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10th February 2008
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59,945 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Maybe the word is finally reaching London about Manchester and what it has to offer!?


Sorry!:hilarious

Taken from todays MEN!

Boom city beats brain drain

THOUSANDS of Londoners are abandoning the capital in favour of Greater Manchester.

Nearly twice as many people are moving north than going in the opposite direction.

Political and business chiefs hailed the latest figures as proof that years of "brain drain" were being reversed by Greater Manchester's booming city-centre economy and growing reputation as a Mecca for culture, shopping and entertainment.

The figures, published by the Office for National Statistics, show 6,700 Londoners moved to Greater Manchester in 2003.

They were joined by 4,400 people from other parts of the south east.

By contrast, only 5,900 people moved from Greater Manchester to London.

Richard Leese, leader of Manchester council, said the figures showed the city rivalled and in some ways outstripped London as a place to live and work.

Business

He said: "In a lot of ways we are moving ahead. Shopping is better in Manchester - there might be a bigger range in London but it takes several weeks to go round them all because they are so far apart.

"The quality of life is better. And we have better countryside within a short distance."

Manchester has recently pulled off a number of high-profile coups, led by the BBC's decision to relocate thousands of jobs and departments, including children's television and Radio Five, to the city.

In the business world, the Bank of New York has chosen Piccadilly as its British base.

The Manchester Evening News is also spearheading a drive to make the region the Whitehall of the North as the government pushes through plans to relocate more than 20,000 civil servants from Whitehall.

Neil Fountain, chief executive of Manchester Investment and Development Agency Service (MIDAS), said: "Businesses are increasingly more interested in locating somewhere in Manchester, particularly with the overheating economy in the south east.

"Companies find it is more cost-effective than in London in terms of property and labour costs. They also get a better quality of labour - a lot of people when they set up find the staff are more committed, more flexible and offer better customer care."
 
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bob - did you read that article?

It says Greater Manchester is attracting - Greater Manchester (I don't think) has never been decreasing, simpy people moving from the centre - city of Manchester to the suburbs, e.g. Trafford, Stockport, Bury etc.

I would imagine that in more recent years the population of Manchester (proper) will be declining by much much less than it was previously or even stabilised and started to rise slightly.
 
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bob - if you want to understand things that are written about the area, you will have to accept (like it or not) that locals - including the local media, swap the terms Manchester and Greater Manchester a lot.

This has been discussed loads elsewhere and does not need re-hashing here.
 
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P.S. jrb - your Glazer pictures are a good try, but shouldn't you be more concerned by Eddie Jordan supposedly wanting to buy your lot up?

P.S. is your signature meant to be ironic given your last few posts with Glazer in?
 

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I miss a hot dog
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Oh please. This is meaningless, self congratulatory local journalism of the very worst sort.

It probably dosen't deserve the honour of a Potato Man post, let alone a thread of it's own. This sort of one off statistical manipulation for an easy story really pisses me off.

Now I might respect the statistic if I knew how it had been calculated, if it was part of a time series or if it included data for other cities (e.g. London/Bristol , Bristol/London, Bristol/Manchester and Manchester/Bristol migration). If something like that had been done we might have been able to draw conclusions, it would have been worth presenting to our city fathers for a quote. But in it's current state, you would be doing your chips a disservice by wrapping them in it.
 
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Potato Man said:
Oh please. This is meaningless, self congratulatory local journalism of the very worst sort.

It probably dosen't deserve the honour of a Potato Man post, let alone a thread of it's own. This sort of one off statistical manipulation for an easy story really pisses me off.

Now I might respect the statistic if I knew how it had been calculated, if it was part of a time series or if it included data for other cities (e.g. London/Bristol , Bristol/London, Bristol/Manchester and Manchester/Bristol migration). If something like that had been done we might have been able to draw conclusions, it would have been worth presenting to our city fathers for a quote. But in it's current state, you would be doing your chips a disservice by wrapping them in it.
According to ONS Manchester is the fastest growing conurbation in the country after London and will continue to be for the next 25 years. Also, out of all the councils that make up Manchester, the city council itself has the fastest growing population. Is that respectable enough for you?
 
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Nobby said:
EB - give it a rest.

The article is very very selective in the figures it is using, as you are being to.
I'm not being selective at all. ONS have population projections for all urban councils in the UK, giving estimated figures for every year up until 2028. Out of all the conurbations Manchester has by far the fastest growing population (around the same the conurbations of Birmingham and Leeds combined). If you're going to claim I'm being selective, at least bother giving a reason why so I can show you how much crap you're talking.
 

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I miss a hot dog
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600 Posts
It's not the figures themselves that I object to. Just the way the article uses them. It suggests that people are deserting London like rats from a sinking ship and setting up camp in Manchester, but as you say London is in fact the fastest growing region in the country.

I don't dispute that Manchester is undergoing something of a renaissance at the moment, but we still have a long way to go. To claim the 'brain drain' has finally been beaten is pure nonsense.
 
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Also, the population of the country is rising, who is to say that more people moved into London from abroad, and a net number of people left London, with Manchester taking the lowest percentage of them.

The article is one sided, poor journalism.
 
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At least it shows that Manchester as a city is now capable of competing with London for people. A few years ago the net flow of people would be from Manchester to the south east. If this has been reversed then there's no doubt that it's a good thing.
 
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Nobby said:
Also, the population of the country is rising, who is to say that more people moved into London from abroad, and a net number of people left London, with Manchester taking the lowest percentage of them.

The article is one sided, poor journalism.
So wheres this explanation of how I was one-sided then? The reason I posted the facts I did was precisely to prove that what you wrote above wasn't true. It's not poor journalism in terms of getting the story right. They simply didn't cite all sources.
 

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These are tiny figures in the overall scheme of things and we can't place too much weight on them. Having said that, we've met quite a few people around Chester who, like me and the wife, have recently come up from London and the South East. Anecdotal, but we were surprised. Even more surprised by the number of Dutch folk around here.
 
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Nobby said:
Not in this post EB, just in general.
I'll grant, sometimes the information I post is rather one-sided. Why? It's to counteract the effects of people like Liverpolitan and Harrogate #1. If they stop posting crap like "Leeds is the fastest growing city in the UK" or "Manchester is full of tramps and dog shit" then I might not be quite so one-sided in my replies to them.
 

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10th February 2008
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59,945 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Potato Man!

Its not that bad!?(honest!)

Reading between the lines and taking the gloss of it, there is some truth in the article!

Not so long ago anywhere in the North was a no-no for anyone living in London and the South East. The mere thought of moving to the North, with its cold climate, grey skies and back alleyways was enough to send many a Lovie straight to the Priory Clinic! However as the North and the Northern cities have changed, so has the view of chattering classes in London!
No longer do they consider the North and its cities to be God forsaken places ! In fact, many that have moved "UP NORTH" have been very surprised by the quality of life they have found and now live! As the word spreads, so has the realization that the North offers a quality of life equal to that of London and the South East. As a result, whether because of work or because of the poor quality and expense of life in London and the South East, more and more Londoners/Southeners have decided to give up living in London to find a better quality of life in the North!
Yes the article was very simplistic, but facts are facts!(or stats are stats) More and more Londoners/Southerners are moving "UP NORTH!"

Let the trend continue! :)
 

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I'd be interested to know whose these people moving away from London are. Are they the indigenous who feel priced out/driven out of their original communities by 'yuppies' or high flyers? Or are they the once graduates now fed up with their consultancy careers and want to bring up a family - but don't want to get away from a 24 hour city feel?

Either way, proportionally 6,700 Londoners is about 0.0009% of its population moving to Manchester compared to 0.024% (5,900) of Manchester population moving to London.

London has always been a stopping temporary point for many people since its 'birth'. It has grown and shrunk in size so rapidly in terms of population usually affected by economy or mass immigration (or previous government attempts to deliberately get people to live in new towns - Milton Keynes). Its still on target to reach 8 million in a few years.
 
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