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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a question for people in midwestern states with two flagship state universities. Are they equals?

Unsually the original one goes under the name Univ of _____. Traditionally it has had the most prestige, has been heavily into the liberal arts and is home to the state's medical and law schools.

The second one, normally named _____ State University, is often a landgrant institution, had a more equalitarian mission, specialized in fields like agriculture and technology, but has changed radically int he last 50 years to meet the needs of a changing society. Far more than in the past, the mission of the two flagships has become more and more alike; their differences far more muted.

The land-grants were once thought of in a lesser light than the original state universities, but they certainly have elevated their status to now being viewed by many as one of two major flagships.


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I'm interested in folks in the various states below have to say about their state's flagships.

In Kansas: do people see KU and K-State as equals, or does Lawrence dominate? How much has K-State's football success affected the school academically due to its high visibility? Is Witchita and schools like it seen a lot differently?

In Oklahoma: how much is OSU viewed as an equal flagship with OU? Does OU benefit from being in the OkC area? Does OSU have a higher profile in Tulsa due to proximity.

In Iowa: How do you see Iowa and Iowa State....are they joint flagships with Northern Iowa seen as a school on another level? I went to the Univ of Iowa for a year (years ago) and at that time, Iowa dominated the state. The impression I get from inside and outside of Iowa is that UI and ISU are very much peer institutions, very similiar in size and scope and academic respect.

In Indiana: Both IU and Purdue have always had major respect. Purdue began as a university and not a college. And academically their rankings have never shown much difference. I can't imagine IU and Purdue not being viewed as flagships and in a different ball park from Ball and Ind St.

In Michigan: Michigan is unique, in a sense. U-M is an overpowering institutions, a hallmark in American public education with an aura few schools can match. In that sense, it must be tough to be MSU, an outstanding institution that has to battle being in-states with the likes of Ann Arbor. That said, MSU is bigger, tends to be more Michigan oriented in enrollment and mission. No midwestern states has two schools of this size, enormous (and prominent) institutions. How does Michigan view U-M and MSU as equal flagships? Is the pecking order in Michigan actually U-M, MSU, Wayne, others? Does MSU hold its own with U-M despite the magic of A2? Are EMU, CMU, and WMU very much in the shaddow of U-M and MSU?

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Some questions for states with one flagship:

In Ohio: OSU is the flagship but Ohio, the oldest of midwestern states, has something special you don't find in other midwestern states: quality second tier state universities that have outstanding reputations and can come up looking like public ivies. How do Ohioans look at such institutions as Miami (in particular) and Ohio U in relationship with OSU? Are BG and Kent looked at in the same light that Miami is? My sense is that they are not.

In Illinois: UIUC is unquestionably the powerhouse in my state. Nobody competes with it. I'd say the second most academically visual institution would be UIC. I would expect that UIC will close the gap with UIUC in the coming years, perhaps in a similiar way that UCLA did with Cal. How do fellow Illinoisians view the pecking order of our state u's? Will NIU benefit from high tech growth on I-88 and being drawn into the Chicago area? How about ISU and SIU?

In Wisconsin: UW-Madison is unchallenged and all state u's are in the UW System. After UW-Madison, is UWM viewed as the second most prominent state university and does it, like Madison, have any preceived edge over other UW's.

In Minnesota: U of M-Twin Cities dominates like nowhere else. I can't imagine any comparison with other state universities (within and outside the U of M system) to it.

In Missouri: Mizzou is the only flagship. It seems like the other campuses in the Univ of Mo system are in its shaddow. Missourians, seems to me that the SWS name change to Mo St U will not really be a challenge to Columbia...right?

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I appreciate any feedback you folks can give in any (and all) of these states. Thanks.
 

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Cory
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well, despite what many Purdue fans and alums might say, it is obvious that IU gets the most "coverage." Only around Lafayette does Purdue really take center-stage. NOW, this does not mean that IU is a better institution, but, because of all the national titles in basketball and other spotrs programs, IU is covered more by the media. A classic example of sports getting more credit than what really matters, the students.
 

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Well for Michigan and Michigan State the two are so different. Michigan has garnered a reputation for being the better of the two. But, as has been said many times before, both specialize in different things. For instance, if you're going in land-use Urban Planning, MSU would be your choice. If you're going into architecture UofM would be your choice.

One in integrated and is the center of a larger city. One is a suburban-like campus totally separate from it's smaller city. They really are very different in their focuses. And while UofM is known for attracting out-of-state MSU has the biggest study abroad programs in the country, and a large international population.

I know I'm babbling, but at least in Michigan I think that both compete very well on their own, and their is room enough for both universities.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
cwilson758 said:
well, despite what many Purdue fans and alums might say, it is obvious that IU gets the most "coverage." Only around Lafayette does Purdue really take center-stage. NOW, this does not mean that IU is a better institution, but, because of all the national titles in basketball and other spotrs programs, IU is covered more by the media. A classic example of sports getting more credit than what really matters, the students.
always an interesting phenomeninum when you consider in revenue sports, Purdue runs rings around Indiana. Purdue totally dominates in football and in basketball, it is right around or at the top of B10 records over the years. Further, unlike the typical history of dual flagships, it was Purdue, not IU, that was a founding member of the B10.

I do believe on an academic basis, Purdue starting life as a university, not a college, evened the playing field in Indiana. Very few (if any) other land-grant institution so started, other than ones (like Champaign, Madison, etc., that became their states sole flagships). Thus Purdue was a much more major institution at the earlier part of the 20th century, than MSU, which still hadn't gone through its metamorphosis from MAC to MSC to MSU.
 

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Cory
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edsg25-

Purdue is certianly a better football team, BUT not in terms of basketball. As for academics, each school seems to speacialize in differentsubjects, so that info could be interepreted a hundered different ways.
 

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I like your analysis, edsg...

Most downstate Illinoisans would certainly agree in saying that UIUC is the state's powerhouse school, but many of us also (perhaps mistakenly) lump all the Chicago universities together; they are all close to each other and collectively offer an incredibly diverse number of courses, as well as being highly rated and acclaimed in most cases (Northwestern, UIC, etc.).

Oddly enough, when I ask my fellow high school juniors what Illinois school they would most like to attend, the answer is frequently UIC or Northwestern, sometimes Roosevelt, or others. The attitude I find among the more...intellectual members of my class tend to view more opportunities for them at schools in Chicago, and rightly so; many of us (myself included) love the city we live in, but fully intend to move to Chicago to live, and being able to go to a world-class school there is a benefit.
 

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My views of Indiana as a Boilermaker...

I was born in California, but my family has always been from southern Indiana, directly en face de downtown Louisville in a suburb called Clarksville. When I was growing up I even had Indiana Hoosier clothes I would wear to school (so stupid I was as a child, lol) When we moved to Indiana my Freshman year of high school I noticed NOTHING but Indiana Hoosiers gear. I basically never even knew Purdue existed in my own state. It wasn't until I started my college search did I even realize Purdue was located in my state and how big it was. I made trips to see both schools before I decided on which to attend. I eventually broke family tradition and went to Purdue. Even in Indianapolis, there is a serious Indiana bias. Southern Indiana is completely IU territory. Northern Indiana is, in my opinion, more split, with a tilt toward IU even still.

Now, having saidthat, IU is in serious trouble in our state. Purdue seems to be growing at a rate far surpassing that of Indiana. We have raced past IU in academic standing, and our sports are just as well known now as theirs. Purdue seems to be racing forward, and the image of IU is static. I have heard the same thing from Purdue faculty to whom I am close, and my friends at Indiana University. Indiana is a great institution, but Purdue is equally as great and getting better every year. Purdue is under going the most massive building spree in it's history, it is in the middle of the largest fund raising drive in Indiana history, and one of the largest in Big 10 history, and we are on target to surpass our goal ahead of schedule.

Indiana Universoty gets all the glory in our state, but Purdue is the engine thatcould that has blown pastthe Hoosiers and is building a name for itself outside of Indiana...as my advisor told me one day, Go to IU if you want to live in Indiana, go to Purdue if you want to get out of this box.
 

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edsg25 said:
In Wisconsin: UW-Madison is unchallenged and all state u's are in the UW System. After UW-Madison, is UWM viewed as the second most prominent state university and does it, like Madison, have any preceived edge over other UW's.
:laugh:

haha... no.

UWM might be the only other D1 school in the UW system but education wise it doesn't stack up well against about half a dozen of the D2 and D3 UW schools. That has really been apparent to me in my job search. Talking with recruiters who recruit out of the UW system, and other schools in Wisconsin, really don't seem to think as highly of UWM as it does for other UW's.

oh wait! here's a P.S.! I think ANY UW school is a good place to be, even UWM. well... maybe not parkside... :wave:
 

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In Ohio: OSU is the flagship but Ohio, the oldest of midwestern states, has something special you don't find in other midwestern states: quality second tier state universities that have outstanding reputations and can come up looking like public ivies. How do Ohioans look at such institutions as Miami (in particular) and Ohio U in relationship with OSU? Are BG and Kent looked at in the same light that Miami is? My sense is that they are not.

OSU is the clear winner in the flagship department but, as you said, Ohio has a bizzillion first-tier schools (maybe not flagships but certainly first tiered, even if you put them in other states) like Ohio, Bowling Green, Kent, U of Cincinnati, Miami, U of Toledo, U of Dayton, Ohio Northern, Shawnee State, Cleveland State, Wright State, Xavier, etc. We view each school seperately (Ohio is known for hippies/marijuana/parties; Miami is J Crew U...pretentious East Coast snobs; Bowling Green is party; Kent is party; blah blah). We look at all these schools as regional powers, or basically, equal throughout the state. Of course there are "exceptional" schools such as Case Western, Kenyon, Dennison, etc but we don't discuss those schools often (unless from that area).

My personal favorites (besides the school I attend...the flagship) are Dennison, Antioch, Kenyon, Central State/Wilberforce (first private HBCU in the country), and Marietta College (gorgeous).
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
LouisvilleJake said:
My views of Indiana as a Boilermaker...

I was born in California, but my family has always been from southern Indiana, directly en face de downtown Louisville in a suburb called Clarksville. When I was growing up I even had Indiana Hoosier clothes I would wear to school (so stupid I was as a child, lol) When we moved to Indiana my Freshman year of high school I noticed NOTHING but Indiana Hoosiers gear. I basically never even knew Purdue existed in my own state. It wasn't until I started my college search did I even realize Purdue was located in my state and how big it was. I made trips to see both schools before I decided on which to attend. I eventually broke family tradition and went to Purdue. Even in Indianapolis, there is a serious Indiana bias. Southern Indiana is completely IU territory. Northern Indiana is, in my opinion, more split, with a tilt toward IU even still.

Now, having saidthat, IU is in serious trouble in our state. Purdue seems to be growing at a rate far surpassing that of Indiana. We have raced past IU in academic standing, and our sports are just as well known now as theirs. Purdue seems to be racing forward, and the image of IU is static. I have heard the same thing from Purdue faculty to whom I am close, and my friends at Indiana University. Indiana is a great institution, but Purdue is equally as great and getting better every year. Purdue is under going the most massive building spree in it's history, it is in the middle of the largest fund raising drive in Indiana history, and one of the largest in Big 10 history, and we are on target to surpass our goal ahead of schedule.

Indiana Universoty gets all the glory in our state, but Purdue is the engine thatcould that has blown pastthe Hoosiers and is building a name for itself outside of Indiana...as my advisor told me one day, Go to IU if you want to live in Indiana, go to Purdue if you want to get out of this box.
I'd have to agree with a lot of this. Purdue definitely seems to be getting a slightly higher academic rating than IU in the USN&WR rankings. Purdue does come across as a serious academic institution, and incredibly strong in science, engineering, etc. Also, as beautiful as Bloomington is, the Lafayette area, midway between Indy and Chgo, is in much more of a power location within the state.
 

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That's interesting Coldwake. UWM actually has a pretty great reputation in several areas. Depends on what you're going for. Outside of Mad Town the UW schools tend to be strong in different areas...ie Whitewater for Business, UWM for Film, Architecture, Nursing, etc.

I've heard UWM called the Bastard Child of the UW system. Hell, I don't like it, but I always thought that was a bit strong.
 

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Coldwake said:
:laugh:

haha... no.

UWM might be the only other D1 school in the UW system but education wise it doesn't stack up well against about half a dozen of the D2 and D3 UW schools. That has really been apparent to me in my job search. Talking with recruiters who recruit out of the UW system, and other schools in Wisconsin, really don't seem to think as highly of UWM as it does for other UW's.

oh wait! here's a P.S.! I think ANY UW school is a good place to be, even UWM. well... maybe not parkside... :wave:
Actually, UW-GB competes at the D1 level. If I'm not mistaken, UW-Parkside is the only UW school that competes at the D2 level. The other 9 WIAC schools compete at the D3 level. Each has their own staple program they are known for, and I know most are very competitive/difficult in terms of accepting freshman students. Not only are they strong in acedemics, but each is known for athletics as well. UW-La Crosse has won 5 straight national championships in track and field and 17 overall in 25 years. They also have the strongest football program in the system, long recognized as the toughest conference nationwide in D3. Platteville and Stevens Point are known for national championships in basketball. Good schools, but we'll forget to mention Superior.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Badgers77 said:
Madison and Marquette are both highly ranked universities.
True, Badger, but my comparison when i started the thread was about public u's.

it's like in Illinois, there is no question that U of C and NU have a better reputation than U of I, but U of I is supreme among the state schools.
 

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LouisvilleJake & Edsg -

I agree with both of you. Purdue is progressing while iU is just standing around and watching. As far as Lafayette and Bloomington...Lafayette has to be located in the most BORING part of Indiana. It doesn't get any flatter. Bloomington on the other hand, is in one of the best locations. However, Lafayette's economy is probably in the best shape shape outside of Indy. Bloomington, albeit doing well, seems to have factory closings every quarter.
 

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cwilson758 said:
LouisvilleJake & Edsg -

I agree with both of you. Purdue is progressing while iU is just standing around and watching. As far as Lafayette and Bloomington...Lafayette has to be located in the most BORING part of Indiana. It doesn't get any flatter. Bloomington on the other hand, is in one of the best locations. However, Lafayette's economy is probably in the best shape shape outside of Indy. Bloomington, albeit doing well, seems to have factory closings every quarter.
Bloomington is actually doing pretty well now...

Inc. Magazine has named Bloomington one of the best business cities in America.

Bloomington tops all other Indiana cities, coming in at 19. Next is Indianapolis at 102 and Muncie, hard hit with job losses, places dead last on the list at number 274.

Inc. Magazine's main criteria for the ranking focuses on sustained job growth and the lower cost of doing business in smaller cities along with livability. In all cases, they say Bloomington fits the bill.

Business development is clearly evident. Some 1,200 jobs in the life sciences are expected within five years. Companies like Cook Pharmica, Baxter Pharmaceutical and Schulte Corporation are expanding here creating hundreds of jobs.


http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3238586&nav=0Ra7YuOZ
 

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Iowa and Iowa State.

Iowa has better medicine (actually on eo fht ebetter ones in the US.
Iowa State has better engineering and veterinary medicine. It's also larger.

I actually perfer the campus of Iowa... there's a river bisecting it, and the campustown / downtown area is larger than the one at ISU (as well as being far more pedestrian friendly).
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Open Road said:
Iowa and Iowa State.

Iowa has better medicine (actually on eo fht ebetter ones in the US.
Iowa State has better engineering and veterinary medicine. It's also larger.

I actually perfer the campus of Iowa... there's a river bisecting it, and the campustown / downtown area is larger than the one at ISU (as well as being far more pedestrian friendly).
Iowa has the only med school; none at Iowa State.

Iowa is exceedingly strong in the liberal arts and has one of the best writing programs of any university in the nation. not only does the med school have an outstanding reputation; the law school does, as well.

In some respects, the two schools reflect geography in a way that exceeds what you have in many other states: Iowa is in the far eastern part of the state, looks eastward not only due to Big Ten membership, but the vast number of students that head out to Iowa City from Chicago and other places east of the Mississippi. Mid-state ISU looks westward as is pure Big XII.

I'm totally agreement about the campuses, Open Road): Iowa City and UI are a perfect fit. I love the way that the Pentacrest fits into downtown IC, the atmosphere of the ped mall), the hills on both sides of the river.

That said, I would say this: out of many of the states mentioned here, ISU has probably done as well as closing the gap between itself and Iowa in academic prestige and profile within state. In many ways, the two schools are looked at as equals. I would say the one major advantage that Iowa has over Iowa State today is athletic, not academically, realted: Hawkeye football is HUGE in comparison to Cyclone football.
 
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