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The SSVs at their current state are just gray painted RoRo ships with a large helipad and machine guns. Until we get the actual naval gun installed with its hi tech systems, its not that different than the many RoRo ships that ply our seas. Apparently they are not as good as we hope they are, hence why we are now getting two more improved versions. Again, Digong beating PNoy even in that regard... ;)

As for the Frigate, the first bid started May 2013 and the BRP Jose Rizal was launched May 2019. Mali pala ako, it took 6 years, not 5 years, assuming the launch is the milestone. Pero syempre, if delivery to our shores is what count, or delivery of the BRP Antonio Luna, then its even longer than 6 years.
 

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The SSVs at their current state are just gray painted RoRo ships with a large helipad and machine guns. Until we get the actual naval gun installed with its hi tech systems, its not that different than the many RoRo ships that ply our seas. Apparently they are not as good as we hope they are, hence why we are now getting two more improved versions. Again, Digong beating PNoy even in that regard... ;)
The "improved" version is still a roro ship painted in grey with a large helipad and machine guns but this time with extra storage space for ammunition. It still wont have the weapons & sensors we all know that ship needs.



Ps. Last I checked the tender for that fell through. When they restart it again I hope they invite Korean companies in. Right now Korea is building a Makaasar/Tarlac class SSV for the Myanmar navy.
 

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The SSVs at their current state are just gray painted RoRo ships with a large helipad and machine guns. Until we get the actual naval gun installed with its hi tech systems, its not that different than the many RoRo ships that ply our seas.
The SSV are functional enough considering their classification as a landing platform dock. To call it just a gray painted RoRo does not do justice for the efforts of the Philippine Navy to increase its capabilities.
 

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I wonder how MaxDefense and other dilawan Defense arm chair analyst think of the recent news. During PNoy's time, we get three coast guard cutters while during Digong's time, we are actually getting *new* warships (including the Jose Rizal Frigates that the dilawans disowned and call the "Bong Go" frigates). Even the old warships that we get are far better than the Hamiltons.

Its funny that Chismax would rather we get those antiquated Portugese corvettes and continue on procuring old ships for our Navy. While the current AFP are not only procuring as many new warships as they can, as well as old but very powerful ones, but are actually finding ways to get around that tedious procurement law. Even the new ships that PNoy got took half a decade, but how long will we get the new Corvettes from SoKor, probably a lot sooner.

Sorry, I just had to get that one out of my system. Carry on with the informative, non-partisan discussions everyone... :D
If you've been following Maxdefense since 2013, you would have known how the commentary didn't always favor the last admin. While Max suggested the acquisition of stop-gap second hand vessels, he also pushed for the allocation of more resources to fund brand-new assets. Plus there is the blog's community which includes non-filipinos/expats who have valuable inputs on military tech and developments. I still consider it the best Philippine defense blog out there.

Would also like to point out that this whole modernization thing was restarted by a law signed during the previous admin. We are now on Horizon 2 because Horizon 1 happened. The DND and AFP now are basically benefiting from the lessons learned from the past.
 

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The SSVs at their current state are just gray painted RoRo ships with a large helipad and machine guns. Until we get the actual naval gun installed with its hi tech systems, its not that different than the many RoRo ships that ply our seas. Apparently they are not as good as we hope they are, hence why we are now getting two more improved versions. Again, Digong beating PNoy even in that regard... ;)
The TWG was able to improve the tech specs because of the experience that they had with the operational SSVs.

With the failed bid recently, I think we should take a hard look on the requirement to build one in-country. No company will be willing to set up shop / sub-contract in country just to build one ship.

As the saying goes..... "to see is to believe".
 

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If you've been following Maxdefense since 2013, you would have known how the commentary didn't always favor the last admin. While Max suggested the acquisition of stop-gap second hand vessels, he also pushed for the allocation of more resources to fund brand-new assets. Plus there is the blog's community which includes non-filipinos/expats who have valuable inputs on military tech and developments. I still consider it the best Philippine defense blog out there.

Would also like to point out that this whole modernization thing was restarted by a law signed during the previous admin. We are now on Horizon 2 because Horizon 1 happened. The DND and AFP now are basically benefiting from the lessons learned from the past.
Chismax is too partisan to be considered the best defense blog out there. I just wait for information to come out of mainstream media or Janes, not sure why Chismax want to be the "first" all the time, extremely possessive, after all its all ego and the fact that he is SO NEGATIVE on the current admin while he allows "Thank you PNoy" in his Facebook page but ban anybody who says "Thank you Digong" shows what kind of blogger he is.

Some good things may happen in the previous admin but far more better things happened in the admin previous to that, but was cancelled because of childishness and by being manhid. Why anybody would cheer for PNoy in a website that deals with all things he was against is beyond me. At the end of the day, when it comes to the military, whatever PNoy has done in the past, Digong will do better.

As for the new SSVs, I do hope the Koreans get it. Its their overall design to begin with and frankly, they are a far better shipbuilder in the region than anybody else. Frankly, the procurement law should be amended. Like what I said in the infrastructure threads, the current procurement law is "cheapest available crap" but it would be better if its "best that we can afford". Surely we can afford the Korean HHI warships, so why bother having Indian, Indonesian, even American, Russian or European suppliers bid? It just makes the process far longer than what it already has and we need those ships ever since PNoy sent his new "toy" and started all this mess with China. :|
 

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Yes at least for every class always 3 tandems

3 Jacinto class Frigates
3 Rizal class Frigate
3 Pohang class Corvettes
? Cruisers
? Destroyers
? Landing Ships
? Supply Ships
? Hospital Ships
? Radar Ships..


Minimum at least 30 Navy Ships
Is there a plan to get additional 1 Navy ship made in Indonesia? and 1 additional frigate from SK? Coz two were on the process.
Landing ships we do have it already, the research vessel. but how about any plans to get Destroyer?
 

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Is there a plan to get additional 1 Navy ship made in Indonesia? and 1 additional frigate from SK? Coz two were on the process.

Landing ships we do have it already, the research vessel. but how about any plans to get Destroyer?
The 2 follow on orders for the Rizal-class could be Destroyers... What I've read so far is that they're bigger than the Rizal-class... I dunno how many tons bigger though.

On the low end, it can be just improved Rizal-class, on the high end could be a destroyer with the capability of being a command ship
 

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2 rebels, 2 soldiers killed in fresh Samar clash - PNA
Sarwell Meniano | 24 August 2019

Two members of the New People’s Army (NPA) and two soldiers died in a clash in an upland village in Calbayog City on Friday morning.

The gun battle lasted for two hours after soldiers of the 43rd Infantry Battalion chanced upon seven members of the communist terrorist group extorting money and food from residents.

The rebels, who were carrying high-powered firearms, were led by Salvador Nordan under sub-regional committee emporium, according to the military report released Friday night.

Read more...
 

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whatever PNoy has done in the past, Digong will do better

2 Frigates
2 SSV's
3 Hamiltons + their US funded upgrades
8 AAV's
6 MPAC's
2 AW 159's
5 AW 109's + 8 for the PAF


Its still way too premature to say Digong will "do better". Should Pnoy have done better? Definitely but keep in mind the last admin did more for the AFP than the last 3 administrations combined(!!!). The fact is that the current admin is merely continuing the AFP modernization initiative that Pnoy started.



I do hope Duts gets the procurement law revised in his term though.
 

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^^Just to add, the closed projects in various levels of acceptance from Horizon 1;

12 FA-50 (rentry of PH to supersonic jets)
-Munitions; AIM-9L, AGM-65G
5 Medium and Light Lift Cargo Aircraft
2 C-130Ts (with modular radar)
8 Bell 412 EPs
6 Super Tucanos
3 Air Surveillance Radars
8 KKAV7A1
6 MPACs (with one batch installed with missiles)
142 M113A1/2 in various configs
12 ATHOS Artillery
and various smaller projects for PA


Meanwhile, Horizon 2 has just closed the following - with confirmed SARO allotments:

16est. S-70i
1 VVIP Turboprop Aircraft (C295)
1 VVIP Jet Aircraft (G280)
1lot GdP Upgrade
3 GBADS
2 Corvettes (New) - no SARO, but announced by Lorenzana


It's easy to cry out partisanship if they are not on your side, but if you sift through all the political nonsense, a lot of the baby steps that were necessary to upgrade the AFP as whole in terms of knowledge on new systems and make great leaps in capability has been done during Horizon 1. Downplaying the gains made during the last admin is a gross oversimplification of the AFP Modernization H1.

On the current admin, the shopping list is already there, and the sense of urgency has been relayed, but anyone can simply see how things are moving.
 

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Why call the new ship corvette if it will be using the HDF2600 platform or a modified version of it which is a frigate on the PN classification? But this is a very welcome development nonetheless.
The platform doesn't matter - the PN has shown multiple times that classification of a ship need not be reflective of what a ship actually is. As long as the hull is from a proven and tested design.

What matters is capability, which in this case would be the radars, sensors, EW, weapons. Naming and classification in the PN feels more like a guide, rather than anything else.
 

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2 Frigates
2 SSV's
3 Hamiltons + their US funded upgrades
8 AAV's
6 MPAC's
2 AW 159's
5 AW 109's + 8 for the PAF


Its still way too premature to say Digong will "do better". Should Pnoy have done better? Definitely but keep in mind the last admin did more for the AFP than the last 3 administrations combined(!!!). The fact is that the current admin is merely continuing the AFP modernization initiative that Pnoy started.



I do hope Duts gets the procurement law revised in his term though.
The Frigates are now creditted to Digong, as per the Dilawans as they have disowned it to score political points. Ironically, it ended up with a Senatorial victory for the guy they were trying to bring down. Any military initiative done since 2016, including the new powerful Corvettes, the OPVs, MRF, and the Pohangs are strictly Digong anyway. Don't even get me started on the PNP stuff...Hilux vs Mahindras...nuff said.

And "merely" continuing is the keyword here as that is an accomplishment in itself. There were many awesome programs during PGMA that were discontinued because of PNoy. The Common Station, MRT7, LRT2 East Extension, North Rail, Flood Projects, the subways, and so on. The fact that Digong did not CANCEL any good programs started during the PNoy admin is a credit to him.

The only thing PNoy did for the Military that he alone should be creditted for is start the WPS issue by sending that tired, antiquated BRP Goyo on a civilian matter. I guess if you are a military fan, increasing military tension is good for you since it would mean increase in defense spending and arms built up. :|
 

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The SSVs at their current state are just gray painted RoRo ships with a large helipad and machine guns. Until we get the actual naval gun installed with its hi tech systems, its not that different than the many RoRo ships that ply our seas. Apparently they are not as good as we hope they are, hence why we are now getting two more improved versions. Again, Digong beating PNoy even in that regard... ;)

As for the Frigate, the first bid started May 2013 and the BRP Jose Rizal was launched May 2019. Mali pala ako, it took 6 years, not 5 years, assuming the launch is the milestone. Pero syempre, if delivery to our shores is what count, or delivery of the BRP Antonio Luna, then its even longer than 6 years.
In actuality, there are problems in the SSV design that are beyond weaponry, and with the budget provided for the second batch of SSVs - it doesn't look like there would be any changes to that. But I digress.

Complaining about partisanship... but doing the same... I digress again.

On the third point, below was the timeline:
-2012 PH delegation evaluated the Maestrale and Soldati frigates
-2013 The deal supposedly for Php12B fell through
-2015 Decision memorandum by DND was released to bid for 2 Frigates for Php18B
-2016 NOA released in favor of HHI
-2017 to 2019 construction, with expected 2019-2020 delivery

It so easy to over simply how the entire process went, but if you can go through all 136 pages of special bid bulletins, you'd understand that PN is practically coming from ships without any sort of sophisticated radar, sonar, missile and EW capability - jumping head on to getting the JRCF.


A lot of comments here really confirms the Dunning–Kruger effect.
 

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The Frigates are now creditted to Digong, as per the Dilawans as they have disowned it to score political points.
Outside of the political bruhaha, why does the credit go the the current admin? What did they actually do? Sign the NOA and then they get full credit? :eek:hno:

If that's your line of thinking, then this discussion is more for political gains than a discussion of evaluating AFPs gains the past decade.
 

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^^ Umm....signing the NOA is the single most important thing when procuring something. You can have all the processs done but at the end of the day, without the NOA, NOTHING HAPPENS. Kung hindi nag sign ng NOA, magkakaron ba tayong Frigates ngayon???

I don't hide the fact that I am partisan, I am even proud of that. After all, this very forum is DDS, not Dilawan because infrastructure is one of its primary interest. Its core topic is not even the military, this thread exists as a healthy diversion but it can be permanently closed at a whim if we feel like it. Just remember that.
 
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