Skyscraper City Forum banner
1 - 20 of 151 Posts

·
10th February 2008
Joined
·
61,534 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm not saying the bubble has burst.

And there are some very well run and sound property developers in Manchester like Allied London, Bruntwood, Renaker, Peel Holdings, Urban Splash, U+I, Capital and Centric, etc, who will stand the test of time.. But there are also some not so well run property developers, who I think have jumped on the residential bandwagon boom in Manchester, hoping to make a killing. Exactly like the last property boom in the city.

It seems a few prominent developments/towers are struggling to get off the ground ATM. Oxygen, 10-12 Whitworth Street, and Riverview, but to name 3, amongst other's with planning permission, but still not onsite.

I appreciate there were always going to be casualties with the amount of residential proposals coming forward in Manchester, but are we know seeing a few of the bigger residential proposals/towers falling by the wayside due to funding and construction cost issues, as well as possible over supply of apartments in the city centre, and a slowing down demand from UK and International investors?

TBH I don't think we can grumble. Or should I say, I shouldn't grumble. The current boom has brought countless residential apartment blocks and towers to the city, with many more under construction, and more to follow. This is also the case for Office blocks, etc. But I think I'm just sensing a slight slowdown in apartment blocks and towers actually being built. I appreciate I could well be wrong. Fingers crossed. :)
 

·
10th February 2008
Joined
·
61,534 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What is it you say jrb, these things take time. Things will be happening behind the scenes. ;)
They do.

But I'm hearing not very encouraging noises on at least 1 of those 3 developments I mentioned.

Funnily enough, I don't have any concerns about our Office developments. I think most will happen due to the on-going demand for office space in the city centre from here, the UK and abroad. Same with Hotels. I just think we're due 1 or 2 disappointments on the residential front. Otherwise known as stalled proposals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,720 Posts
There's a feeling in the industry that residential is a bit overbaked in Manchester at the moment. I still know nothing about what has happened with Riverview - but I doubt it's anything significant as Riverside is doing fine next door

A lot of developers are waiting for the current schemes to complete construction to see how they sell before progressing their own plans. I think that's fair enough.

But there's still lots of demand for offices and student accommodation in Manchester which should carry us for the next few years - and also the hotels market is beginning to pick up once more too. I doubt we're going to have a mega 2008-style crash any time soon, but it's feasible to suggest that we may not see as many residential proposals in 2018/19 as we did in 2016/17.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
2 Posts
They do.

But I'm hearing not very encouraging noises on at least 1 of those 3 developments I mentioned.

Funnily enough, I don't have any concerns about our Office developments. I think most will happen due to the on-going demand for office space in the city centre from here, the UK and abroad. Same with Hotels. I just think we're due 1 or 2 disappointments on the residential front. Otherwise known as stalled proposals.
Hotels, office and student we have a shortage of I agree. My main concern, and I've voiced it before has always been PRS residential. You need a balance. I cant see Oxygen starting anytime soon. Riverview hopefully sooner rather than later as Select Property are a decent developer. 10-12 Whitworth street, I hope we see more than both the above. That is my favourite.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,630 Posts
Not to open that can of worms again. But it's worth considering that living costs are going up, and country is in a period of major uncertainty. I'd be surprised if there weren't any developments hitting issues. Prices are heating up, so perhaps developers anticipate a slowdown as this coincides with rising living costs.

Plus you said it yourself. "Not so well run developers". 10-12 Whitworth's lot are very unproven and arguably landbankers, Riverview has all the Carillion issues to contend with, and with Oxygen it may be the case that they're simply waiting for Axis to get further along before committing to more risk.

5Plus tweeted about Oxygen today so I very much doubt it's been shitcanned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
415 Posts
I imagine a correction in prices at the top end of the market is more likely - particularly for smaller new build flats in the 300k+range. Developers by nature are always going to try to push it and create a new norm for city centre pricing. So far they have been successful in this but they may face more resistance now. Looking at the market as a whole though, I expect prices to continue to outpace the rest of the UK until 2020 (barring no economic/Brexit related disasters). Developments like Manchester New Square are asking for a lot of money when you consider what you can get if you look at period properties at the same price. Rising prices also means the same yields aren't there for more investors now either.

As the city centre expands I hope both Manchester and Salford councils try to integrate more townhouse style developments (Timekeeper's Square, the townhouse element of Vimto, The Roof Gardens etc). If they don't do this then there will be a very poor residential mix which will have a variety of negative long-term effects - one of which will be pushing up the cost of the very limited supply of city centre townhouses.

The lack of real quality housing stock/good neighbourhoods outside of the city centre - particularly in the eyes of these relocating from areas like London means I expect areas like Didsbury to continue to increase for a few years yet.
 

·
Alex
Joined
·
1,137 Posts
Surely to enable the boom to continue, the city needs to up its game in terms of its central core and retail offering?

You’d come to look to move into the city and see what’s on offer and I think that, more often than not, people would be left feeling pretty underwhelmed. The Arndale centre for one. Piccadilly Gardens for another. A lack of cultural offerings. There really isn’t that much to do in Manchester City centre. We’ve not long had some nice bowling alleys introduced, junkyard golf is a good addition too, as are the breakout rooms etc. We need more though. And we need a good scrub down.

Manchester has the potential to be so much better than it already is.

Birmingham and Liverpool already have one over on us as far as I’m concerned when you look at Liverpool One and the Bullring/Grand Central.

Simply put, you can’t keep expanding the city residentially, but yet leave everything else how it was. More little shopping districts are needed on the periphery etc.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
381 Posts
Surely to enable the boom to continue, the city needs to up its game in terms of its central core and retail offering?

You’d come to look to move into the city and see what’s on offer and I think that, more often than not, people would be left feeling pretty underwhelmed. The Arndale centre for one. Piccadilly Gardens for another. A lack of cultural offerings. There really isn’t that much to do in Manchester City centre. We’ve not long had some nice bowling alleys introduced, junkyard golf is a good addition too, as are the breakout rooms etc. We need more though. And we need a good scrub down.

Manchester has the potential to be so much better than it already is.

Birmingham and Liverpool already have one over on us as far as I’m concerned when you look at Liverpool One and the Bullring/Grand Central.

Simply put, you can’t keep expanding the city residentially, but yet leave everything else how it was. More little shopping districts are needed on the periphery etc.
Manchester simply can’t compete with Liverpool on any level these days, it hit me pretty hard on a recent trip how far ahead it is. The restaurant scene over there is easily comparable, and as for culture it’s streets ahead. I drove around for 20 minutes trying to find a cheap surface car park, in Manchester they’re on every corner.

Manchester is a dump, plain and simple.
 

·
10th February 2008
Joined
·
61,534 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
F*** off Norris!

Stick to Warrington and the Cultural delights of IKEA.

Then again I could be wrong.

But when you have the Chinese backing a development, there should be no funding concerns.

 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,093 Posts
People are moving out though. People who lived in my building long term have had enough quite frankly, were considering it ourselves, fed up of being followed around by addicts threatening us for money and having to swerve gangs at Piccadilly Gardens and Tib Street. The walk from Piccadilly to Market Street to Tib Street was awful this evening, anybody visiting for the first time would never come back. I struggle to see these developments become full. Town used to be edgy after 11, now it's after 8.
 

·
DJ MedZ
Joined
·
2,577 Posts
That the best you can do Norris ?? lol - poor Jrb eh bet he feels really hurt with that IKEA dig. I remember a scouse lad coming on the Manc Forums years back - he said there wasn't enough McDonalds in Mcr centre that's why Manchester wasn't as good as Liverpool - It was you wasn't it you lil scruff.
surface carparks ha - future scraper sites you mean.
 

·
DJ MedZ
Joined
·
2,577 Posts
People are moving out though. People who lived in my building long term have had enough quite frankly, were considering it ourselves, fed up of being followed around by addicts threatening us for money and having to swerve gangs at Piccadilly Gardens and Tib Street. The walk from Piccadilly to Market Street to Tib Street was awful this evening, anybody visiting for the first time would never come back. I struggle to see these developments become full. Town used to be edgy after 11, now it's after 8.
There are certain areas that have dipped but plenty of new areas are being created -
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
381 Posts
That the best you can do Norris ?? lol - poor Jrb eh bet he feels really hurt with that IKEA dig. I remember a scouse lad coming on the Manc Forums years back - he said there wasn't enough McDonalds in Mcr centre that's why Manchester wasn't as good as Liverpool - It was you wasn't it you lil scruff.
surface carparks ha - future scraper sites you mean.
Jesus Christ what an absolute state
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,198 Posts
The walk from Piccadilly to Market Street to Tib Street was awful this evening.


I think it's a known fact though, sad but true. A lot of people are aware of how bad it is getting around Piccadilly. Probably the worst within the City Centre. I think towards Deansgate around Spinningfields, St Peters Square, Castlefield is pretty safe enough. Reflects on prices though.
 

·
Charity-Spring
Joined
·
3,277 Posts
I'm genuinely sad to find out that Norris Cole is on Crack."Manchester can't compete with Liverpool" is the best one-liner ever,but it doesn't dilute the sadness of his addiction. The city has been watching Manchester develop since the IRA bomb and has yet to reply. Instead it has lay in a state of torpor and is fast becoming a poor relation.
But Norris is the man in the know.
On a final note.....Get to fek Norris you bin-dipping eejit.
 
1 - 20 of 151 Posts
Top