[sponge_bob]

2 further referenda were in the pipeline before we voted on friday, it was intended that we voted on them along with a presidential election later this year.

The 2 referenda are for the removal of sanction against blasphemy from the constitution and on the mother in the home clause.

And then someone made a useful suggestion which could be put in place of the first bit to be removed (by a separate ballot at the same time)

https://www.irishexaminer.com/break...housing-to-tackle-homeless-crisis-845528.html

Calls for constitutional right to housing to tackle homeless crisis

Now I am very much minded to agree with these calls but to word it as a constitutional right to shelter rather than a right to a home.

The clauses are

1.

The Family
Article 41
1. 1° The State recognises the Family as the natural primary and
fundamental unit group of Society, and as a moral institution
possessing inalienable and imprescriptible rights, antecedent
and superior to all positive law.
2° The State, therefore, guarantees to protect the
Family in its constitution and authority, as the necessary
basis of social order and as indispensable to the welfare
of the Nation and the State.
2. 1° In particular, the State recognises that by her life within
the home, woman gives to the State a support without which
the common good cannot be achieved.
2° The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that
mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to
engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the
home.

The vote will be to remove article 41.2 or 41.2.2 (*the bit in italics) in full. This could be replaced with a right to shelter for the family in the same position.

2.

The other referendum is on this bit.

6. 1° The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the
following rights, subject to public order and morality:

i. The right of the citizens to express freely their
convictions and opinions.
The education of public opinion being,
however, a matter of such grave import to
the common good, the State shall
endeavour to ensure that organs of public
opinion, such as the radio, the press, the
cinema, while preserving their rightful
liberty of expression, including criticism of
Government policy, shall not be used to
undermine public order or morality or the
authority of the State.
The publication or utterance of
blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter
is an offence which shall be punishable in
accordance with law.

Personally I would remove all of the bit in italics but perhaps only the last sentence is up for a vote.

The italicised remainder does not recognise that social media is as big as the press ever was in 1936, never mentions Television which did exist back then, and WTF does "undermine" "morality" mean anyway.

 

[Wilderbeast]

Agree to ditch the blasphemy nonsense. And the mother thingy but it would certainly need to be replaced by some accommodation rights.

 

[sponge_bob]

I am also minded to remove the idea that the state is the guarantor of "public order and morality" meaning 'public morality' of some sort . Public Order alone is good enough for me as that is what a state should guarantee if it is in any way functional.

But I do believe the constitution should contain a right to shelter and the state should be the provider of last resort....not the Simon Community or the Capuchin Friars or Fr Peter McVerry even if they are the ones contracted to deliver this right on behalf of the state in some cases.

 

[Lilzehhho]

Isn't there a plebiscite on directly elected mayors in Dublin and Cork too?

 

[sponge_bob]

Isn't their a plebiscite on directly elected mayors in Dublin and Cork too?

It would be a good idea to have that too seeing as the local elections are this time next year.

When the Dublin mayor thing was put to a local authority level vote around 2013 only Fingal voted no. They said the mayor would "not turn left at the airport" they did.

 

[Oriel]

The Family
Article 41
1. 1° The State recognises the Family as the natural primary and
fundamental unit group of Society, and as a moral institution
possessing inalienable and imprescriptible rights, antecedent
and superior to all positive law.
2° The State, therefore, guarantees to protect the
Family in its constitution and authority, as the necessary
basis of social order and as indispensable to the welfare
of the Nation and the State.
2. 1° In particular, the State recognises that by her life within
the home, woman gives to the State a support without which
the common good cannot be achieved.
2° The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that
mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to
engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the
home.

Aren't the State technically in violation of this constitutional article since all "mothers" are not in fact being provided for economically through welfare?

The whole of Article 41 is a load of shite of course.

 

[sponge_bob]

Aren't the State technically in violation of this constitutional article since all "mothers" are not in fact being provided for economically through welfare?

The whole of Article 41 is a load of shite of course.

Well that's why we now have universal childrens allowance and if you remove all of Art 41 as is you can bring in means tested childrens allowance instead.

I would rather replace Art 41 with a universal right to shelter, no mention of families at all but I think that is not proposed right now, and possibly only excising 41.2.2 is on the cards.

 

[suasion]

While not perfect, they certainly are steps in the right direction..

The major hurdle I can see is that people are not going to be very motivated to vote in these things, but I would expect to see another onslaught by American evangelical funded bots against repealing the two clauses.

Heres an interesting thread on twitter about it.

https://twitter.com/ArtimusFoul/status/1000701354204069888

More
Thread on @repeal_shield & #repealthe8th & trolls, I've not a chance to talk properly about @Hazel_ok's, work breaking down our blocklist data. & I want to talk about some of the pieces & comments people have made about SM & the #8thref result. #Together4Yes #RepealedThe8th

4:32 AM - 27 May 2018

.

 

[Wilderbeast]

I would expect to see another onslaught by American evangelical funded bots against repealing the two clauses.

Heres an interesting thread on twitter about it.

Compared to the "gatekeepers" of the corporate msm the influence of bots is highly exaggerated.

They are merely a much needed corrective to the manufacturing of consent.

 

[celtcia]

BOI hand over and the railings lol?

 

[sponge_bob]

BOI hand over and the railings lol?

What referendum is that?

 

[Lilzehhho]

It would be a good idea to have that too seeing as the local elections are this time next year.

When the Dublin mayor thing was put to a local authority level vote around 2013 only Fingal voted no. They said the mayor would "not turn left at the airport" they did.

It seems like it is happening, hopefully it could be lumped in with the October referendums

Plebiscites are scheduled to be held in both cities after one of the options is settled on, creating the possibility of mayoral elections in Dublin and Cork during the local and European elections in May 2019.

Dublin and Cork to vote on directly-elected mayors

At its meeting of 26 September 2017, the Government agreed, as part of an indicative schedule for a number of referendums over the next 18 months, that a plebiscite on directly elected mayors would take place in October 2018. My Department is prioritising the drafting of the legislation required to give effect to this decision and it is included in the Government's legislation programme as a Bill to be published in the first half of this year.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2018-01-31/71/

 

[sponge_bob]

If that plebiscite is bundled with the 2 referenda on Blasphemy and Women in the home it will help get those heathen urbanites out to vote if there is no presidential election in the end.

As Dublin and Cork have the highest homelessness problems bundle a right to shelter referendum in there with the mayoral elections , IE along with the locals and euros.

Repealing all of Article 41 in 2018 would therefore leave a slot handy for a Right to Shelter referendum in 2019.

 

[Dvblvnia]

I'm looking forward to them as they are a tidy earner. I'd recommend everyone check their local authority and see if they can be added as presiding officer/poll clerk. Presiding officers go off for a day's training session and poll clerks just turn up before polling stations open at 7:00am to set them up. You get almost €300 for marking people's names off the register as they turn up to vote and take their polling cards.

 

[Wilderbeast]

I'm looking forward to them as they are a tidy earner. I'd recommend everyone check their local authority and see if they can be added as presiding officer/poll clerk. Presiding officers go off for a day's training session and poll clerks just turn up before polling stations open at 7:00am to set them up. You get almost €300 for marking people's names off the register as they turn up to vote and take their polling cards.

Been there, done that, don't knock it

Beats the heck out of Bertie's computers in terms of trust and transparency.

Looking back on it he was either mendacious or incredibly naive in the days before "the Russians" started messing with the machines.

 

[odlum833]

The question on women in the home has been leaked.



Do you agree that a woman's point of view is the kitchen window?

Tá/Yes
Níl/No

 

[Oriel]

^^^^

Not surprising to see a FFailer treating women's rights as a big joke. But sure, wasn't it the Solders who drew up all that medievil crap to begin with back in '38?

 

[Wilderbeast]

^^^^

Not surprising to see a FFailer treating women's rights as a big joke. But sure, wasn't it the Solders who drew up all that medievil crap to begin with back in '38?

Indeed..but it was the Russian solderers surely? After all Stalin was around than and he even named himself after a metal.....

 

[Dvblvnia]

Been there, done that, don't knock it

Beats the heck out of Bertie's computers in terms of trust and transparency.

Looking back on it he was either mendacious or incredibly naive in the days before "the Russians" started messing with the machines.

Absolutely Wilderbeest - it's a great way to pay for air fares, rent, weekly shopping etc.



We probably will see a referendum on a woman's place in the home even though that clause has been used to justify maternity leave payments to women.



It does sound fairly archaic in 2018 but legally it has had some benefits for women like the maternity leave benefits I touched on above. The government will probably come up with some sort of formulation which side

steps this and makes the parents' role in the home gender neutral.



I'd say such an amendment will have the widespread support of Irish society and will pass 80/20.

 

[Sukino]

Additional opportunity to get rid of religion-inspired persecution.