Skyscraper City Forum banner
1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
10th February 2008
Joined
·
60,602 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Let's look at some of the facts.

Media. Peel along with SCC persuaded the BBC to relocate to Salford Quays instead of Manchester's Central Spine. Manchester will lose 600 jobs from the BBC's headquarters on Oxford Road and all of the other promised jobs assoiciated with the BBC move North. Peel is now trying to convince Granada to leave Quay Street and to join the BBC at Media City. By all accounts MCC are desperately trying to persuade Granada to stay in Manchester.

Retail. The Trafford Centre. Love it or hate it, it's a success. It attracts millions of shoppers every year. The very shoppers that would have shopped in Manchester City Centre instead. Yes, Manchester City Centre has fought back after the IRA bomb, but it would be twice, if not three times as busy without the competition of the Trafford centre.

Metrolink. There's no sign of Peel wanting (to pay for) the Metrolink extension from Manchester City Centre, through Trafford Park, and on to the Trafford Centre. Why would they? Why would Peel want shoppers to leave the Trafford centre and catch the tram into Manchester City centre to do the their shopping there. Yet Peel have a Metrolink extension planned for Mediacity and will fund it.

Airports. Peel own JLA and have expanded it to such an extent that it is now a genuine competator to MIA. Like it or not, it is a threat. It's services have steadily increased and it has taken millions of flights from Manchester Airport and millions of pounds form the 10 Councils of Greater Manchester which own it.

Offices. Peel have two huge schemes planned for the Liverpool waterfront. Wirral Waters and Liverpool Waters. Both are huge schemes and if they are to come to fruition and succeed Peel will need to attract national and international companies to fill the proposed towers. The very same companies Manchester is and has been trying to attract for years.

Concluding.

I'm sure the leaders of Manchester City Council are genuinely worried by the threat that Peel poses to Manchester. They have already cost the city thousands of jobs and millions of pounds of investment. Unfortunately for Manchester the situation can only get worse.

Can I just say that this thread is not about Liverpool, nor is it pop at Liverpool. It's about Peel. The fact that Peel have chosen to invest in Liverpool is irrelevant. (good luck to Liverpool) I would have wrote the same if Peel had invested in Leeds or Birmingham. This thread is about Peel's perceived threat to Manchester. Nothing else.
 

·
Fugly
Joined
·
11,311 Posts
Of course. A major landowner wanting to maximise profits from its land. That's what happens when private companies are allowed to flourish in a relatively free market. Don't worry though. I'm sure the NWDA and/or central government will reject any major airport expansion at Liverpool John Lennon and scupper Liverpool & Wirral Waters, in the name of regionalism of course. You'll always have that. :)

The MediaCity argument is as irrelevent as it is posible to get. Long term, Manc will probably develop a bi-polar city centre around the existing city centre and the quays.

Is this a thread about Peel Holdings being a threat to Manchester, or a thinly veiled attack at free enterprise?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
967 Posts
It's an interesting view, but the jobs at BBC Oxford Road will not be lost, just moved a couple of miles away to Salford Quays. Also, thousands of jobs will be created within the Greater Manchester area both directly and indirectly, just a couple of miles from the city centre of Manchester. Where do you think those employees will spend their money. Most likely Manchester city centre. Salford is not the shoppers big attraction, Manchester is. Also, Manchester city centre shops are not just inside the Arndale, most are outside of it, especially the better ones.

The problem for media city was finding a suitable site, especially in size close to the centre. Most of Manchester city centre is now apartments or the land is owned by companies who are in the process of applying to build developments. The Granada site would be the last available site as it said on the news, but that would have depended of them selling it. They would only do that if they moved to the 'Media City' with the BBC, so catch 22.
 

·
10th February 2008
Joined
·
60,602 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Of course. A major landowner wanting to maximise profits from its land. That's what happens when private companies are allowed to flourish in a relatively free market. Don't worry though. I'm sure the NWDA and/or central government will reject any major airport expansion at Liverpool John Lennon and scupper Liverpool & Wirral Waters, in the name of regionalism of course. You'll always have that. :)
That's all well and good Bunnyman. Try telling Howard Bernstein and Manchester City Council that. Peel pose a huge threat to Manchester. There is no love lost between the City Council and Peel. I'm 100% sure MCC see Peel as a major thread to Manchester's future business and economic prosperity.

The MediaCity argument is as irrelevent as it is posible to get. Long term, Manc will probably develop a bi-polar city centre around the existing city centre and the quays.
Manchester cannot afford to lose Granada aswell. It was bad enough that it lost the BBC, but losing Granada would be a disaster for the city. The independents will follow aswell. Once the media companies have left Manchester for Media City they won't return. That's why MCC a desperately trying to persued ITV to stay in the city.

Is this a thread about Peel Holdings being a threat to Manchester, or a thinly veiled attack at free enterprise?
It's about Peel being a threat to Manchester. As for free enterprise. Unfortunately it works both ways.

Let me put it like this.

Peel Holdings. A company form over here, that's doing very well over there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Born IN Salford, it makes an interesting question, how does Peel impact the Greater Manchester conurbation as a whole? Overall, is it positive or negative?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,396 Posts
competition within a city region is a good thing, its perhaps the biggest contributing factor that has led london to be leading new york as the worlds premier financial city as it is doing right now.. this has happened because the corp of lond (ie the city) lost its monopoly to canay wharf in tower hamlets ad and increasing amount of tenants to westminster and parts of camden and southwark, this has the reaction of causing all involved to raise their game. the fact that manchester is developing the same way is nothing to be scared of
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,183 Posts
I totally agree about the Trafford Centre with has taken a vast amount of turnover from MCC and has undoubtedly weakened its standing. As for Media City I'd be back-flipping and cartwheeling down the street with such a bad boy devdelopment on the city centre's doorstep.
 

·
the man who builds cities
Joined
·
480 Posts
thats an interesting point youve raised there jrb!

although MCC and everyone else involved in the BBC bid were disapointed, it meant alot more to salford quays.

I'd like to think of the city as more of a collective field of MBC, and as well as the quays go, they will never properly rival the city centre.
And as far as the BBC are concerned, they are still moving to Manchester.

However Peel's interest in Liverpool and the plans they have do worry me, because once that takes off, where will Peels best interests lay?
Would they sell Greater Manchester down the canal, for a rent cheque by the mersey?
 

·
10th February 2008
Joined
·
60,602 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
thats an interesting point youve raised there jrb!

although MCC and everyone else involved in the BBC bid were disapointed, it meant alot more to salford quays.

I'd like to think of the city as more of a collective field of MBC, and as well as the quays go, they will never properly rival the city centre.
And as far as the BBC are concerned, they are still moving to Manchester.

However Peel's interest in Liverpool and the plans they have do worry me, because once that takes off, where will Peels best interests lay?
Would they sell Greater Manchester down the canal, for a rent cheque by the mersey?
I think there's two important points here Chase.

Firstly, Peel's relationship with Manchester City Council and Manchester. There isn't one. Even though Peel are based a couple of miles from Manchester, they have no investments or interests in the City what so ever. Infact, their agenda, if there is one, is to take business and investment out of Manchester. To my knowledge they haven't ever invested in Manchester either.

Secondly. Peel's plans for Media City, Wirral Waters and the Liverpool Waterfront.
If these three projects become reality and succeed, it could have a devastating longterm business and economic effect on Manchester.
 

·
Cowboy of Love
Joined
·
8,096 Posts
I'll think you'll find jerbil that Peel do have lots of interests in Manchester in ways i cant be bothered to go into now but may not be immediately obvious.
 

·
10th February 2008
Joined
·
60,602 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'll think you'll find jerbil that Peel do have lots of interests in Manchester in ways i cant be bothered to go into now but may not be immediately obvious.
Don't be like that. That's just being lazy. Go on then..........
 

·
Cowboy of Love
Joined
·
8,096 Posts
Land, buildings, property development...that kind of stuff.
Just because it doesnt say Peel on the box dont mean it aint Peel inside.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,914 Posts
Although you have some valid concerns jerbs there's a few things you should consider first.

Media. It makes no difference to Gtr Mcr whether the Media City is located at the so-called 'central spine' or the Quays. If Granada decide to move, their existing (prime) site will be sold off and redeveloped.
The spin-off businesses will still benefit the city of Mcr proper, so no real loss and a big gain for the region. I seriously doubt if it's anything to do with some hidden 'agenda' on Peel's part.

Retail. The Trafford Centre pulls in millions of shoppers from all over the north west and many places beyond. The last time I was in downtown Manchester it was as usual, teeming with shoppers, asamatterofact you wouldn't want it to be any more congested than what it is already. Considering it's only four miles from the TC, it's holding it's own as the fourth busiest in the UK! I would think we actually owe Peel for taking up some of our surplus on this one!

Metrolink. A spur to the TC has been planned for a long time and I believe it's to be funded or partially funded by Peel. If they (Peel) are prepared to build a line into Media City they will do it to the TC for the same reasons--to pull people in, but remember it works both ways--if shoppers can get to the TC easier--they can also go the opposite direction into town just as easy. I'm sure Peel have tons of data and projections on this score.

Airports. Well, Peel picked LPL up for a song, (a John Lennon song :) )
They have tapped into the rapidly growing low cost short haul market and LPL just happens to fit the 'no-frills' model for this type of travel. That's not to say MAN cannot attract some lo-co carriers as well, it's just that MAN has been forced into some 'real' competition for a change. It's just not growing as fast as earlier projections and has revised them accordingly. I think the operating team at MAN are quite aware of what they have to do to compete and where their strengths lie. The growth forecast may have been revised downward, but MAN will still grow exponentially and be handling about 30 million pax by 2015. Kudos to Peel again for not allowing MAN to 'rest on it's laurels'. Competition is healthy.

Offices. I think you're way off the mark with this one. Instead of thinking of Peel as an adversary, try and think of it as what it really is--a business, and a Manchester one at that!
Who would have thought that a mere 'milltowner' <sneer> would have such a portfolio which included the ownership of Liverpool's two most important assets--it's airport and it's waterfront!
With regards to the touted Wirral Waters and Liverpool Waters you can't be seriously drawn into the hype that surrounds these hypothetical 'projects'. From the 'artists impressions' you could easily forgive the scousers for having a little 'sex-wee' at these proposals.
You have to remember that Peel has now found itself sitting on a swath of derelict old dockland on one side and disused shipyards on t'other side of the river. Although it's part of it's 'landbank', in essence it's just an unproductive chunk of 'brownfield' real estate that it would love to offload for the best possible price. The optimum method to market this land is to present a futuristic 'vision' as to the potentiality of these holdings. What better way to go about this than to hire some artists to draw up some fancy renderings of idyllic highrise 'waterside' dwellings and offices. Well produced glossy brochures can work wonders in ensuring top dollar. I'm not saying there's going to be no development over 30 or 50 years but I suspect it will be very piecemeal, and will grow much the same way and at a similar pace as their earlier dockland efforts at the other end of the ship-canal.
The difference being that Salford Quays is a reality and the (approved) Media City is on the cards and will be a very powerful driver of the economy for the whole northwest.

In my own conclusion jerbs, I'm sure MCC has a cordial working relationship with Peel and in no way feels threatened by their investment in Liverpool or wherever else they want to spend their money.

I'm proud of Peel Holdings. They are a Manchester success story.

Long may they continue:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
 

·
Fugly
Joined
·
11,311 Posts
Although it's part of it's 'landbank', in essence it's just an unproductive chunk of 'brownfield' real estate that it would love to offload for the best possible price.
So that is why they paid £750m+ for it two years ago? :lol:
 

·
Mancunian Member
Joined
·
7,184 Posts
Don't forget Salford Forest Park Racecourse and Port Salford on the horizon! :cheers:
 

·
I miss a hot dog
Joined
·
602 Posts
Excellent post Sir Miles. I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Peel are an excellent company. One that played a significant part in transforming Manchester from the deflated shadow of its former self in the early 80's, into the vibrant modern city in which we live today.

I've posted this picture before, but I like the simplistic way it captures the aspirations of Manchester before Peel became a major player.



I just can't accept that the company that swapped the above for media city is any kind of threat to Manchester, quite the inverse in fact. But I guess we a heading into that age old debate of how we define 'Manchester'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
822 Posts
I think there's two important points here Chase.

Firstly, Peel's relationship with Manchester City Council and Manchester. There isn't one. Even though Peel are based a couple of miles from Manchester, they have no investments or interests in the City what so ever. Infact, their agenda, if there is one, is to take business and investment out of Manchester. To my knowledge they haven't ever invested in Manchester either.

Secondly. Peel's plans for Media City, Wirral Waters and the Liverpool Waterfront.
If these three projects become reality and succeed, it could have a devastating longterm business and economic effect on Manchester.
Peel have property interests in the city centre. They bought the Manchester Ship Canal co which includes a lot of land in the city centre. The BBC move is still to Manchester. To everyone outside a few dildos at Salford council, the Quays are Manchester's docklands. It's an area of Manchester that has more space than city centre but is very close to the city centre. It is exactly the same as the move for BBC in Glasgow to their docklands. But to me, media is always more innovative in city centres and not stuck on docklands. BBC made a real mistake build that pathetic shed on the clyde when it could have been part of Glasgow's vibrant city centre. Now the BBC have fucked up again by going for the cheapy option in Manchester's docklands instead of the city centre.

From what I know about media it makes little difference that a big public institution like the BBC will be out of town for the first time - the small independents won't be moving and Granada by all accounts are keeping the old warehouse as offices,their big studio and coronation street set. Independents will almost overwhelming stay in town, because the Quays is too sterile. Have the London media independents moved from Soho to Docklands? Have they bollocks. The BBC could close TV centre down and move to docklands but people wouldn't follow. Docklands whether in Manchester or London are sterile compared to real city centres or business districts. They're ideal for back office stuff only really

Peel has been OK for Manchester & district, but it does seem to want to undermine the city when it comes to its investment in LIverpool. Then again they'll only invest if there's real demand - they can't create it. You could well see the BBC by itself at the Quays for years and Peel just continuing with cheaper back office stuff. IN Liverpool Peel may own the land, but not develop anything for years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,914 Posts
So that is why they paid £750m+ for it two years ago? :lol:
I didn't say all of the docks were out of service bunnyman.

Just most of them. This came with the territory. Along with the 'working' container terminal at Seaforth came a shit-load of disused old dockland. You know and I certainly know (because I worked there) this waterfront covers an enormous area. 750 mil is a bargoon. It's coffee money to Whittaker.

Try and keep up bunny :lol:
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top