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Whichever way you build them, trestle bridges rarely look good, and have a negative impact on the area in which they are built, not in the way a suspension bridge for instance can actually compliment and enhance an area.
okay trestle bridges dont look great
but from what i have seen of the plans for the proposed bridge
it looks, well frankly shit!!

i love the idea of a second bridge but it would seem of more benifit if it where to serve the airport better!
i understand your point about cost and obstruction in the river but there must be away

:)
 

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okay trestle bridges dont look great
but from what i have seen of the plans for the proposed bridge
it looks, well frankly shit!! ...
Trestle bridges are really ugly, but they are cheaper, much much cheaper. Get the Yanks to build it if expertise doesn't exist in Britain to build it for a much lower price than the present proposal. The wider the River the shallower it is and the easier to build a trestle. Speke to Ellesmere Port is a super location.

Since when did looks matter as much as money?
 

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Sadly, when last visible, Peel seems to favour a Dingle alignment for the barrage - which is really bad news not least because it will damage wildlife upstream by eliminating most salinity. For example algae blooms.

A Bootle alignment would give many benefits, not the least of which would be active, intelligent, management of upstream salinity by calming and controlling, but not eliminating, tidal range.

Moreover, a Bootle alignment would be invaluable if the West Antarctic ice sheet avalanches bodily (without melting) into the Southern Ocean as it very well might in the next 50 years. If that happens sea level worldwide will rise by about 20 feet over the course of a mere few days. The Mersey Narrows and the hills give Liverpool a unique chance to be saved where many coastal cities will be inundated. London, of course, is so low lying that it will inevitably go the way of New Orleans, it's only a matter of when (like the earthquake in San Francisco). The Mersey Barrage really really needs to be built at Bootle, not upstream.

To me the ideal barrage alignment would place the Langton River entrance inside, but only just inside, the Barrage.

Don't believe me about the West Antarctic ice sheet? Read the Scientific American article for yourself. http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-unquiet-ice&page=3
Maybe we need to think in those sorts of terms Holly. But a sudden 20' increase in sea levels would cause such worldwide devastation that I doubt that Liverpool would have anywhere to trade with.
 

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Maybe we need to think in those sorts of terms Holly. But a sudden 20' increase in sea levels would cause such worldwide devastation that I doubt that Liverpool would have anywhere to trade with.
Oh, of course there will. Even in a worst case scenario up-river ports like Porto Velho in Brasil and the ports like Chicago on the Great Lakes will remain unaffected.
 

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Urban Vision Handles Mersey Gateway

Builder and Engineer

http://www.builderandengineer.co.uk/news/contracts/urban-vision-handles-mersey-gateway-1790.html

Urban Vision has been commissioned by Halton Borough Council to process planning applications for the proposed £390m Mersey Gateway Bridge project, which will link Liverpool city centre and north Cheshire.

The organisation, which is a joint venture between Salford City Council, Capita Symonds and Morrison Highways Maintenance, will work with Halton Borough Council to ensure planning applications for the bridge and associated highways works are processed in line with timescales.
 

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Plans set for second Mersey crossing

http://www.thisischeshire.co.uk/mos...ewed.plans_set_for_second_mersey_crossing.php

TRAFFIC backed up through Warrington because of closures on the Runcorn Bridge could soon be a thing of the past.

The troubles that can hit motorists travelling through town could be eradicated with the creation of a second crossing over the Mersey.

Now two separate applications have been handed into Halton Council for the proposed mersey Gateway bridge that could offer an easing of congestion in the town if their are problems on one of the bridges in the future.

A six-lane highway costing £390 million will link from the Central Expressway in Runcorn and the Eastern Bypass in Widnes. If the scheme goes ahead as planned work on the development could start in 2011 and cars could be using the crossing by as soon as 2014.

The leader of Halton Council, Councillor Tony McDermott, said: "The new Mersey Gateway crossing will play a vital role in the growing prosperity, not only of Halton but also the wider region. Without the new crossing, road users will eventually have to endure rush-hour congestion all day.

"Doing nothing is not an option and we are delighted to be taking the first major legal step forward with the submission of two planning applications."

More legal submissions on the two schemes are expected in May and a public inquiry in to the plans is expected to take place towards the end of the year.
 

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Urban Vision Handles Mersey Gateway

Builder and Engineer

http://www.builderandengineer.co.uk/news/contracts/urban-vision-handles-mersey-gateway-1790.html

Urban Vision has been commissioned by Halton Borough Council to process planning applications for the proposed £390m Mersey Gateway Bridge project, which will link Liverpool city centre and north Cheshire.

The organisation, which is a joint venture between Salford City Council, Capita Symonds and Morrison Highways Maintenance, will work with Halton Borough Council to ensure planning applications for the bridge and associated highways works are processed in line with timescales.
what the hell has the project got to do with Salford Council?
 

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Plans for new Mersey bridge to go before government
Apr 24 2008 by Nick Coligan, Liverpool Echo

A MULTI-MILLION pound plan to build a second bridge across the River Mersey will be sent to the government shortly.

Councillors last night agreed to apply for crucial legislation to allow the £390m Mersey Gateway to be built between Widnes and Runcorn.

If granted by ministers the Transport and Works Order (TWO) would be the equivalent of the long-awaited project getting planning permission.

Yesterday’s decision by Halton council was another vital milestone in the long-running campaign for a second crossing.

The 47-year-old Silver Jubilee bridge now handles up to 93,000 vehicles a day – more than nine times what it was built for despite being made a dual carriageway in 1977.

If granted by the government the TWO will allow the council to build the bridge, buy up land in its path, make changes to approach roads and set tolls.

Officials are expected to formally submit it next month after the council elections.

Applications to alter the road network in Widnes and Runcorn and change the traffic flow and lay-out on the Silver Jubilee bridge are already in the hands of council planners.

The council started working on the current Mersey Gateway plan in 2000 after the government agreed a new bridge was a priority.
 

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Second Mersey bridge moves a step closer to reality

Liverpool Daily Post


PLANNERS behind the £390m Mersey Gateway bridge will ask the Government for compulsory purchase powers within a fortnight, it was confirmed yesterday.

The announcement marks a significant step forward for the scheme that would see a new six-lane highway stretch across the Mersey within six years.

Halton Borough Council are negotiating with around 70 businesses to buy their property and make way for the bridge. Around 20 square miles needs clearing ahead of construction.

Three towers rising between 120m and 140m will be sunk into the river bed to support the structure. Underneath the 60mph road there will also be space for a light rail track.

Around 50 stakeholders from neighbouring authorities and the private sector attended an update presentation with the Gateway team yesterday.

They were told if the plans fall through, gridlock would seize up the region’s roads.

Cllr Tony McDermott, leader of Halton, said: “Today, the Silver Jubilee Bridge takes almost twice as much peak hour traffic as any of the Mersey Tunnels or the Warrington crossings.

“The disruption and uncertainty that we see when there is a problem with it severely hampers the region’s economy and frustrates businesses, commuters and visitors.

“What we’re providing is an environmentally-friendly solution that will not only transform Halton, but bring relief to people across the region.”

It was confirmed the toll rate for the new bridge would be set at the same level as the Mersey Tunnels – which currently charge £1.40 for regular cars.

This is so drivers are not drawn to one or the other crossing to save money.

Subject to the project meeting certain conditions, the Government is funding £86m of the cost, with the remainder being raised through a combination of private finance and £123m of Private Finance Initiative credits.

Toll revenue, the stakeholders were told, is expected to run to £40m per year.

Steve Nicholson, the project’s director, said no discounts or subsidies had been offered although Cllr McDermott has made a “political commitment“ to residents there would be a “system to alleviate the stress on the borough”.

The existing Runcorn Bridge will revert back to being a crossing primarily for locals. Planners hope to encourage Widnes and Runcorn residents to walk or cycle between the two towns along a dedicated “green corridor”. Public transport will have priority access but drivers will have to pay a toll to cross the road.

The old bridge will be de-linked from the road network and through-traffic will be directed towards the Gateway Bridge.

The A533 Central Expressway and Weston Link will be modified to direct flow from the M56 to the new bridge.

It is hoped the project will act as a regeneration catalyst for five areas across the borough. They are: Widnes’s West Bank, Runcorn Old Town, Astmoor Industrial Estate, Halton Lea and Rocksavage and Clifton.

Current options for the sites include new houses, offices, shops and leisure facilities.

The Mersey Gateway team also unveiled the timetable that should see the Gateway open to traffic by 2014.

Planning applications are already being consulted on after they were submitted to the council in April. Halton will give their formal response to those in the summer.

It is hoped the applications will then go before an eight-week public inquiry before the end of the year, though this could increase depending on the successful outcome of negotiations with land owners.
 

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Thats interesting

Space for a light rail track, and toll charge = £1.40p, no discounts or subsidies (i assume to local users whoever is judged to be a local user)

I wonder how they would judge who is a local user, how far the local area goes, and why they should be exempt from paying a charge/full charge.
 

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The charge being linked to the Mersey tunnel fees sounds like a good move on face value, but I wonder whether it will work out so well? We've recently seen the fuss over the 10p increase in the tunnel tolls. If one route raises the toll, the other will be forced to do the same. This would likely cause more unrest over the charges, especially if the increase is at the behest of the owner of the route that you rarely or never use.

Also, ignoring the fact the tunnels are nowhere near paid off, if a scheme was put forward to remove the tunnel tolls, the fact there would be a toll of the bridge (required to pay off the debt) could well prevent the removal of the tolls. To be honest, I can't see a nominal difference in tolls being a deciding factor in which route to use. You're likely to use whichever route is closest, or more direct relative to your destination. I can't see many people travelling further to the alternative route to save 10p which they'll likely spend in extra fuel anyway.

As for the light rail link, I think that's a good idea. It may never be used but the important thing is it's in place should the need ever arise. Personally if we can ever get the Merseytram off the ground I can see Line 3 to the airport conceivably being extended out to Widnes and Runcorn.
 

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From the Daily Post -

£390m Mersey Gateway’s final design to be revealed



Jun 9 2008 by Laura Sharpe, Liverpool Daily Post

MORE details of the new Mersey Gateway bridge will be revealed today as the £390m project enters a key stage.

The final design of the new bridge and results of lengthy reports into traffic changes and environmental surveys are expected to be announced.

Orders were submitted earlier this week proposing to make the existing Silver Jubilee Bridge a tolled crossing, and the new bridge will also be tolled.

Speaking to the Daily Post ahead of a briefing to release further information about the Mersey Gateway, Cllr Tony McDermott, leader of Halton Borough Council, said the new bridge was a “real stunner”.

Although the toll rates won’t be decided for some time, Cllr McDermott said the price at the Mersey Tunnels would be a base line.

And he stood by his promise that local residents and people using the bridge all the time would be offered discounted crossings.
More here - http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk...s-final-design-to-be-revealed-64375-21043062/

I hope the final design isn't like the one pictured above. That's barely better than a bog-standard motorway bridge.
 

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Full plans for "unique" Mersey Gateway bridge out for public consultation

New Civil Engineer

Plans for a new bridge spanning the river Mersey at Runcorn have today been submitted to the Department for Transport.
The proposals, contained in a set of legal orders, confirm that the project is on track to deliver its main aim - an iconic new bridge with toll levels similar to Mersey Tunnel tolls.

Visible from as far away as the Pennines, and described by the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment (CABE) as a "project of a lifetime for all those involved", the proposed new bridge will be a unique and iconic structure that will be recognised worldwide as a symbol for the north west.

Its features will include:
- a 1,000m long cable stay bridge consisting of four spans supported from three towers in the estuary; - a unique design where the 120m high central tower will be shorter than the two 140 metre high outer towers;
- a total length (including the bridge and approach viaducts) of 2.13km;
- a deck carrying six lanes of traffic (three in each direction) with a speed limit of 60mph;
- a lower deck designed with space for a possible future tram or light rail system;
- up to 30 supporting piers carrying it across the approach viaducts; and
- a curved approach at each end of the bridge giving varying views of its unique design and maximising its visual impact.

Cllr Tony McDermott, Leader of Halton Borough Council and Chair of the Mersey Gateway Executive Board, said: "This is a giant step forward for the new bridge that will give a vital boost to the regional economy, create major regeneration opportunities and bring improved public health, and enhanced social and economic prospects to our area.

"The new bridge will deliver major benefits when it comes to tackling congestion and increasing capacity on the region's roads, but this project has always been about delivering much more than just a new bridge. It gives us an opportunity to transform the public transport network and regenerate large areas of land to help local communities grow and develop."

Consultant Gifford has led the design team. Gifford Partner Ian Hunt said: "This is a unique design that will result in an iconic new bridge that not only meets the needs of the people who drive across it every day, but will also be a stunning piece of engineering that will complement the historical structure of the Silver Jubilee Bridge."

In addition to a new bridge that will become an icon for the region, the impact of the proposals includes:

- more reliable and safer traffic journeys over the River Mersey;
- a flexible tolling strategy designed to secure the best deal for residents, commuters and businesses;
demolition and removal of unnecessary road infrastructure and clearance and regeneration of large areas of land in Widnes and Runcorn to create new opportunities for leisure, housing and office premises;
- a revitalised Silver Jubilee Bridge with traffic levels reduced by 83% featuring a new 'green corridor' with improved public transport, cycling and walking facilities
an overall reduction in CO2 traffic emissions caused by re-routing traffic and reducing congestion;
extra capacity for the region's fragile road network at a crucial bottleneck where it crosses the River Mersey;
- designated areas identified where compulsory purchase powers can be used to buy land required for the project to proceed.

Both the Silver Jubilee Bridge and the Mersey Gateway Bridge will be tolled as part of the project. The tolling mechanism submitted in the orders gives flexibility to the council as it allows it to work with the company that will be appointed to build and operate the new bridge to manage the toll regime. This is to pay for construction and provide the best deal for residents, commuters and businesses through the next 30 years or so (the likely duration of the concessionaire contract) and beyond.

David Parr, Chief Executive of Halton Borough Council, said: "What we're proposing is almost unique in that it is a new road scheme that will actually reduce traffic levels in 2015 and reduce CO2 emissions. The project is in line with local, regional and national policy to tackle congestion at crucial bottlenecks, and we have achieved our aim of delivering a proposal with toll levels that are comparable to other tolled crossings across the river."

There is now a consultation/objection period, which runs until 18 July, where anyone can give their views on the project to the Mersey Gateway Project team, Halton Borough Council and the Department for Transport.
 

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Thats interesting

Space for a light rail track, and toll charge = £1.40p, no discounts or subsidies (i assume to local users whoever is judged to be a local user)

I wonder how they would judge who is a local user, how far the local area goes, and why they should be exempt from paying a charge/full charge.
In Florida they have an RFID device for your car that's called SunPass. AFAIK it works this way. There are express lanes at tollbooths that clock you through, check teh RFIS device against the plate and charge to your credit card. You can only buy a Sunpass if you've proof of residency. The Sunpass tolls are slightly lower than the regular ones but you have to use the toll road pretty frequently to make it worthwhile because they charge for the device.
 

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In Florida they have an RFID device for your car that's called SunPass. AFAIK it works this way. There are express lanes at tollbooths that clock you through, check teh RFIS device against the plate and charge to your credit card. You can only buy a Sunpass if you've proof of residency. The Sunpass tolls are slightly lower than the regular ones but you have to use the toll road pretty frequently to make it worthwhile because they charge for the device.
RFID tagging also allows for the wider monitoring of your movements if the political will to do so is there ... a UK Central Governments wet dream.
 

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Liverpool, England.
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In Florida they have an RFID device for your car that's called SunPass. AFAIK it works this way. There are express lanes at tollbooths that clock you through, check teh RFIS device against the plate and charge to your credit card. You can only buy a Sunpass if you've proof of residency. The Sunpass tolls are slightly lower than the regular ones but you have to use the toll road pretty frequently to make it worthwhile because they charge for the device.
Sounds quite similar to the Fast Tag scheme for regular users of the Mersey Tunnels.
 

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In Florida they have an RFID device for your car that's called SunPass. AFAIK it works this way. There are express lanes at tollbooths that clock you through, check teh RFIS device against the plate and charge to your credit card. You can only buy a Sunpass if you've proof of residency. The Sunpass tolls are slightly lower than the regular ones but you have to use the toll road pretty frequently to make it worthwhile because they charge for the device.
My main problem is in deciding who is local, how far does this local boundary extend from each tunnel entrance, it just sounds like an excuse not to pay to use the tunnel because you are local, as if your local convenience shop, post office, community is at the other end of the tunnel, which is ridiculous, it just defeats the purpose of tolls applied to people who actuall use the tunnels most and cause the most wear and tear, but benefit from their use. Either have tolls or not, and as currently done, offer the Fast Tag scheme for regular users of the Mersey Tunnels, applied to the whole of Merseyside, not just "Locals".
 

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From the Echo -

£2.50 bridge toll for Mersey Gateway car drivers

Jun 10 2008 by Laura Sharpe, Liverpool Echo

THE PROPOSED costs of using the new Mersey Gateway bridge and the existing Silver Jubilee Bridge have been revealed.

Halton council has set toll ranges within which the final prices will be set ahead of 2014 when the new bridge opens.

They range from nothing to a possible £10 and will be the same for both bridges.

The council has also promised to offer discounts over 30 years with £123m of Public Finance Initiative credits helping to keep tolls low.

Class one, mopeds, motorcycles, motor tricycles or quad bikes between £0 – £2.50; class two, cars, light vans and motor caravans between £1 – £2.50; class three, small goods vehicles and coaches £2 – £5; and class four, large goods vehicles and coaches, £4 – £10.

Proposed charges of between £6 – £220 will apply to large and abnormal loads using both bridges.
More here - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...r-mersey-gateway-car-drivers-100252-21049010/

The headline is a little mis-leading as the article does state that the car for cars will be between £1-£2.50. However if it does turn out to be £2.50, surely they will be shooting themselves in the foot? Arguably by then the tunnels will be £1.50/£1.60. So for people who need to cross the river, and the bridges and tunnels are equi-distant, which do you think they're going to use?
 

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From the Echo -



More here - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...r-mersey-gateway-car-drivers-100252-21049010/

The headline is a little mis-leading as the article does state that the car for cars will be between £1-£2.50. However if it does turn out to be £2.50, surely they will be shooting themselves in the foot? Arguably by then the tunnels will be £1.50/£1.60. So for people who need to cross the river, and the bridges and tunnels are equi-distant, which do you think they're going to use?
Everything I have heard so far has inducated that the toll will match the rate charged for the tunnel.
 

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^^

That's what I've seen reported previously too. I just thought it was a little odd that after those reports, it would be suggested that the toll for cars could be up to £2.50 rather than it being confirmed again that the tolls for the tunnels and bridges will be tied.
 
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