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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
MAKE have been chosen to revamp the NEC out of the 5 shortlisted. Not much really to report as of yet, but it deserves its own thread. I've highlighted the key points.

* Needed to stay ahead of foreign competition
* Might include small casino
* More will be reveleaed in September
* There will be a range of innovative and exciting future additions
* Details are "shrouded" in secrecy
* Gonna be big
* Overarching strategy to improve facilties
* An addendum to what's there already
* Allow the NEC to develop in a buisness way it isnt at the moment


Great, but again we're being made to wait for the details. Surely if its been chosen out of a shortlist they must have produced some sort of plan. :sleepy:
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
At this point in time, I dont really see many major companies wanting to work in Birmingham. Ken Shuttleworth moving back home has probably saved the council's back. His bailing them out of quite a few mishaps and is probably winning contracts for other work on that basis alone.
 

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SimLim said:
At this point in time, I dont really see many major companies wanting to work in Birmingham. Ken Shuttleworth moving back home has probably saved the council's back. His bailing them out of quite a few mishaps and is probably winning contracts for other work on that basis alone.
What are you basing this on? The major companies bit, i mean?

This is exactly the sort of negative Brummie shit that gets my back up. How on earth can we complain about the negative image others have of us when we are like this?

Shuttleworth isnt an idiot, he wouldn't have bothered with any projects in Brum if it weren't financially viable, he isn't doing it out of some philanthropic urge, you know.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Companies are quite clearly finding it hard to work with the inept council and there stubborn approach. HOK, Alsop, Rogers all have reservations about touching the city and who can blame them. They've been scared off by a coalition which cant even decide the best way forward for the regeneration of the city.

Quote from Alsop "When push comes to shove, they get nervous and want to do normal. They need a braveness to continue that is'nt there at the moment. Im not putting off working there but I would be wary to go back"

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I dont mind MAKE and Ken Shutteworth, infact everything he has proposed for the city so far I've liked although he really needs to get away from the sharp pointy angles which seem to be his trademark. We dont need those on every building in the city. And believe me, I am not a negative Brummie, infact im probably one of the most optimistic I just have my reservations with where the city is going. We've been in a rut for years now and we aint getting out for a while.
 

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To be honest, it is mostly the cities that have got nervous around Alsop, which is why he hardly gets a look in in the UK. And when he does, you get shite like that thing in West Brom.

And Brum is hardly in a rut, there is plenty of development going on and has been for a long time.

I think maybe we need to think back to what Brum was like in the mid 80s (basically, like Bucharest) to remind ourselves just how much has gone on in a relatively short period of time.

And as for sharp pointy angles being Shuttleworth's trademark, have you looked at Swiss Re recently?
 

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pauliewalnuts said:
To be honest, it is mostly the cities that have got nervous around Alsop, which is why he hardly gets a look in in the UK. And when he does, you get shite like that thing in West Brom.
I disagree that the pUBLIC is shite. I don't know if you've been to site or inside the building but I have and while I too was a little dubious about this project initially, I have been completely converted and believe it will be an incredible facility for the pEOPLE of West Bromwich.

Seen within the context of the town centre and rest of the imminent developments it's going to one of the better contemporary buildings in our area. If you don't believe me take a stroll through the town and the Queens shopping centre.

Inside it has an unusual series of H frames which forming the steel structure which were painted pink and felt like being inside the ribcage of a giant whale. When I visited it was still some time from completion (and still is) but some of the interior spaces were already breathtaking.

You can’t simply call the pUBLIC shite by judging it from photographs of the Alsop aesthetic exterior. It’s has been a highly democratic and inclusive community project and will be a bold focal point for West Bromwich.

Ok, they didn’t cost the building properly but it will get finished eventually. I just hope they don’t fill it with cheap and nasty furniture.

This building will do great things for the town and I wouldn’t be surprised if it made the Stirling prize shortlist.

I did notice that the windows on the ground floor were rose tinted pink which I thought a little strange but it was still in construction and I look forward to when it's finished.

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As for firms steering away from Birmingham, It doesn't suprise me. Everyone knows that the wankers we have in charge at the moment couldn't arrange a piss up in a world class brewery. You can't blame Rogers for saying that, RRP will have invested a huge amount of time in the library scheme
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
pauliewalnuts said:
And Brum is hardly in a rut, there is plenty of development going on and has been for a long time.
Now lets have a quote from Ken Shuttleworth himself "The city needs a push in terms of quality, It seems not much has happened recently" who can argue with the local boy. HCT is below average considering what was first planned, Orion is turning out to be a huge dissapointment and Masshouse although one of my favourites has very limited quality. I just dont see how you can believe Birmingham is pushing boundaries or even beggining to touch its capabilties. Its hard to tell you this, but some even believe Birmingham has fallen behind Liverpool and Newcastle in terms of development. Two cities we should be flying away from.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Rigadon said:
He did the sea life centre- easily the worst buildign in brindley place.
Could'nt agree more. Everytime I see it I just want to kick those crappy silver panels off.
 

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Simlim, trust me, birmingham is deffintely not behind newcastle and is lightyears ahead...trust someone who lives there lol......

i cant help ut hink that ur being a little over dramatic there Sim....... birmingham is pushing boundaris....just look at the cube!!! yes, we are in a little bit of a rut.... but what that article fails to state is that these certain developments uch as paradise and arena central are not dead and are progressing.....

ofcourse i wish birmingham was developing faster and i am envious sometimes when i look at the likes of manchester, but we are getting there!

there are some very interesting developments ahead and u can blame the new council for that. afterall, if labour cam into poewer, then the entire thing woudl happen again.....ie developments halted on political grounds.....cons/lib are in power, let them settle down and see what they have to offer!
 

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The problem for me with brum is how poorly it capitalises on the good bits. Anything remotely cool that gets done in most cities gets jumped on and people try to build a momentum. When the Bullring opened there was a huge amount of good will and praise heading brums way for once and instead of building on it they seem to have let it die down again. At the end of the day it is all about expectations and confidence. Think about it from the private investors view, there is so much uncertainty in Brum and nobody is doing much about it, the council are even making it worse (what private developer is going to look fondly on working with a council that ditched one of its last major partners, Rogers?).

Its all about PR and spin and until Brum starts translating projects like the cube, rotunda and bullring into bigger gains then the city will struggle. Yes there are some good projects out there but there could be so many more and others should be of greater quality. You've got to have a confident environment in which investors can take risks. The underlying risks may be as bad but the perception of them can be reduced.

Birmingham has perhaps the most potential for bold architecture in Britain because it has a history of it. The 60's crap of old offers up huge tracts of potential without too much heritage stuff getting the way of boldness. Birmingham cannot build what other cities build, it has to be a calibre above and of daring design so that the stigma of the concrete jungle can be lifted once and for all. Selfridges proved that the way forward is boldness, everybody was astounded by it and Brum rode a wave! Don't just suffice!

Failing that try a therapist! :)

Oh and make again? :yawn:
 

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woodhousen said:
Simlim, trust me, birmingham is deffintely not behind newcastle and is lightyears ahead...trust someone who lives there lol......
There's a massive amount of Building going on in Liverpool, possibly more than in Birmingham when they were doing the Bull ring up and everything else, as it seemed, in the early naughties.

Not too much tall, 'cept the (in my 'umble, horrible) Unity Buildings, but the Kings Dock/L1 and others it's loads.
 

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This has turned into another round of self-flagellation :(

Alsop is a knob so I don't really care what he thinks.

MAKE are good, and I am happy to see them work here. I think the council are wise in keeping Shuttleworth sweet - get a couple of good buildings out of him and the other big architects will follow :) I will judge the NEC on its merits though. I am glad that something is going to happen there

Richard Rogers was PAID for the work on the Library. It was a bad move booting him out - I am sure he will be badmouthing Brum to Blair :(

And Foster is too busy designing buildings in other countries, and IMHO, he is a little passe now.
 

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Prestonian said:
The problem for me with brum is how poorly it capitalises on the good bits. Anything remotely cool that gets done in most cities gets jumped on and people try to build a momentum. When the Bullring opened there was a huge amount of good will and praise heading brums way for once and instead of building on it they seem to have let it die down again. At the end of the day it is all about expectations and confidence. Think about it from the private investors view, there is so much uncertainty in Brum and nobody is doing much about it, the council are even making it worse (what private developer is going to look fondly on working with a council that ditched one of its last major partners, Rogers?).

Its all about PR and spin and until Brum starts translating projects like the cube, rotunda and bullring into bigger gains then the city will struggle. Yes there are some good projects out there but there could be so many more and others should be of greater quality. You've got to have a confident environment in which investors can take risks. The underlying risks may be as bad but the perception of them can be reduced.

Birmingham has perhaps the most potential for bold architecture in Britain because it has a history of it. The 60's crap of old offers up huge tracts of potential without too much heritage stuff getting the way of boldness. Birmingham cannot build what other cities build, it has to be a calibre above and of daring design so that the stigma of the concrete jungle can be lifted once and for all. Selfridges proved that the way forward is boldness, everybody was astounded by it and Brum rode a wave! Don't just suffice!

Failing that try a therapist! :)

Oh and make again? :yawn:
The Rogers Library plan was dropped because it was getting too expensive, and no-one put a lid on the final cost of the project. It started at £100 million, and just before it was scrapped, the cost was heading towards £200 million.

There is plenty going on in the city at the moment, both small and large scale projects. Masshouse, part of the £6 billion regeneration of Eastside, is a huge project and one of (if not THE) largest city centre developments currently under way in any British city.

Arena Central will start this year, and this will do as much for Birmingham city centre as the Internationally award winning Brindleyplace & the Bullring ....... it will be a stunning project, and will be the envy of every city in Britain!
 

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FLD said:
Arena Central will start this year, and this will do as much for Birmingham city centre as the Internationally award winning Brindleyplace & the Bullring ....... it will be a stunning project, and will be the envy of every city in Britain!
Do you actually know something, or are you just incredibly optimistic? :)
 

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FLD said:
The Rogers Library plan was dropped because it was getting too expensive, and no-one put a lid on the final cost of the project. It started at £100 million, and just before it was scrapped, the cost was heading towards £200 million.
Ok fair comment and exactly what Whitters has been telling us, by contrast, he is also telling us the new library which may or may not be built at Centenary Square or may or may not be one of three radically different designs will come in at exactly £104 million, if Rogers design was pie in the sky and bound to lead to cost increases I can't see how the new split site Library plan is any better at all.

Everyone knows the whole Library fiasco was political, and at the end of the day that ethos is what is putting off cutting edge development in Birmingham, noone is going to invest a load of cash in a scheme which the cabinet maychange their mind on at sometime down the track.
 

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by the time they actually decide to build a new library it will probably cost over 200m anyway. Time is money and all this faffing about only puts more money on the ticking meter
 
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