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Since that other Ohio thread was so much fun....

Ohio has three other big metro areas, bigger than the largest metros in some other states, and big enough to be the second largest metros in yet other states (based on 2004 MSA estimates)

Dayton, at 845,646, larger than than Omaha and Albuquerque and Albany

Akron, at 702,079, larger than Columbia, SC

Toledo, at 658,266, larger than Wichita, Little Rock, Des Moines, Portland Maine, and Boise

Just to give you an idea that we are not talking about some smaller metro area like, say, Green Bay or Flint or Peoria. The second string of metros in Ohio are themselves fairly signifigant in size.

Which one of these is more important?....Akron has Goodrich and is moving into polymer R&D, Toledo has two corporate HQs for glass companies..Owens-Corning and Owens-Illinois, and Dayton has NCR and Lexis -Nexis, is one of the top centers for precision machining, and is a node in the military/industrial complex.

I'd say Dayton, becuase it is the largest and due to its role in the defense world...this gives the place national and even international signifigance. To illustrate: Dayton is not a hub airport, but still as direct airline connections to Washington National, not for from the Pentagon...
 

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I like Dayton. I went to the Dayton Art Institute a couple years ago for an art show, and I really, really liked it. It is greatly underapprecaited just like the Columbus Musueum of Art and the Toledo Art Museum. I have never been to Toledo or Akron, but they seem like places worth visiting for a day or two or three.

You're right about that other thread. Maybe it should change its name to the "two most important cities in Ohio." I'm just glad that Columbus didn't get caught up in all of that. But, its fun nevertheless to watch them battle it out.

Just my two cents
 

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Dayton and Toledo are so different yet its hard to put one over the other in many categories, they both have a strong identity. Dayton being the birthplace of aviation obviously makes it an extremely important city not only in Ohio but nationally, although Toledo revolutionized the glass industry. In terms of sheer importance it would be Dayton but if this is about which city is better overall Id give a silght edge to Toledo only because being by the water gives it alot more potiential for interesting riverfront development.

I had always grouped Akron with Cleveland, Im not sure if the Akronites do the same. I havent been to Akron yet but a relative of mine just recently moved in the area and likes it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The thing about Akron is that it is suprsingly hilly, and that there is a lake smack dab in the middle of the city.

They did a pretty good job of inserting their minor-league ballbark into downtown, too...
 

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Akron is the most underrated out of the three.

Dayton wins this one, due to the largest non-C GMP/GDP/GNP in the state, the larger metro (the only one that is over 1 million), biggest airport, most urban neighborhoods (Oregon District and St. Anne's alone...), government defense, "big city feel" (though Akron and Toledo both have "biggish" city feels as well), importance in history, etc.

Generally, it goes by:

*. Three C Battle of Terror
1. Dayton
2. Toledo
3. Akron
4. Youngstown
 

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If we're going just by city, then it's clearly Toledo since it's over 300,000 people and is in a very city-centric metropolitan area (meaning not many pro-suburban people). Toledo central city actually might be growing according to some recent census estimates. That cannot be said about other Ohio cities.

Based on metro size, you can argue Dayton because it's a little larger than Toledo or Akron. Dayton has far more suburbs/exurbs than Toledo. Akron has a lot of suburbs, but you can always argue the "Cleveland" thing there.

Culturally, Toledo hands down. The art musuem and zoo are on par with cities four or five times its size. It has some cultural institutions that Dayton and Akron can't even touch. Toledo is still arguably more "hub city" than Akron or Dayton, though it obviously is influenced by Detroit. All three cities play the role of "little bitch" however- Detroledo, Cinday, Cleveron.

As far as the corporate world goes...hmmm a toss-up between Akron and Toledo. Dayton has lost a lot of business influence (not to say Toledo hasn't, but just it was bigger to begin with). Akron I believe has the most Fortune companies of the three metros, though I could be wrong...

I'm pretty sure Toledo has the largest CBD of the three cities though.

Dayton and Toledo are so different yet its hard to put one over the other in many categories, they both have a strong identity

They are incredibly different for only being three hours apart- culturally, racially, ethnically, geographically, etc. Toledo is a cross between New Orleans (the swamps, bayous, and shotgun housing), Ann Arbor (liberalism), and Detroit (ghetto, industrial, and Arab culture).

Dayton is a flatter Cincinnati (Southern, African-American, and Appalachian culture) with some nice northern, blue collar grit thrown in.

Toledo has the cultural and racial diversity of much larger metropolitan areas. Most recent census estimates:

Toledo
Population: 305,652 (2004)
White: 67.3%
Black: 24.6%
Asian: 1.5%
Other Race: 3.5%
Two or more races: 3.0%
Hispanic/Latino: 6.8%
keep in mind, these leave out Toledo's large Arab population, for which the census does not measure.

Dayton
Population: 166,179 (2000)
White: 53.4%
Black: 43.1%
Asian: 0.6%
Other Race: 0.7%
Two or more Races: 1.8%
Hispanic/Latino: 1.6%

Akron
Population: 217,074 (2000)
White: 67.2%
Black: 28.5%
Asian: 1.5%
Other Race: 0.4%
Two or more Races: 2.1%
Hispanic/Latino: 1.2%

http://factfinder.census.gov/servle..._name=null&reg=null:null&_keyword=&_industry=
 

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the larger metro (the only one that is over 1 million)

let's please use MSA here since Akron is part of this discussion. So, Jeff's original numbers are right. Dayton is 850,000.

Dayton wins this one, due to the largest non-C GMP/GDP/GNP in the state, the larger metro

interesting how in the other thread, many of us wanted to avoid using size, but suddenly in this one, it's the tell-all....
By this standard, Cleveland is clearly the most important city in Ohio. :)

"big city feel"


oh Jesus, Toledo is every bit as "big city" as Dayton. The downtowns are practically the same. Akron is perhaps less big city though...

All you need to do to judge how "big city" or "urban" a city is/was is to look at its size prior to WW2. Toledo was the largest of the three cities and since it is one of the most intact cities in Ohio, it certainly is as "big city" as Dayton. BTW, this works for much larger cities too- like Houston, Phoenix, and other such sprawholes. Houston was the size of Toledo pre-WW2.

Toledo is far more intact than Dayton too, which adds to its big city feel if you ask me. Dayton is king of the urban prarie...half of Dayton is almost as bombed out as Detroit. Most of Dayton's "big-city feel" is long gone. The same can be said about much of Ohio...

This thread is like the battle of three little bitches trying to hold onto their weakening identity...perhaps they should just give up and reside to being "Detroit" or "Cincinnati" or "Cleveland." It's going to eventually end up like this either way thanks to good ol' American sprawl.
 

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I'd say Dayton, becuase it is the largest and due to its role in the defense world...this gives the place national and even international signifigance.

Toledo certainly has the same level of international recognition as Dayton. Akron might too.

Why do I say this? Because the three cities have virtually NO INTERNATIONAL recognition (they barely crack the national radar). If you ask the average person in London...well not London, since it's a glass city like Toledo and has Pilkington...

All right, ask the average person in Germany what state Toledo, Dayton, or Akron are in, and most will look perplexed. Hell, the Three C's are barely on the international radar...
 

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Toledo has two corporate HQs for glass companies..Owens-Corning and Owens-Illinois

While Toledo is certainly the Glass City (you forgot Libbey btw), it's interesting how people ignore its title as "Auto Parts Capitol of the World." Dana is one of the largest corporations in Ohio and the largest in Toledo.

Toledo also plays the role of "Little Chicago" when it comes to rail and agribusinees. The massive of presence of Andersons and Cargill says enough.
 

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Oy, where to begin...

If we're going just by city, then it's clearly Toledo since it's over 300,000 people and is in a very city-centric metropolitan area (meaning not many pro-suburban people). Toledo central city actually might be growing according to some recent census estimates. That cannot be said about other Ohio cities.

Half of Toledo might as well be Kettering or Stow. So sorry, it isn't really "city-centric" if half the city is suburban (re: Columbus).

Based on metro size, you can argue Dayton because it's a little larger than Toledo or Akron. Dayton has far more suburbs/exurbs than Toledo. Akron has a lot of suburbs, but you can always argue the "Cleveland" thing there.

More suburbs = larger metropolitan area. Sure, it's sprawly, but what metro area that is large (over a million) isn't sprawly?

Culturally, Toledo hands down. The art musuem and zoo are on par with cities four or five times its size. It has some cultural institutions that Dayton and Akron can't even touch. Toledo is still more "hub city" than Akron or Dayton, though it obviously is influenced by Detroit somewhat. All three play the role of "little bitch" though. Detroit-Toledo, Cincinnati-Dayton, Cleveland-Akron.

Culturally, all three are vastly different. Arguing midsized cities' cultures is like arguing what old building in Brooklyn is significant along Atlantic Avenue. Meaning, pointless. Arguing peddling statistics is utterly insignificant, statistically. Basically, Dayton, Toledo, and Akron are generally Black/White city/metros, with a sprinkling of certain ethnic groups per metro. Dayton has Puerto Ricans; Toledo has Mexicans and Arabs; Akron has whatever. Dayton, keep in mind, is more of a "hub city" due to it extending into a region (the Miami Valley) that is more populated than Northwest Ohio to begin with. So no, Toledo is not more "hub" than Dayton. Though the "little bitch" comment is correct.

As far as the corporate world goes...hmmm a toss-up between Akron and Toledo. Dayton has lost a lot of business influence (not to say Toledo hasn't, but just it was bigger to begin with). Akron I believe has the most Fortune companies of the three metros, though I could be wrong...

Fortune 500-wise, Akron wins. Overall, Dayton, due to having the largest job-force outside of the Three-C's.

Toledo is a cross between New Orleans (the swamps, bayous, and shotgun housing), Ann Arbor, and Detroit while Dayton is a flatter Cincinnati with some nice blue collar grit thrown in.

Hardly. There is no "Ann Arbor" nor "New Orleans" in Toledo. It is typical Great Lakes city, newish (by Ohio standards), and is reminiscent of Buffalo and Detroit. Dayton is a hybrid city, with various styles of architecture in sector of the city (torn down or not) due to the history (canal, etc) of the city. If anything, that population stat you showed shows how "white" Toledo-city really is (and I suppose Akron).

let's please use MSA here since Akron is part of this discussion. So, Jeff's original numbers are right. Dayton is 850,000.

That's fine. So Toledo is what, 600,000? Still smaller than Akron, right?

interesting how in the other thread, many of us wanted to avoid using size, but suddenly in this one, it's the tell-all....
By this standard, Cleveland is clearly the most important city in Ohio.


I never said Cleveland wasn't the most important city in Ohio. That doesn't correlate to "best." But I DID point out that Dayton IS more important, etc than Toledo and Akron, by most statistics.

All you need to do to judge how "big city" or "urban" a city is/was is to look at its size prior to WW2. Toledo was the largest of the three cities and since it is one of the most intact cities in Ohio, it certainly is as "big city" as Dayton. BTW, this works for much larger cities too- like Houston, Phoenix, and other such sprawholes. Houston was the size of Toledo pre-WW2.

It also annexed like Houston and Phoenix. Toledo, at the time, might as well have been a "sprawl hole." Though I can't lie and say Akron didn't expand and annex itself into 1940's sprawl, because it did. Dayton only annexed watersheds for maintenance and such, as the city itself couldn't have annexed its established neighbors, even if it wanted to.

Toledo is far more intact than Dayton too, which adds to its big city feel if you ask me. Dayton is king of the urban prarie...half of Dayton is almost as bombed out as Detroit. Most of Dayton's "big-city feel" is long gone. The same can be said about much of Ohio...

TOLEDO ISN'T BOMBED OUT!?? Lil' Detroit? This is one of those "Pot, Meet Kettle" answers which I don't even have to discuss. Again, Dayton has more of a bigger city feel than Toledo.

yeah, cuz we all love love George Bush on these urban boards.

Yes, because the government sector is SUCH a bad thing! I mean, Jesus, why on earth would anybody want to rely on a dependable job like the govenment?!? We could be working in Jeep factories and a glass headquarters in Perrysburg.

Toledo certainly has the same level of international recognition as Dayton. Akron might too.

Why do I say this? Because the three cities have virtually NO INTERNATIONAL recognition (they barely crack the national radar). If you ask the average person in London...well not London, since it's a glass city like Toledo and has Pilkington...

All right, ask the average person in Germany what state Toledo, Dayton, or Akron are in, and most will look perplexed. Hell, the Three C's are barely on the international radar...


Notice how the poster said "national significance." Dayton certainly has more "national significance" than Toledo or Akron (Ahem, the airplane thing, defense, larger economy, blah blah). Though Akron is probably #5, due to the Fortune 500, larger metro than Toledo, higher GDP, etc. But Toledo could always battle with Youngstown...it'd be a more fair fight...



Oy. We need Akron representation on here.
 

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If anything, that population stat you showed shows how "white" Toledo-city really is

Well, the difference is that Toledo's "white stat" can include Latinos, Arabs, and mixed-race. So it's not that white.

That's fine. So Toledo is what, 600,000?

playing with numbers again: 660,000.

Half of Toledo might as well be Kettering or Stow. So sorry, it isn't really "city-centric" if half the city is suburban (re: Columbus).


Look up the stats yourself. In 1950, Toledo was 38 SQUARE MILES with over 300,000 people! Compare that to Dayton and Akron at that time.

This is pre-annex, pre-suburb boom. Toledo was incredibly built up, much like Dayton was.
 

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And Dayton's nor Akron's nor Topeka's nor Rockford's can't be *insert somewhat ethnic group here*?

How silly. They would tell you that Latinos (which the majority of Toledo's IS Mexican) are their own seperate group.

And whoops! Damnit! I forgot that extra 60,000! Damn damn sorry for forgetting you, Sylvania Township!
 

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Pilliod Njaim said:
Look up the stats yourself. In 1950, Toledo was 38 SQUARE MILES with over 300,000 people! Compare that to Dayton and Akron at that time.

This is pre-annex, pre-suburb boom. Toledo was incredibly built up, much like Dayton was.
You do realize that the 1950's "boom" wasn't exactly great architecture nor urbanistic. Hell, Phoenix and Los Angeles also boomed in the 1950's in little square milages. I'm sure San Fernando is a wonderful urban center...
 

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Toledo
Asian: 1.5%

Beavercreek
Asian: 3.5%

Thus, Beavercreek is more Asian-cultured than Toledo. Thus, Beavercreek wins again.
 
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