because even if it isn't true, there is an assumption that they are selling knocked-off or poor quality goods. Fried food stalls are another issue as well.

Here in Rome, each circoscrizione (suburb) has its own market. Most have been modernised in recent years to comply to new Health and Safety laws but they still have character and on personal experience they sell better quality fruit and veg than you'll find in any supermarket and the clothes are more often cheaper. Shops around markets also benefit from more trade.
Outdoor markets are better for food and veg and indoor markets for other items. I remember the old Birkenhead Market being great as a kid for the range of items. The new one is just not the same at all.
 

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scouserdave said:
^^
Roma mate, the Purley Centre Thursday market in Marsh Farm is still going strong :cheers:
Nobody bothered to buldoze that one then... :runaway:
 

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So much the better for everyone!

Totally Totally Totally agree, Blabs & Tony!

Totally Totally Totally agree!

When I was in LA (1979 eeek!) I went to the `Farmers Market` and it just amazed me `fabulous and incredible` although I suppose having sunshine helps - so much so that when I came back to Liverpool I wrote off to the LCC and included photcopies of the various leaflets etc that I had picked up (Groan, I`m always doing things like that.....)

Try as I might they were just not interested.

My intention was as then and remains the same - Liverpool is VERY poorly served with regards to `Markets` - first time traders I am quite sure have an absolute nightmare trying to set up.

One of the reason why I so often post about `floating markets` in the docks - they can move backwards and forwards according to any trading hot spot they can find and in any case it would add something.....

Give Birmingham its due their market(s) around the `Bull Ring` are superb and well worth a visit any time.

The fish market in Birmingham is excellent - Liverpools three stalls in St Johns Market is truelly pathetic and I don`t even want to talk about it.

You are better off down the `Dock Road` with one of the vans around the Heritage Market and the meat vans are good as well, I`ve had many a good bargain and filled the freezer.

With regards to Birmingham I once (actually on more than one occasion) used to buy a bag of `Chicken Wings` which I quite like, cost £1.

When I got home there were 46 (forty Six) chicken wings!!!

Needless to say I was eating chicken wings for weeks afterwards.

The point is that `Markets` add colour and opportunity - Church Street I must admit is not the place for crappy stalls.

Nevertheless Liverpool must develop a proper `Market Quarter / District` and St Johns in no shape or way is sufficient even though I still go there when I am back in Liverpool and use some still excellent traders.

I have seen something recently about the Stanley dock`The Heritage Market` rebranding itself as `Camden 2` after the London Camden Market.

I also remember being in New York (it was a Sunday) and just off `Fifth Avenue - Midtown` where they were holding a `book fair` and they had `floats` for variously newly releashed books and the `extravaganza` of the hype absolutely astonshied me and the place was packed packed packed!

If Liverpools 21st can in any way possibly help stimulate discussion and development of `New Markets` which should be plentiful and varied - so much the better for everyone!
 

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Blabbernsmoke said:
Sadly, in this country, markets have suffered over the years as councils tend to be anti-enterprise and seem distrustful of schemes to make money (strange, eh?)
A traditional market is being proposed for Central Docks. Councils have been bitten in the past by money-makers, so are weary of them. The council is to serve the needs of the people, which is not necessarily pandering to fly-by-night money-makers.
 

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I always thought they should have pulled down the 60s tat in front of Lime Street and put a little Market thing there, of course all the fruit would have a slight Petrol Fumes taste to it, but that's city living for you!
 

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The Bi-Weekly farmers market at Monument place is quite good, suffered a little since it moved from Chavness Park but it's stilla good trip. (1st and 3rd Saturdays of the month)

the hertaidge market / Camden 2 is shaping up nicely.

Genreally the problem with markets in the UK is the lack of qality goods. meats and fish especially. If you can get the food aspect of markets right your half way there.
 

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You have bought a bargain and that is half of the fun.

Wormella said:
The Bi-Weekly farmers market at Monument place is quite good, suffered a little since it moved from Chavness Park but it's stilla good trip. (1st and 3rd Saturdays of the month)

the hertaidge market / Camden 2 is shaping up nicely.

Genreally the problem with markets in the UK is the lack of qality goods. meats and fish especially. If you can get the food aspect of markets right your half way there.
Absolutely Wormella,

Markets (good markets) are much more of a shopping experience.

Smells, sights and sounds.

Portabello Market in London which I haven`t been back to for thirty years remains in my memory for the sheer hustle and bustle of the place and the selling of china table ware. How they could throw it around so much and not break it was totally beyond me.

What I do love about a good market is the food.....the sight and smells.
You want to eat yourself around them and try a bit of this and that - even if I don`t.

But you buy a bargain or at least you tell yourself that you have bought a bargain and you go home beliveing that you have bought a bargain and that is half of the fun.
 

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Is Tuebrook Market still going? My old fella used to drag me down there most weekends, as well as the Heritage many times. I used to hate it, but now I look back with fond memories. Strange how times and perceptions change. :)
 

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Pobbie Rarr said:
Is Tuebrook Market still going? My old fella used to drag me down there most weekends, as we as the Heritage many times. I used to hate it, but now I look back with fond memories. Strange how times and perceptions change. :)
The one above Newsham Park next to the railway line and police station? Yeah. They also do car auctions. I bought one for £20 a few years ago. Drove it down to London and sold it for £50. Result! :)
 
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